Overtreatment or normal side effects for chin area

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hi all. I am a bit concerned about some reactions I’ve had lately, and I have been reading up on the forums here, but I am not 100% sure if the information I found would necessarily apply to me. So I’d just like some expert opinions about this. Sorry about this being long but I want to give you guys as much info as possible.

First off, I have a lot of facial hair since pretty much puberty (I am 27 now though), and loooooong story short I had been using services with an electrologist (galvanic method) for 9 years (treatments every week because it grows back super fast and the hairs are coarse and thick) and saw almost no improvement (lip area slightly improved). I didn’t know she was doing treatments incorrectly until I went to a NEW electrologist (who uses thermolysis) and she told me there shouldn’t be any plucking sensation AT ALL when removing the hair, and that she should have been adjusting the settings… now I feel completely stupid (but that’s not my problem I came to talk about on this forum!) The new electrologist said I would have seen results by now. Just fyi I have a hormonal imbalance that’s most likely causing the hair, along with some other endrocrine issues.

Okay fastfoward to now: I have been seeing the new electrologist for 2 weeks now and I am just confused about what is “normal” side effects. The area I’m MOST concerned about is my chin/jaw because that’s where the hair is the heaviest and thickest hair… The consultation/first week she did a test spot on the side of my chin and HOLY COW I had such a huge red welt for 4 days, and it was oozing yellow stuff (I didn’t touch it), and scabbed a little but they went away. I have redness there still though… I mentioned to her the next week about the symptoms and she said she will adjust the settings and not work in the chin area too much then (will thin it out instead).

THIS time (second treatment) she only did a couple of hairs on the other side of my chin. Now there wasn’t a huge red welt but there were whites bumps (by white bumps I don’t mean pustules I mean just raised skin like inflammation without the redness) on the places she treated, and again oozing of yellow liquid (but just on the chin/jaw area!)… Also during the second week got my cheeks treated because I do have a lot of hair there. The cheeks had white bumps and only turned red after I put some tea tree oil on it (I stopped using it after this because it looked like a bad break out). Just fyi my electrologist told me to only use neosporin after the treatment until symptoms subside (especially since I work in the medical field, I don’t want to touch my face and get MRSA or something in it lol), and to keep the area moist with it. I also use moisturizing lotion+spf every day (AFTER the redness and inflammation goes away).

It’s been 4 days now since my second treatment. And I have no raised white bumps, no irritation which is good, but now I have some darkening on my skin on the cheeks area like if I had some acne scars… is this normal??? I don’t know what to do besides talking to her next week (I get treated every week; my hair grows back that fast). I’m just really still in shock from going 9 years of “no side effects” from improperly performed “electrolysis” (if you can even call it that!!!) to a ton of symptoms all at once so I’m overwhelmed. My biggest concerns to address are:

  1. the scarring on my cheeks - it showed up on day 3 after treatment. it’s just darkened skin, not pitted but like, as if I had a scar from an acne breakout. I know it’s only been 4 days so I’m keeping my eye on it maybe it will fade quickly…

  2. what to do about treating the chin area because that’s the WORST area and it’s soooo bad (super dark and hairs close together) you can even see it far away on my face. I just don’t know how to approach working on it because if you ask me honestly I want it all gone and treated each week, but like I said, there is oozing and welts and stuff (and if I researched this correctly the oozing is bad and means its overtreated? but my new electrologist told me everyone oozes on the chin area because it’s so sensitive and close to the bone - the second treatment she said she adjusted the settings a second time, but more oozing did occur again). I just want some expert opinions here on how to handle this. BTW I live in Rhode Island and the selection of electrologists are SUPER minimal so I don’t have too many options.

  3. also I have lots of dark hairs on my jawline and neck - will this react the same way as my chin? I want to work on it, too but we haven’t touched that area yet.

