This might be a good place to mention once again my point that heavily regulated industries do a great job of siphoning off money from the practitioners, making the service cost more, and seeing to it that there are fewer service providers to choose from, but what they don’t do is guarantee better quality service.
I have DIY distance learners I have taught to do better quality work than this.
One thing I will say about the goal of riding the razor’s edge between effective treatment that is still comfortable/tolerable for the client, one does not get so reliant on the pain management side that one neglects the treatment side.
I did see the blue tube when I searched further on my own on YouTube, but that is not the link in your post, James. . I will have to look for it again and try to post it here. Hope I can find it. This level of numbing scares me because the client can’t sound the alarm that it hurts beyond what is tolerable. The client’s voice, telling us what level of pain they feel is our gauge, but watching the skin reaction is enough feedback in these video’s.
Sorry to belabor the point, but this is the kind of stuff that causes dermatologists to NOT recommend electrolysis to their patients because it scars the skin. We do a lot of explaining and defending because untrained people are doing electrolysis.
True statements all. Paraphrasing here: “Working with local anesthetic, or no sensation at all, can get electrologists in trouble.”
The point is well taken. With local anesthetic, ALL “treatment indicators” disappear: it’s like flying an airplane on instruments. You are “in the dark,” and you see nothing happening on the skin. You have no “feedback” from the patient. Yes, “pain” is “patient feedback.”
At this point, the electrologist has to be absolutely split-second perfect in all treatment parameters and follow only what she has learned in the past. It is WAY too easy to “push” a treatment and forget what you know (this almost always happens). This is NOT for beginners or people who were not specifically trained to work on skin that “delivers no sensation.”
I have seen this over-and-over where an electrologist gets an area “frozen” (usually the upper lip, from a dentist) and then makes a mess of it. From that one experience, the electrologist (or patient) concludes that local is dangerous. Simply not true! (Actually it’s the electrolysis that can be “dangerous.” Local anesthetic, by itself, is not!)
We agree again Michael. I wish that some of the Hairtell users, (zaphairzap, for example) say whether there was any difference in treatment regarding her underarms, or arms, or thighs. One of her axillas was made with absolutely no anesthesia (either topical or local), and the another one with local, was there any difference in the reaction of the skin?
Josefa, last month, my daughter used LMX 5% on her right underarm and nothing on her left underarm. I used MultiPlex with the PicoFlash turned off and my percentage was well above 12%. She was comfortable on the side that had no numbing, but when I started the side with numbing that had been absorbing for an hour, she was very uncomfortable. I didn’t change the levels and I was using a 4.5 medium Laurier. So, I went to a pulsing PicoFlash and she did a little better.
The only thing I could deduce was, the extra moisture from the cream filled the follicle and caused the good levels I used on the other underarm, to feel more intense. I totally didn’t expect this. The cream was a new 5 Gram size and it had not expired. I thought an hour of occlusion would be long enough for it to travel to the bottom of the follicle, but maybe it should have been left on for two hours? What do you think?
Another client came to my office with EMLA on her Left underarm. It took the edge off and it was better for her as opposed to the first clearance for the right underarm the day before, when she had no numbing.
For both, the skin reaction was superb. No discernible difference.
I am not against numbing, but first, I do like to encourage my clients to give me a chance to work on an area without numbing and I do everything I can to find acceptable levels and strategies to spare them the expense and mess of using numbing creams.
That is a very interesting observation,Dee and i await Josefas’ response keenly. As for the French video, I have been too stunned to comment for days. The scariest part for me is that he is obviously very proud of his “skills”.
OMG OOOUUUUCCH!! I cannot believe what I just watched.I nearly passed out.I really feel sorry for the client. I hope Micheals’ email makes him realise his skills are nothing to be proud of. Maybe you should suggest he watches one of the videos Josefa has on you tube.
It is difficult to give an explanation of what happened in the case of your daughter, Dee, but I will say that I have noticed several things during the many hours I’ve worked under the application of EMLA, or other topical anesthetic that contains an creamy excipient. You’re right, immediately after removing the occlusion, the conductivity is higher, but I think not for the extra moisture, but because the skin is softened. In these cases, one should be more careful than usual, especially in the treatment of multiple follicles close together as in fingers and toes. Why I think it is not a matter of moisture? because after a few minutes the skin be dry again, I would say even more than before application of EMLA. Again why? Perhaps this is the explanation: Some skins are very sensitive to Emla, and the result is that if the application time exceeds one hour, or an hour and a half, skin burning. This is a very superficial burn (mild redness that lasts a few hours) but enough to dehydrate and irritate the skin. It is likely that this irritation contribute to the individual to be more sensitive to Electrolysis (Much itching and stinging). (I will upload some pictures to illustrate this side effect).
