There may have been a ingrown hair in that area that was lifted out and treated. Or perhaps the angle of the hair was difficult to treat … the hair grows at a 10 degree angle and was probably a distorted follicle. These are all possible reasons, but you may want to ask your electrologist during your next visit. These manifestations should be communicated.
"I want to prevent scabs … "
"I want to prevent scabs from appearing on that area too… Should I just tell her I want the current decreased? I’m not sure what could have caused the scabbing.’
First, Avito, what do you think a "SCAB’ is? Let’s start there!
I honestly thought it scabbed because the area was damaged too much from treatment, and needs to heal more than any other treated area. It’s normal and natural response to a wound. What makes it scabbed and not scabbed I guess depends on how bad the wounds were???
But I didn’t get scabs at all with the other times she worked on my neck (the other side not photographed). So that’s why I was concerned and curious. Personally when I get scabs they take forever to heal. Even if they are normal part of healing, I’m not super worried, I’m more annoyed because I just don’t want them to show up in the first place on something really noticeable like my face or neck.
Let her know that you got some minor scabbing. Show her the picture. That’s it. She’ll adjust as necessary. (She obviously did not have trouble with the other side, so it’s probably just a minor adjustment that she has to make.)
Avito,
I’m tempted to ask some leading questions to guide you towards the answer, but you are pretty close already, and I’m awfully critical of some others here for doing exactly that, because it tends to offend patients and I dont like seeing people with legitimate concerns get angry or upset because they are treated in this manner by some of the “professionals” here, whether or not they know what they are talking about. I think it counterproductive to the goal of educating and putting the clients fears at ease. So without putting you on the spot, here it is:
You already know that the electrologist is causing a “wound” and that the result will be the body will bring blood into the area, and that will cause white blood cells to fill the follicle ( assuming those cells are not washed away with soap and water). Given enough energy this will be sufficient to cause a pinhead sized scab. Scabs are somewhat more common on the neck than on the face in my opinion, but I have seen such on both areas in my own work if I have been a little too agressive with the treatment energy. I’ve also done hundreds of sessions at this point where there were no such manifestations of this type, and typically it will occur when working in an area with denser hair and clearing rather than thinning. This, you have all already been told in this thread.
I’ve also mentioned prior that tea tree oil does a good job of dissolving such pinhead sized scabs, and such may help you, but either way you will find that these scabs come off on their own within a week of treatment and leave little evidence of their presence in the first place.
I’m going to disagree somewhat with some others here that it is not possible to permanently remove hair without such manifestations. Our own Dee Fahey has been posting here for many years, leaves the skin perfect on every single treatment, and there is no doubt she is permanently removing hair. So it is possible.
I do feel that part of the cause of the scabs in this area is too agressive a treatment energy. It is however a very MINOR manifestation of such, and as Emendia has pointed out it wont take much of an adjustment to correct. So, just like always keep communicating with your electrologist.
I’m also going to say that the little patch you have left there is far too dense to remove in one session without leaving such an after-effect. This should be cleared over at least 2-3 week period to avoid such. The upper lip, which I think you will be working on soon, is the same, you should NOT clear this in one session, there have been discussions amoungst the professionals here that indicate that many wont work on upper lip for more than 15-20 minutes total in a single session, the hair follicles are shallow and the best way to prevent such after-effects is to spread the treatment of such areas over time especially in an area that everyone sees every time they look at you.
So yes, it is concerning, and it’s un-necessary to have such, but this small amount of after-effect will go away quickly and with no after-effects.A less aggressive treatment, will still leave disabled follicles, without such occurring.
Seana
Apparently today is memory lane day, so I’m pulling out some pictures I havent looked at for a while. I thought I would show you a couple of them Avito because they may make you feel a little better about what is going on.
This first picture, is from harsh overtreatment with galvanic electrolysis. Some of these hairs took in excess of 3 minutes of galvanic current before they would release. I was FREAKED OUT. I was absolutely certain that I had scarred my face for life, and it didnt matter how many here tried unsuccessfully to tell me otherwise. Does the scabbing look familiar?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66437553/IMG387.jpg
This picture is several days after an extremely aggressive treatment with blend. I’d been doing electrolysis for a few months on myself but was still using settings that were a bit too aggressive:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66437553/IMG_1250.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66437553/IMG_1240.JPG
Now the good news, is what is left after the area is allowed to heal. Today there is no evidence whatsoever of my overtreatment and I am left with perfect skin in all areas. I didnt necessarily believe those people here who told me all would be fine and it would heal with no issues, but it has definitely been the case.