I’m honestly really paranoid and worried because I don’t want to scar or mess my skin up. I don’t wanna rush through a ton of areas to treat, but I also don’t want to ignore working in places (like the chin that definitely needs to be treated and not ignored!). This is a learning experience for both of us, I know, but I just figured I’d ask for some advice or something that would help.

#2

I would urge you to try out one or two additional electrologists. While 9 years with zero results is certainly unacceptable, so too are negative skin reactions and blanching and seeping yellow puss is exactly that. Thermolysis can be done effectively without such manifestations.

#3

What You describe appears to my quite a heavy reaction but probably not overtreatment in the sense of causing skin damage (we cannot judge if the settings might well be above what’s needed).

The reaction You experience is pretty normal, probably unavoidable for a full clearance of a fully developed male beard. It appears to me a bit strong for the usually smaller density caused by hormonal imbalance. If the hairs are thick and “pretty” dense, four days until the swelling fades can sometimes not be avoided. Please always keep in mind the the wound area is mainly determined by the size and the density of the follicles.

Scarf is normal and to be expected to some degree - we are destroying tissue. This will cause the full palette of wound reactions, sometimes (as apparently in Your case) even hyperpigmentation. This reaction is pretty pronounced because the the wound area is pretty large. The yellow oozing is mainly caused by the high pressure in the swollen and damaged tissue. It can be safely washed away with soap. Actually it should be washed away to support the healing.

3 days after a treatment there scarring can usually not be observed at all - what You observe instead is probably the consequence of “wound contraction” underneath the skin which causes the surface above the wound to appear sunken in. This should fade away within about 2-4 weeks.

Now it is fully up to You: accept a strong reaction for almost a week in the knowledge that the hairs will go away or look for a different electrologist. But talk with her about alternatives, maybe leave healing gaps.

BTW: i do inform my clients in advance if such reactions are to be expected in order to ensure informed consent. And i leave the treated area untouched for at least 2 months (well, shaving is of course possible) in order to ensure full healing and to achieve the

#4

Thanks for your input, everyone!

How can I tell if it’s a normal healing reaction or if it’s hyperpigmentation?? Like I said its on my cheeks… it started out a little red from inflammation, put ice pack on it. Then the redness was gone, and I had white bumps. The white bumps after a couple days ended up going down, and what was left was was the skin turning brown color like an acne scar, and I feel like it’s slowly fading…

Also, the yellow plasma leaking out is NOT pus or infection. It’s a clear liquid and seeps out maybe an hour after the treatment. It only happens briefly, and if I wipe it away it doesn’t seep again… Also, this only occurs in the chin area/jaw area. Does the chin usually seep plasma and is unavoidable or should I just ask my electrologist to decrease the settings again? Like I said I want to know if this is normal or not for some sensitive people… the electrologist herself said the chin is the worst to treat because everyone will get the leaking of plasma… I just want some more opinions on what is “normal.” I can tolerate the symptoms I just don’t know if this is normal or would be too damaging in the long run?

#5

Excellent post Avito!

The chin (with a lot of hair, e.g., beard) is interesting in that it sort of invites the electrologist to “go to town” on it: nice straight “easy to remove” hairs.

The leaking plasma is not a terrible side effect; but I would do less work at one time on the chin … maybe “thin” the hairs and not clear (at least for the first few treatments).

The chin, unexpectedly, can produce some skin irregularity if it’s continually subjected to aggressive treatment. (You don’t notice this until the swelling completely goes away … and that can take many weeks!)

Upper lip, cheekbones and chin are areas that require a more careful approach (unlike, say, the side of the face).

I mean, what’s the harm of taking it a little slower? You will have the hair-free skin for a lifetime … so, “take it easy!”

#6

Michael, in the times i did blend i always tried to keep the “channel of destruction” as narrow as possible. I still do, and i find it easier to do so with these sequence of 1 ms pulses my epilator is able to fire off (like a machine gun [in my previous life i have been serving my 15 months]…). And that makes it A LOT easier to do full or almost full clearances without overloading the skin. Despite of that i am always prepared to leave healing gaps.

