Overtreatment or normal side effects for chin area

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#41

If you don’t get the “material” out of the dead follicle that’s perfectly fine too. Always, “Easy does it.”

The dead tissue (and dead bacteria) will simply be cleared away by the body’s healing mechanisms. Look up “macrophage” (big eater) just for fun. Those are the “little monsters” that are cleaning up your wound … and I love them … my most favorite cells: think (the 1950s movie) “The Blob!”

You are getting larger “pus spots” because the follicle is trying to expel the junk and it gets pushed under the epidermis. I’ll bet it looks like the little “dots” are joining up? And, that’s just what they’re doing too … again, no problema.

Mostly this is a cosmetic problem; you will be fine. But WOW … who needs this?

#42

Indeed, you will heal, with time.

My opinion is, this is over treatment of the follicles and it is NOT necessary.

Show these pictures to your electrologist so she or he can come up with a better approach to avoid this kind of skin outcome. Feedback is important.

It scares people when the skin reaction is harsh and it makes it hard to face other people. You don’t want to answer questions about why your face is messed up.

Keep it clean. Be patient - it will heal. Don’t keep repeating treatments like this. Use the purest aloe vera gel. Apply as liberally as you want.

#43

Thank you, everyone! Those photos from that diary are very helpful, too.

Question about duration and technique… for future treatments for clearing out a dense area such as the chin, should I ask her to just treat every 3rd or 4th hair and not everything all at once? Would that maybe minimize the massive swelling and pustules that I got? Or do you suggest something else?

I’m sure I’ll have lots more regrowth in this chin area so I just want some ideas on how to prevent this from happening again. … I was lucky I wasn’t working Friday because the massive amount of swelling and pustules would have made me DIE of horror if my coworkers/public had to see me like this. My chin was practically 3-4x larger, it looked like a fake chin-- both comical and painfully red at once. Yikes!!!

When should I work on my chin again (like, wait a week, wait two weeks, more)? I’m fine with shaving it and waiting longer than a week because I want it give it ENOUGH time to heal (such as, waiting for pustules to be gone and swelling gone). I’m not quite sure how long these pustules/swelling will last because I never HAD this response before…

So theoretically if I see her in a week and I still have these pustules and/or minimal swelling, should I get the area treated still or wait? Also what if I wait a week and the ONLY thing I have at that time is hyperpigmentation? Is it okay to get treated in an area with hyperpigmentation?? Just trying to minimize this area being overtreated. Thanks!

#44

I would wait 4 - 6 weeks. The first clearances are always the toughest.

#45

Thank you, Dee. I’ll be sure to space out the next appointments as such.

I’ve noticed my skin slowly becoming less inflamed (less puffy) though it’s still a deep red color. Now that the inflammation is disappearing, the texture looking kinda pitted…kinda concerning. And my chin was never had this much texture like this before, I have many photos of my face in detail before I started treatments…

How long will should I wait to see if this is permanent pitting/orange peel or not? I know I should give it a couple of days to recover more. I just don’t like how it looks burned and raw…sigh.

#46

Oh you poor thing …

You are “hitting all the basses” on this! Ugh! These “pits” are also a result of healing. The destroyed follicles are now filled with dense (wound) collagen (like little columns) that contract and pull together (mostly downward) … and the surrounding tissue is swollen … so you get the “orange peel,” or “rocky road” effect. Geepers creepers! (Goes away.)

ALWAYS, electrologists “go to town” on the chin, because it’s such an easy area to work on: nice fat straight hairs and easy to see. For a number of reasons this is NOT an appropriate strategy. Nearly all our “Oh my God” cases on Hairtell involve the upper lip and the chin (and upper cheek bone area on men).

Follow Dee’s advice! Pure and simple!

Don’t worry about this because there is little you can do at this point to change anything. As they say, “just go with the flow?” You have no infection (the only thing to seriously worry about), so now it’s just a matter of time.

Give your electrologist a link to this thread. I think this will be helpful for her. There is NO BLAME here because we all try to pull in the same direction: to benefit our patients!

On the overtreated chin? How do you think I learned this? By making my own mistakes … and thinking it all through. THAT’S how we all progress and get better! Nobody comes with “full understanding!”

This thread contains a LOT of valid and useful information that will greatly benefit your electrologist! Don’t waste it.

#47

Additionally … there are NOT enough electrologists (or laser operators) on this website!