My recommendation for electrologists is wash the area thoroughly after treatment to prevent lidocaine crystals continue irritating the skin after treatment.
Moreover, if the time exceeds the required application, the effect disappears completely. Boy1989 can confirm, since he is an expert in experimenting with Emla.
Two examples of irritation caused by Emla. In both cases, the effect of numbness did not work.
I don’t believe the softness of skin has as much of an effect on conductivity from a physics standpoint as the moisture content does (in fact, one’s psychological state of being can also determine conductivity). You guys might find this interesting:
Yeah, somewhat a function of a “lie detector device” (lying makes you sweat and thus increases conductivity), and also those crazy devices the “Scientologists” use to “clear you from alien space invaders.” You know the ones that were thrown in volcanoes thousands of years ago? Awesome! (A similar DC device was used in “biofeedback” so you could learn to get yourself into “Alpha.”*
Occluding the skin will raise moisture levels in the skin (epidermis), so conductivity increases. (Even facials do this and your skin looks better for a short time.
I don’t think any oil penetrates the follicle much below the Infundibulum. The follicle is not an open receptacle and the electrolysis needle actually penetrates tissue when properly inserted (see Schuster’s experiments).
*Note: before “constant current” (DC), the electrologist always could tell when the patient was experiencing more pain, because the DC meter would go up quickly as the patient felt more pain (and the hand sweated) … sorry about the run-on sentence, I’m too lazy to fix it this morning.
I don’t believe the softness of skin has as much of an effect on conductivity from a physics standpoint as the moisture content does (in fact, one’s psychological state of being can also determine conductivity). You guys might find this interesting:
I am not a physicist, but I’ve cooked chickpeas, beans and other legumes enough to know that when you enter them in water a few hours before the skin will soften to the point that you need less time to cook. Did you use kitchen gloves long enough so that your fingers are wrinkled when you take them off? I do, and I bet that the conductivity is greater then.
Yes but that conductivity change is not from a structural change. That’s from a moisture change. A structural change comes as a result but the structural change itself does not change the conductance.
I didn’t notice any difference in skin reaction between my axillas. The redness and scabs were equivalent; the scabs fell off in about the same time/days and the skin currently looks the same on both sides. The only difference was in the pain levels I felt during treatment with and without local.
Same for thighs. Emla was used in some areas and not in others.
I think that Brenton and Jossie are really talking about the same thing?
When skin absorbs water it gets softer. Fingers wrinkle because the skin has absorbed water and “got bigger.” More water = better electrical conductivity. (Okay, for sticklers, water with minerals. (I believe 100% pure water, with no minerals, will not conduct electricity?)
I think “my babies” are both saying the same thing.
I did a lot of work in Holland during the 1980s - 90s. I taught in most of the schools in that country. One time, they had me “sit in” on their “examination for beauty therapists.”
YIKES! They failed two girls because there were not “holding their hands in ‘MY’ exact position!” Of course, I did show people how I work, but that didn’t mean this was “the only way!”
We had a big discussion and I remember saying, “I don’t care if they use their FEET … as long as they are doing the job.” The point was well taken, and the girls passed the exam.
The thing is, few people would be able to exactly duplicate my “position” because I have very long fingers. A person with short fingers will find another way. We all find “our own way.”
The ONLY thing that matters is doing the job. I love watching Jossie work and I know that almost NO electrologists (on this planet) can duplicate her success. And, THAT’S what we need to be talking about: not “one-hand,” or “two-hand,” “back hand, “bent needles or straight needles,” etc.
I have not yet seen anyone work with his or her feet … but I wouldn’t be against it! If it works!
I am 5’3" tall. I can’t work from behind a clients head on the under chin area, so I have adapted to the best way for me to do this difficult to reach area. Yes, we don’t always work according to the textbook. That is why we are thinking human beings who adapt to what is best for us.
Mike, I will share what I already shared with you in the recent past. I love Jossie’s finger technique when I am doing large, furry area’s that require me to move along at a steady pace. Sometimes, there are hairs that don’t release, but if I go back with my forceps, they slide out effortlessly. At times, the precision of using a tool is helpful.
ha ha ha I had not thought of, but I guess it’s a matter of time to master the “Feet Technique”. If this guy gets it, why not us?
Seriously, I think some people get too much into the details but forget the essentials.
The tools are designed to help when it comes to high-precision work. However, I would like to see a surgeon removing a chicken feathers with tweezers… he will, but never at the same speed as my grandmother did with her fingers.
What do you think?