Luckily the skin on the chin, especially the often extremely hairy portion immediately below the chin (the Ziegenbart (goatbeard…)) allows to massively reduce the setting - and of course i am fully using that potential.

But You are right in Your warning: i really try to follow a strict schedule of clearance an long healing intervals - those famous 3-4 months - if i do full clearances in the face. In total minimizing the healing “load” and the number of healing “events”. The results speak for themselves.

But maybe my own experience of a heavy overtreatment helps me to judge what is possible - i know how it feels inside (and outisde) if healing does not occur without traces. And i am actually deciding from hair to hair if it is possible to clear or if there must be some hairs left.

#7

Oh yes, I agree Beate … the hair-to-hair and constant observation is the way to go. I think you are right that the more regulated current of thermolysis produces less of this effect. That makes sense.

I’m just finishing up a really dense beard (I think only 5 more hours maximum), and I’m looking at a couple “dings” I made: one on the upper lip and one on the chin. The client said she can’t see it; but I CAN. I gave her some products to help (my favorite “Super Serium”) but she said she “hasn’t gotten around to using the products yet!”

Some people see something when there is nothing … and some people don’t see anything when there is something.

#8

Hi again. Thank you so much for you advice on treating the chin. I am not bothered too much by plasma leakage, I just wasn’t sure if it was a big red warning sign that it was damaged badly or something…

To add to this I don’t think I mentioned it earlier but my skin always is “tight” after treatments and lasts for days… it hasn’t really reduced in tightness yet. Is this normal?? I’m just worried if this will go away or not. It’s tight even when I’m moving my face (talk, smile, eat). Should I continue with my weekly treatments and ignore this tightness? or should I wait for it subside completely and cancel my weekly appointments until then?

Any advice is appreciated regarding my treatment side effects (such as the tightness, or redness that doesn’t really go away, white bumps, hyperpigmentation etc). I just don’t want to worsen my skin and prevent more symptoms/prevent damage. I’d like to be more knowledgeable about these side effects so I’m hoping someone can help me out.

#9

I don’t know know all of your specifics, but if I were treating you, I would not be working on you once a week if you were bothered by tightness. Why don’t you go every three weeks and see what happens. My clients, early on in the process, might complain of tightness for a couple days, but duh, plenty of energy is being introduced into the skin’s hair follicles to permanently remove hairs that may be very thick and close to each other. It stands to reason that there will be TEMPORARY SKIN SIDE EFFECTS for hours / day - maybe even a week? It all well and good.

I hardly ever see a client once a week. I do the whole batch or a big batch of hair and wait 3-4 weeks to keep maintaining or clearing the area.

Give it a rest and space your sessions out. That’s my opinion.

#10

Thanks for the reply, guys. It looks like so far others are saying I should decrease the frequency of appointment which is fine by me. I just don’t know how I should be “properly” handling this situation. I’m just wary of these side effects (the perpetual skin tightness, and the redness that stays for days). If these are normal side effects then it is OK with me and I will relax about it… I just kinda need to know what is normal/abnormal here to I can be proactive and handle it properly.

I honestly don’t know what I should be doing (after-treatment, and spacing out sessions) because my electrologist isn’t telling me much besides use neosporin and come in next week… When I finally come to see my electrologist after a week of “recovery” time, my face bumps and most redness have went away, and but I have hyperpigmentation and tightness still (like someone is pulling my skin constantly).

I took some photos in case this would help… It’s still super bumpy and red and my face is so itchy. My electrologist keeps telling me just to put just neosporin on it for after treatment, and nothing else (that’s why my cheeks, chin, etc look greasy). I have also experimented with aloe vera and it hasn’t made much difference (and tea tree oil made my skin even more red and bumpy reaction). These are all taken 24 hours after treatment… she also worked on one side of the neck but didn’t finish the other side, I guess she ran out of time? IF this treatment (she used Blend this time) goes like last treatment (just thermo), then the red spots will turn into hyperpigmentation. This time I didn’t have huge welts on my chin like the first treatment, but smaller ones instead.

the flash photos really make my skin look lighter than it is; it’s actually a darker color, not the pink color that showed up in the flash photos*

#11

Without delving into your earlier post, I did (from that post) assume you were having a beard removed. But from what I’m seeing in these photographs there is nothing at all to be concerned about … all normal (redness and swelling). I mean, this is a normal as it gets!