One cannot sit in comfortable complacency and expect to progress. Real learning is always a bit painful, challenging, embarrassing and even hurtful. And, it’s okay to get beaten up now-and-then!

With an open mind (and giving little concern to your ego), one can continually get better at one’s craft. (Actually, the few DIYers here present the most open and flexible minds … I suppose that’s because they don’t have "letters’ after their name and nothing to defend? tee hee.)

Over the years, the physicians I work with have continually slammed me. One physician (Dr. Hamilton) laughed in my face about my lack of knowledge on the skin (he’s a dermatologist). So I LEARNED about it! I had to just "get over it’ and then my old withered brain could learn, and my skills improved.

Understanding is the key!

#48

Thanks for the info, Michael! Here are some photos (day 3):


oddly enough there are scabs just on one side??? is that possible? lol.


as you can tell the angle/lighting will vary in these pictures so I took a couple different ones


the red things are tiny scabs


there is still moderate swelling so it makes me look like i have a clefted chin

Thankfully the scabs are just pinpoint. Right now, I’m still pretty bumpy and red, with tight skin. I am HOPING the peely/bumpy look will diminish once all the inflammation goes away. It makes me sad to look at because I had smoother skin before (just fyi my chin texture is not the same as my cheek texture, my cheeks have enlarged pores which are different than what my chin looks like before treatment). :frowning: I guess I just gotta wait and see… For now, I just washed my face, and I’m gonna put aloe on it. I know you said don’t worry about it but… anyone have any recommendations as what to do with/products to put on the scabs and the slight orange peel texture???

Also, I was looking into using rose hip oil for the hyperpigmentation to decrease it (since apparently I get it everywhere I’m worked on- sideburn, cheeks, neck, chin, and eventually upper lip). Can use this oil once the scabs have healed and left?

#49

I want to edit the post above but it won’t let me; sorry for double posting.

I just wanted to add that: I see her tomorrow morning to work on my neck area for just 30 mins. I’m not quite sure how to address the overtreatment of the chin… I’m sure she can see how bad it is just by looking. I hate confrontations like this. But I think I really need to talk to her about it. I don’t want this to worsen/happen again… although it looks like the damage is already done.

#50

Its not going to worsen and working on the neck is very different from the chin. Deep breaths and keep communicating. If she takes a thinning approach you wont have a reaction like that. I’m hesitant to call anyone out and yell overtreatment, because in a lot of cases it would be an electrologist who likely has more training than I do.Know however that this is going to heal fine, and I think that is a consistent message that has been tried to be conveyed by all parties here.Time is your friend. It’s still possible to have her thin and do muultiple areas and still make the same amount of progress, which is the approach that seems to be recommended for you.Also, the new pictures already look 100% better for you, it seems the compresses have helped a great deal.

Seana

#51

So what was the verdict on this? Plasma, Lymphatic drainage, or serum? Here is an interesting summary article on the differences: Difference between serum and plasma http://www.differencebetween.net/science/health/difference-between-plasma-and-serum/

In any case, the inflammatory healing response that follows any wound (treatment) involves local blood vessels becoming dilated and leaking plasma/serum into the surrounding tissues causing edema. Of course too much tissue damage can cause persistent edema because everything is so swollen that the body can’t efficiently absorb and remove the waste. Over treatment can also result in plasma/serum “weeping” out of the follicles onto the skin, which is what appears to me to have happened in the photos above.

Michael Bono, what say you? Do you think this is this what happened here? This is a learning opportunity for those of us with 1/40th of your experience, or less :slight_smile: Are we seeing the result of “weeping follicles,” or is this a normal body response over the bony part of the chin?

The skin will clearly heal, but weeping follicles would be a warning to me that the initial settings were either too aggressive or that the probe was in the follicle too long (or that follicles treated were too close together resulting in overlapping treatment patterns and thus over treatment.)

Glad to see the original poster is having good results now. Thanks everyone for sharing.

#52

Gosh Emendia, you have done a great job of this and I think you are “righ on target!” Bravo!

You can find ANYTHING on the internet (except my website … ha ha).

#53

I’m going to guess a combination of both overlapping treatment and too agressive a setting. The only time I’ve seen such weeping(and nowhere as severe as the OP’s) is when I turned the thermolysis quotient up a little too high when doing 1 second blend treatment but that was without having an overlapping treatment area, however the OP did a fair bit of removal in one localized area, so both…And yes I think it is plasma weeping.