Seana - a very thoughtful and thorough response!
Regarding upper lip treatment and skin manifestations… Now that is a very interesting discussion that I think would be educational and fruitful to have in a thread dedicated to the subject. I think even Voldemort, were he an electrologist, would not want to see scabbing on the face or neck if he could avoid it.
(Well maybe Voldemort. He did do a number on Harry Potter.) I think I’ll post a separate thread on this later, though I except a spirited response from the Dark Lord any time now. Heh. Heh. Heh.
Oh, also… Unless the settings were changed from one side of the neck to the other, a wrong insertion angle is just as likely as overtreatment. Wrong angle could cause small punctures and subsequent crusts, but who the neck knows for sure.
You could be right on insertion angle. When I took those pictures all of the work was DIY in a mirror, and still is.It’s difficult under such a circumstance to get the insertion angle exactly right. I was however able to distinguish where I actually broke a follicle wall and it happened with surprisingly few insertions.I would have gotten some scabbing from that but by and large even under these less than ideal conditions, the cause most frequently was using a bit too much energy on many follicles. It is a learning curve to learn to control these energy levels. Even still when I do experimental work and venture into modalities I dont normally work in, it takes time to determine with each patient what amount is going to give you a good release on the hair, without causing blanching, seeping yellow puss, scabbing. It takes time and its very individual to the hairs and person being worked on and I feel it is in this area that there is the most margin for error.I dont actally remember when the last time I saw scabbing like that unless I was doing experimental stuff and it was expected.so yes insertion angle is a possibility, but my money is on energy levels.It would tend to make sense that insertion angle could be a factor on that side of the neck especially because of where the electrologist, and patient, would have to be placed to work there so what you say has value as well.
I’m pretty sure we have our own Dark Lord.No, not necesarily who you think, he’s within every electrologist here at one time or another. He rears his head every time a client comes here with legitimate concerns, and we lead them on fact finding mission to assauge those fears. All too often feelings get hurt when we dont value those legitimate concerns of overtreatment or even disfigurement. I feel it’s absolutely necessary to avoid treating people as if their concerns are not valid while at the same time providing the information of what’s going and what similar results look like. Nothing beats proof, but it’s just as important not to treat a poster here as if you are their sixth grade teacher and to have legitimate empathy for their concerns.If I’m to be honest I think this is the most important goal we can accomplish on this site.
Upper lip discussions? We have actually had this discussion here many times, but what the heck lets have at it!I think this is an up and coming area of concern for the Original Poster so it’s perfectly valid to have here.My personal opinion is that a first clearance on an upper lip should take place over a 2-3 month period with very brief treatments over this time . This is likely to conflict with some electrologists here who have cients fly in thousands of miles for mass treatments. We all seem to agree that it is an area that utmost care must be taken not to overtreat, and that there are many shallow and delicate follicles.
Seana
Okay, let’s talk about the upper lip. If I recall one of the most recent discussions there was a disagreement about clearing the area, or not. If I recall, Dee said she clears the upper lip, generally in around 90 minutes, as did someone else (don’t recall who.) Mike Bono was for a more cautious approach i.e., thinning, not working more than 20 minutes or so.
I have some thoughts on this. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
My understanding is that Dee uses a timed flash thermolysis modality; for example typically a Synchro or Pico flash setting on an Apilus. Mike on the other hand uses a manual blend method, which is basically a slow thermolysis with galvanic added. (Sorry Avito, this is getting technical, but you may find all this informative as you dig deeper into this.)
The heating pattern in a manual thermolysis is pear-shaped i.e., wide. In that case, the risk of overlapping treatment patterns resulting in pleated scarring or uneven skin is too high to risk clearing an area. So Mike would be right about this on both a theoretical basis and on the basis of his many years of observations.
On the other hand, Dee is using a flash approach. The heating pattern in any flash method is very very narrow, so the risk of overlapping treatment patterns is much less. Her results, not surprisingly, are that clearing the upper lip is acceptable - for her. And I am not going to argue with her because she knows what results she gets best.
That said, personally my bias is NOT to clear the upper lip. I also tend to prefer a manual approach for thicker hairs but I can’t say clearing should never be done.
Anyway, I think all this can get confusing to the consumer. Heck it’s confusing to me 
Oh, and I agree that empathy here is important. We all learn in different ways and at different paces. Mama always said that if you don’t have something nice to say, well, you know the rest.