I have offered up a free download on healing (books page at my website). Read it carefully and you might even impress your electrologist by tossing around a few choice terms!

Still, if you’re concerned then go every 2-weeks instead. Such a change will have no impact on the end result.

Don’t overuse neosporin. Were you my client I would suggest putting nothing on the skin afterward; there is no need.

#12

Double ditto on the Neosporin. About 8% of the population is allergic to the neomycin in the Neosporin.

These TEMPORARY skin side effects will go away. Keep communicating with your Electrologist so she can make adjustments to perhaps lessen the side effects. We all do our best for our clients., but we need to know your concerns.

If you use too much tea tree oil, it can cause redness and flaking. Cold aloe Vera gel right out of the refrigerator used immediately after a session does a lot of good to calm the inflamed skin down. I don’t know how you were using these products , that’s why I am bringing up more detail as to how I use them. DABS, just dabs, of tea tree oil with COLD aloe vera gel massaged in right over top of that, works great for many people immediately after a session. Do it right in the office. Don’t wait until you get home.

#13

In healing of the skin, swelling is NORMAL … if you had no swelling (from inflammation) you would have no healing. If a person were to take large amounts of steroids (i.e., injected) to totally eliminate swelling (inflammation/healing), the skin would just stay "open’ and not heal.

The materials that Dee has recommended are just fine AND they will have no effect on healing, because you cannot stop the inflammation process (maybe just limit the initial appearance and sensitivity; and that’s fine).

Okay, lets’ assume that you are going to have "X’ amount of (normal and wanted) swelling. If you had treatment on, say, your back (with lots of flesh in the area) the swelling would be almost imperceptible. However, if you had treatment on an area that has thin skin over bone, you will still have "X’ amount of swelling. However, in this case, the swelling has no place else to go except OUTWARD! So, unlike the back, you get a nice fat BUMP of swelling.

And, that’s all you are seeing. Thin skin over bone = a BUMP!

I have lots of photos to illustrate this point, but I sort of decided not to show these photos on Hairtell … so as to not cause a LOT of panic and condemnation! And, I have some loo-loos!

#14

Let me make the point super-clear:

Inflammation IS the healing process itself! It is not a side-effect; it is the actual healing process!

#15

Thank you two SO MUCH!!! I feel so much better knowing this is part of a normal response and now I’m not so worried! :slight_smile: And I will definitely look into that healing book, thanks Michael!

How often should I be reapplying aloe throughout the day? Like I said the redness/bumpiness remains usually for 3-4 days at length. Should I apply it like every couple of hours or maybe just morning, noon, night? My electrologist told me, “if you notice the (neosporin) dried, reapply to keep the skin moist constantly,” so I assume I need to be putting stuff on multiple times… The treated skin is feels rough without it.

I like to use my moisturizing sunscreen the next day after a treatment (I use it daily with the exception of the treatment day). I figured the skin would be closed up by then (my electrologist said to not use any harsh chemicals while it heals and is open). Should I put aloe on first like in the AM, then the moisturizer on when I plan to go outside and drive? I don’t know if I can wear both at the same time. I’m kinda clueless, but I feel like maybe I shouldn’t mix them at the same time lol.

I will try out mixing dabs of tea tree and aloe next time, thanks!

Any tips to prevent hyperpigmentation, or you can’t really prevent it? I don’t go out in the sun except for driving, and I try to use sunscreen daily with the exception of my treatment day.