Seana

#54

Hi all, just a quick update. We worked on the neck area for 30 mins, and also I wanted to show photos of how my chin looks now… Most of the inflammation is gone, chin still feels weird to touch (semi-numb still maybe still from the pressure?). Most redness is gone but I have more scabs showing up now. Drat.

I’ve talked to her and now we are treating me every 2 weeks, and I made it very clear I don’t want this to happen again with my chin. :frowning: I told her about how swollen it was, numb, etc, showed pictures (especially the one with all the pustules). I said if we work on the chin again, we can only THIN it out, I’m fine with shaving the rest. I just don’t want that big of a reaction so don’t do the whole area. She didn’t really say much as a response to this though. I guess she understood?? She just explained it’s what happens to the skin in the chin area, and that we will thin it out next time we work on it. She also examined my chin under her cosmetic magnifier too before we started working on the neck.

What bugs me now is the next area we will be touching soon is my lip, and if my chin had such a huge reaction now I’m paranoid my lip is going to get massive swelling/pustules/scabs/possible wrinkles. What to do??? We haven’t worked at ALL on my lip and I’m waiting to get some numbing cream for it first. The hairs aren’t as bad as my chin density, but if you click on the images it will show a larger resolution. I think I may end up with treatment overlap again, which is what happened with my chin because the hairs ARE pretty close together in some spots…

Day 4 of healing chin + today’s work on neck (photos have neosporin on skin because she put it on me; this is about 2 hrs after treatment):

I can handle pain in the neck area fine. What bothered me was the involuntary twitching of my skin… I felt so nauseous from it. Not sure why but it makes me literally nauseated feeling it zap a nerve ugh. I told her this bothered me (the twitching) but I know there’s nothing to do about it. ALSO I felt several instances of her pulling on the hairs. Not a majority of hairs but there were too many (maybe like 8 total?) so it made me uneasy. Usually I don’t feel ANYTHING when the hair slides out. I wonder if it’s because I was so uncomfortable and on edge because of the twitching…

#55

Thanks Seanna and Mike. Yes, what we were seeing earlier was “weeping” follicles… a leaking of plasma and lymphatic fluids seeping from the follicles due to an aggressive initial approach.

Avito, your skin is looking fine, and congrats on communicating with your electrologist in order to find an approach that works! Thinning and going every couple of weeks sounds like a safe and reasonable approach.

Regarding the twitching and nausea; I had a similar reaction from one person who was really having a lot of anxiety about starting treatments, but that went away once we got started. If, and I say IF, this is anxiety related, then maybe getting a medical opinion in advance of future treatments may help. Electrologists are barred from providing medical advice… in other words you may benefit from medication to ease your pain and or/nerves, but only a doctor can make that call or otherwise to tell you what the twitching may be about.

Regarding the plucking; well, ideally there should be no plucking, BUT sometimes en electrologist will pluck a few hairs to be on the safe side i.e., if I have treated a hair and it is not coming out even after I’ve checked my insertion and given the hair more than enough current to release it, then I might just might pluck it to avoid coming back to it a few minutes later by mistake and damaging the skin. Given the reaction to the higher settings initially, it sounds like your elctro dialied down the current; this will result in more tweezes. The good news is that once you start making better progress, there will be less tweezing as returning/remaining will be less coarse and will come out easier.

As for the upper lip - well, share your concerns. Have her pluck a few hairs and see how things go. No need to hurry.

Good luck!

#56

Mini update. I have lots of scaley, flakey skin that’s super dry. I’ve never had such dry skin before in all of my life…I get dry skin on my upper cheeks/forehead all the time (I have combination skin), but this is different. It’s just on my chin. It’s in layers and layers… I’m not sure what to do put on it. Moisturizer isn’t helping much. Aloe makes it less dry but I keep having to reapply. Is there anything I should be putting on or doing? Should I use an exfoliating wash? Buuut maybe I shouldn’t exfoliate because I have tiny scabs on my chin still.

Also, my neck area is starting to scab… I have 3 scabs on the side of my neck (in the mid neck area, not top or lower neck). I never scabbed there before (she has worked on my neck a couple times before). Does this mean she left the needle in too long, or the current was too high? It never scabbed on the other side of the neck so I guess the current wasn’t too high. Also there wasn’t a ton of hair removed in that spot where the scabs are… I was just curious to know why this may have happened so I can keep it in mind and maybe prevent it happening again.