That’s awesome - sharing your results with actual photos is a big help. Avito, please take note: The skin is a remarkable healing organ. (We know you don’t want scabs on the face! Who does?!) Tell your electrologist so she can adjust as needed.
Nicely done “y’all” and ditto to all the comments. I have been busy the last three days … making thousands of SCABS!
Still … look it up on the internet to see what a “scab” actually is. It’s one thing to say “XX” (or is it “XY”), caused the scab … but WHAT is it in the first place! If you know what it is, and why it’s there, you might have less “angst” about them? (Well, probably not.)
And, I LOVE to make them too! Think, “the Milky Way!” “Billions and Billions … Beautiful!”
Oh, also… On crusts. I happen to have a smattering of nice reddish crusts on my arm at the moment; the result of playing with some galvanic settings two days ago.
My question to you all… Are they likely Blood or Lymph crusts? Lymph tends toward golden, so I’m thinking blood. Also, I know these are not pus crusts due to the color and because there was no infection.
Do lymph crusts take longer to show up? Does overtreatment from galvanic result in lymph crusts, or are red crusts common? Thoughts? I’ll have to dig up Mike’s book and re-read that section.
Mike… Yes you are the Carl Sagan of crusts! But please clarify… Crusts on the body are okay om, but not the face, right? You take an aggressive approach on body parts, but are you using a lower intensity technic on the face right? Let’s not confuse Avito and others not familiar with your methods.
Oh and Seana, I didn’t mean to discount your advice about upper lip clearing to Avito. I suspect his electrologist is not using an Apilus on a flash setting, so no, clearing. I just meant to add to the discussion because others do indeed clear. We know who they are, and they do great work!
As it happens I worked yesterday for approaching 2 hours on the upper lip of a client I will call “B” . B is also a dear old friend who I could totally get away with frying her face. She’d deserve it too !But I didnt . She’s seen some skin reactions over time, but by and large relatively few . 2 hours of slow blend is about on the outside of what I can perform and not start to see some occasional scabbing or other evidence, never anything serious. Having just checked in with her, she reports zero scabbing and no problems whatsoever and is ecstatic about it. We’ve worked up to this amount over about 3 months and is about a session in the next week or two to establishing afirst clearance there.
I think we all go back to what has proven to work for us when it comes to upper lip. For me this means a 6 second blend and spreading the treatment over time.For someone else it may be thermolysis and some might even say galvanic, but it doesnt really matter unless the result is the same,flawless skin. The upper lip is an area that clients obsess over, and which everybody sees .How many times have we seen someone obsess over a line or dimple or enlarged follicle on the upper lip and be absolutely CERTAIN electrolysis caused it. We all will gravitate towards whatever modality we feel we need to work in to provide as flawless a result as possible.To me there’s no wrong or right answer, it comes down to what modality the particular electrologist feels most confident of delivering that flawless result. Once we determine the modality we alsocontinue to refine that method. I’m more than willing to experiment with other modalities anywhere else on the face, but will probably always default to a slower blend for the upper lip, because I’ve had the best experience with that.
As it happens, Avito’s electrologist seems to be working in a similar modality.I wanted to stress that given the skin reaction history that has been seen in Avito, I would have taken an even slower approach than I would have on B. We started with 20 minutes on each side and if it were Avito I wouldnt recommend exceeding that for a couple months.
Seana
All GOOD comments again especially Seana’s, for me anyway. Gotta say this: she’s the smartest person on Hairtell … maybe because she’s not hampered by pre-conceived rubbish learned in a SCHOOL?
However, this scab "issue’ is my enduring nemesis because it usually produces a circular argument and ends with an "all hold-hands Kumbuya’ moment; with nothing settled.
Standard fair is, "my technique doesn’t cause scabs!’ Or, "you are using the wrong modality,’ or "turn down the current(s),’ or you "did a bad insertion,’ or you used ‘electrolysis or thermolysis or blend.’ Or, "you didn’t use a Laurier insulated needle, or the Apilus machine, or drink enough water’ Or … just fill in the blanks.
Then there is a discussion about the size of the scab (or the color: is it blood, serum, lymph, bubble-gum?) and somebody pulls out their micrometer (I actually have one! Yeah, I measured!). Then, of course, all the "products’ to use (or not use) to get rid of the scabs. Maybe even "exfoliate’ the bitches with organic walnut shells?
The conversations whimpers on with no resolution (just opinions) and still, no matter what, nobody will take the time to research the internet to find out WHAT THE SCAB IS! I could write this up, with the obvious conclusions, but nobody will read it or make the connections. The real "poop’ is just sitting there on the internet for all of "youz!’