#16

Were you my patient, I would TRY to get you to put nothing on your skin. However, I know that’s not possible. A lot of people simply MUST do “something!” Maybe it’s in the DNA? They feel the need to “improve the healing” and prevent “something.” Okay, I get it! (I don’t like it.)

I would “go” with using aloe as Dee has recommended. Aloe is pretty benign and I have never seen irritation from using it. Not so, the sunscreen.

If you are not “basking in the sun,” why use sunscreen at all? I find it bloody irritating, especially when doing sports, sweating and then the stuff gets in my eyes!

Remember, everything you put on your skin is foreign material. Humans have been around for a million years or so … the skin knows how to heal without any help.

Just for “shits and giggles” why not try doing NOTHING just one time? (I know that’s not happening.) Still …

After the treatment, just head home and read a book or watch Youtube (Josefa’s material!) and don’t do “nuttin’!” “NO Touchy!” Maybe wash your face in the evening and that’s it. Trust me, your face won’t fall off and you won’t get hyperpigmentation. Try it, you might like it?

#17

Actually, the skin is smarter than we are!

About that “flakey skin” after your treatment? It’s not a bad thing …

Bacteria lives on, and within, the “dead layer” epidermis (very top layer of skin). This outer epidermis flakes-off (and feels dry) because your intelligent skin is trying to reduce the amount of bacteria that could cause an infection: old skin and bacteria get jettisoned.

Washing with soap and water helps by washing off the dead skin and bacteria. Thick creams “hold” the dead skin in place and the moisture is a beautiful environment to grow bacteria and maybe cause irritation (at least).

It’s your choice.
Nature is smarter than we are!

#18

Thank you. While I like try to not put anything on my skin, I try to use my moisturizer because (no matter what season) I naturally have dry skin in most spots (forehead, nose, cheeks). I notice when I get treatments now the skin is even more dry… I just want it to promote healing - my electrologist said it would heal faster if it was moist and not dry (so I wanted to continue the moisturizer).

Any more opinions about this? I’m open for more.

#19

I think that’s fine. Just remember to error on the conservative side: use as little as possible. If the remedies say “a dab now and then,” that fine, but over-doing it won’t help and could make matters worse.

It’s like baking a cake. A “dash” of salt is required, but adding a LOT more salt will ruin the thing.

Good luck; looks like all is well.

#20

Hi all. So I’m going to reduce my treatments to every two weeks instead of weekly.even though my Electrologist doesn’t touch all areas that have hair she does go over some areas each week so I’m a bit concerned about hyper pigmentation at this point. I am Italian and have skin type IV so I know I’m prone to this as I’ve had some pigment from acne scars before.

I am confused because I am finding conflicting information regarding hyper pigmentation response. For me personally this darkened color shows up in spots treated about 5 days later…

What I’m confused about is some people say hyper pigmentation shows up because of over treatment (too high of a current setting) or because the Electrologist isn’t using a microscope (instead she uses cosmetic magnifier). So there’s some people saying it’s bad and a warning sign of being over treated and leading to permanent hyper pigmentation. BUT then there’s another group of people saying hyper pigmentation is normal side effect and it’s not due to over treatment.

Is hyper pigmentation a normal response to treatments? How can I prevent it from showing up to begin with? My Electrologist uses blend… Like I said I get treated weekly and now changing it to biweekly. She doesn’t always remove all the hair each week but I’d say it’s usually in the same areas getting treated. Also when she treats me she just mows it all down. I asked to thin it out once though I guess she didn’t really want to do that… The chin and jaw and neck is the most hair-dense area and she usually spends a lot of time in it just clearing it all out (like treating chin area 20-30 minutes or neck 20-30).

Any advice on hyperpigmenration being overtreatment warning sign vs normal side effect would be helpful. I just am concerned about the long lasting or damage. If this is indeed abnormal and due to overtreatment then I want to possibly reduce the amount of time for the area being treated ??? Ideas about length of treatment and duration? (Such as treatment every week or biweekly and like 10 minutes in a dense area as opposed to 20-30 mins?)