I don’t have anxiety. I’m not scared of the needle or treatments. I guess it’s just my “natural” response to it forcing my skin to twitch. It’s not a panic attack or anything. Oh well I guess it can’t be helped.

#57

Avito, okay, NOW you’re getting “over the top!”

There is nothing in this last series of photos (2-hours after treatment) that looks out-of-the ordinary for post-electrolysis treatment on your gigantic hairs!

Yes, you did have overtreatment, but it appears all of this has resolved nicely. Yes, your zapper was too aggressive at first … but all is well. You have great big fat man-sized beard hairs! Your electrologist is trying to remove them permanently and this requires her to do more than tweeze.

For my colleagues that will “jump me” … YES! I understand there was overtreatment, but now this is starting to get …

Look, if you want NO side-effects, there are dozens of electrologists that WILL deliver perfect skin immediately after treatment (and sell you all kinds of expensive products); just get ready for 10 - 20 years of no results.

Your skin is BEING BURNED by electrolysis … that’s what electrolysis is: a controlled BURN. You are going to get lumps and bumps, and this latest “flaky skin” is natural. It’s the skin’s clever attempt to reduce the resident bacteria that lives in and on your epidermis. Of course you want to battle this flaky skin by using a moisturizer?

One can fight nature, but one often ends up screwing things up (mostly).

I have learned that there is absolutely no way in hell I can stop clients from trying to over-control their treatments (treatments that went perfectly). Despite my council, they put on all sorts of creams and potions to “help the healing,” or stop the normal healing process, (Vitamin E was something else.) And then the midnight phone calls to discuss a tiny red bump that “I have never had before.”

I have given extreme in-depth talks to clients about some manifestation, they listen and then they say, “Okay, so what can I put on my skin?” I give up!

You never had these manifestations before, because you skin was not being burned to full depth (to the subdermis) with an electric needle! BURNED! BURNED! BURNED!

Your electrologist needs to have a good serious FRANK & FACTUAL talk with you and get this all under control. You are now doing the “maybe this, but maybe that” stuff!

Sometimes a client needs a coach, not a priest. Although some priests can be kick ass too! Maybe a nice tough NUN! Yep, a NUN!

As they say in the South: “It’s time to clean your plow!” (But I do love you. I really do!)

#58

All I wanted to know was how to handle this super dry skin. Should I try to slough it off with exfoliant or just leave it be? I know that its part of the skin reaction. im not freaking out over it. I’m just curious to know how I should be handling the skin in this healing state. I don’t think I’m being “over the top” so sorry if you got that vibe. I put up the most recent photos just for progress sake and continuity. And I never said I didn’t expect side effects. Like I said in my posts I’ve just been asking why I’m getting x or y and what to do to handle it because hey this is my first time I got these reactions. So it’s normal to be curious and a bit apprehensive when these rapid changes come about. To not expect side effects of electrical and chemical induced treatments is like asking food to not cook in an oven. Don’t get me wrong here. I am very aware that this science causes skin reactions and I think me asking about them isn’t bad or over the top.

I also asked my Electrologist about what to put on my skin and all she keeps saying is neosporin. Which people here have told me it may not be necessary to do. That’s why I’m asking about what to put on my skin.

#59

Oh darn … lost my post … trying again; hope I remember what I said!

Yeah, I got on my high horse a bit; I do that now and then (asshat stuff) … sorry (having big trouble with a client, over nothing).

The flaky skin is fine, if you wish after 24-hours then put some gentle cream on the area (no need for neo). Or just wash now and then but DO NOT start “exfoliating” the skin.

Be Well, Smooch!

#60

Hello all. It’s almost been a whole week since the treatment. My chin is healing slowly but surely, so I’m happy with it. However I have bigger scabs developing on my neck… she treated the other side of the neck in previous treatments before this one but I never got scabbing or much pigmentation. I wonder why I got these reactions on this side and not the other??? Any ideas? :frowning: I want to prevent scabs…

The next appointment I have with her is for my neck (that patch of hair you see in the photo). I want to prevent scabs from appearing on that area too… Should I just tell her I want the current decreased? I’m not sure what could have caused the scabbing.