A nice dispassionate scientific discussion would be wonderful … not just a bunch of twaddle. Don’t you think we should discuss the "effect’ (what the thing IS), before talking about what "caused’ the thing?
What is for certain is that in a year, Avito will be done with her hairs (all gone forever), her skin will be FLAWLESS and she will never think about electrolysis again (a good thing: get it done and don’t look back … ever!).
However, another client will come here and start the SCAB HORROR STORY all over again. Then, the "horror’ will dredge up the exact same circular conversation again, with no resolution, just opinion, and nobody taking the time to find out just exactly what a SCAB IS … and what it’s trying to do.
Please add-in your favorite Anglo-Saxon expletive here … thank you! As far as me saying anything about scabs? I ain’t saying NOTHING NO MORE …. NEITHER!
Here’s another way to look at this:
Nearly all skin lesions you present to a dermatologist look like a rash or an excoriation of some sort. The doctor will not decide what CAUSED the skin problem, and he won’t prescribe medicine to cure the thing. So, what does he do FIRST?
He identifies the problem first! What the hell is it… an allergy, a “parasite,” WHAT? … Only then, he can alleviate the cause and prescribe a remedy!
Doesn’t that make sense?
And, we have only ONE lesion to discuss, the ubiquitous SCAB … and still no real interest in looking at the thing objectively …
WHAT IS THE THING … in scientific DETAIL? And the “everybody knows what a scab is” won’t work … because it’s not true!
Sounds great Seana. I prefer manual blend for most work but am dabbling into timed HF as well.
Michael: What little I know about scabs I learned from your book, not school. And the fact that I am asking questions means I am not sticking to preconceived notions - on the contrary, I am here to learn. But you are right, there is a wealth of information out there online and in books - I think I’ll go explore some of those sources.
You know, I’ve noticed that the pro-to-pro area doesn’t get used much… What’s the point of having it if there are no “sticky” threads on things like “skin reactions” for us to talk about there? Likewise, repeating the same info in these threads is the nature of the beast, but a “sticky” thread on scabs, hyperpigmentation, etc. for consumers to review might not be a bad idea.
Ciao all.
E, there is a sticky about side effects. It is here: http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/93507/TEMPORARY_SIDE_EFFECTS_WITH_EL.html#Post93507
Body scabbing on legs: this is normal - it will heal beautifully
Facial scabbing like this not necessary . It scares clients and gives electrolysis a bad reputation.
This is NOT GOOD! Yes, this will scab in a couple days and will take a while to heal, but it should heal okay. Really scary for the client and totally not necessary. (It might be safe to say that the follicle’s are disabled?)
This picture shows some scabbing and redness at the follicle site: perfectly fine. It may scare some, but it shouldn’t. Healing will occur as Mother Nature attends to this and all will be fine.
Personally, I don’t like to cause scabbing on people’s faces. I will make adjustments and alter my strategy at the next appointment and I can usually make it so they have no scabbing next time. Sometimes I do get over zealous and I do cause scabbing on people’s faces. Again, I make adjustments. Heavy scabbing on the face causes too much distress and who needs that? It is possible to do facial work without tons of scabs appearing. We all try our best, but sometimes scabs appear. If they are small and few in number, NO BIG DEAL! Rest easy.
Personally, I don’t care about scabbing on client body areas (legs, arms, backs, toes, fingers, chest, bikini). In fact, I tell clients to EXPECT scabbing on body areas and if they don’t like it, then don’t do electrolysis.
Scabbing is part of a normal, healthy, miraculous, ORDERLY healing process. Scabbing is not the same as scarring. You will not be scarred for life if you scab. Do not lose sleep over a few small scabs here and there. By the same token, don’t allow chunks of skin to be removed where you have large scabs that may or may not connect. It is possible that you may scar with this kind of outcome.
There are degrees of scabbing. Be sensible and use your instincts to know when you should heed to the cautious voice in your head. Likewise, be sensible and know when to stop overthinking the small stuff.
Any electrolysis professional epilator can cause too much tissue reaction. Any probe can cause too much tissue reaction. A skilled electrologist must be vigilant always to try her or his very best not to over do ( or under treat) a follicle.
I hope the pictures posted above help others to know what is over the line and what is perfectly okay.
If clients can’t take a few scabs here and there, endure redness and swelling that may last for a few days after a session, then they should not get electrolysis.