Overtreatment or normal side effects for chin area

Beautiful post Dee … and YIKES, now those are some nasty scabs. Ditto to all you have said kiddo! I can’t add “nothing” to what you have put together for the world to see. (I’m going to copy this one and hand it out to my clients … if that’s okay!)

I’m honored that you want to do that, Mike. It’s perfectly fine to do so.

Adding to Dee’s "best ever’ post on scabs:

Hinkel often said the most challenging for the electrologist are "large terminal hairs in moist skin.’ That still holds true today.

When the follicle is destroyed, the various "scab-forming’ products (you can look this up) fill the follicle and always do. With a small follicle, there is less of this material and consequently the crusts are, in most cases, invisible or miniscule.

A large/deep follicle produces more "clotting’ material (more tissue was destroyed), and as the gunk bubbles up to the surface to form the "clean cap for the wound,’ you get a larger crust. (Hinkel said these marks should be called "eschars,’ but I’m not so sure I would use that term. I prefer "crust.’)

As Dee’s photos depict, the crusts should be dot-size and not "join-hands’ to make the fearsome crusts she’s depicting here. When you have this kind of unacceptable crusting, the dermis has been overly damaged. The dermis recovers by laying-down dense collagen. The lesion will, of course, close and heal; but a scar (or a depression) would be likely.

Thanks again for the fine discussion. And thanks to our poster for talking about this perpetual question that clients have.

Thank you all SO much for your professional advice, opinions, and photos being shared. I really appreciate it and have been reading through them all. Although I am not an electrologist, I want to understand the technicalities behind it too! So all the info is really great, thank you! :slight_smile:

I just came back from my treatment about an hour ago, and I bring some photos of progress! I’m not concerned about the redness and swelling because that shows up EVERY time I get treated and it’s natural response. HOWEVER I did have a couple of red dots on my skin that looks like open wounds (?) … coincidentally they are in the same area (pretty much center of neck) that I got scabs in the LAST time my neck was worked on. When she was working on this area she paused for a moment and changed the settings. Oops. Not sure what happened because I didn’t ask and I didn’t know until I looked in the mirror later that they were red.

Again she uses blend modality on me, and THIS time she tried something new. She told me she was using a lower setting (whatever that means, current?). When she worked on me, some of the bigger hairs she was treating 4-5 times in a row before pulling the hair out. Before this, she would treat the hair maybe 3 times total and then release it.


Front looks good! We worked on the whole chin, and most of the neck/jaw.


Also did whatever was on the sideburns/cheeks.


I told her to just thin the dense patch I had on my left upper neck. This is the bumpiest area out of them all lol. I have some sparse white dots in this area (pustules).


And HERE is where the red dots are (not bumps, red dots). There aren’t many: one smack dab in center of neck, and one to the left but it’s not as big or as red. Just never had these appear before. Since this is the neck and not part of the face area I guess I’m not as concerned about it… :x

This is not over treatment and you will be gorgeous after the healing is complete. You have / had very coarse (not course) hair. More energy is needed for those hairs. The first six months are the hardest for hair removal, but then the skin reaction calms down a bit as less hair needs to be treated.

I use dabs of tea tree oil and COLD aloe vera gel right over top of that immediately after a session. Does wonders to bring peace to your skin. Of course (not coarse), you don’t need to do anything but keep it clean. Soap, water and Mother Nature will heal the skin naturally.

Did you get a medical checkup to investigate what might be causing all this coarse hair?

Ditto to DEE!

The red dots are capillaries re-forming. The skin is healing because it has a “dead space” of skin to bridge: you are looking at the blood vessels. There is nothing to worry about.

My ONLY concern is if you are expressing too much “angst” to your electrologist, she might continue using less-and-less current. Sure, no “red spots” and the skin will look perfect afterward; BUT … You want that?

Allow me to "Trump’ for a minute: Just stay the "course’ with these "coarse’ hairs … maybe have some "Coors?’

Try not to "kvetch’ over every fresh newly-seen boo-boo, I don’t see any "tsuris!’ … Your zapper is doing a GREAT GREAT job. Just go with it.

Is your upper lip next? UFO “Flying toupees” want to know!

I have little concern now about the side effects because I am used to seeing them all (redness, swelling, pustules, scabs, hyperpigmentation, etc). I am less nervous and not too concerned now because I have been seeing the same reaction more or less with every treatment. Today’s treatment has had very “minimal” side effects compared to past sessions, and I now have a very positive outlook on working with this electrologist now. Most of the anxiety is gone.

The next area we will work on is the lip, and I have yet to start on it but I think next session I will ask her to work on thinning it out a bit. :smiley:

That’s all good news …

PLEASE proceed with great caution on the upper lip … go slowly; even only a few hairs to start. Space-out the treatments with lots of time (days or weeks) between treatments.

The upper lip is the “Olympics” of hair removal!

I will, thank you. I’ll make sure to tell her to do only a few hairs each session (we usually do a bit in each area I need treated anyway: chin, neck, cheeks, sideburn, etc). Is there a specific reason why you are warning me about working on the lip? Is it because it have worse of a reaction than the chin or because of high risk to damage easily??

The upper lip is often an area that those undergoing electrolysis obsess over. It’s one of the first places any imperfection will be noticed by the client. It also has many shallow follicles which can make the area sensative to higher energy levels.So in short, the area is prone to reactions and is the area that you are likely to notice any small revealed wrinkle, enlarged follicle , or other effect.Lots of good advice has been given on this thread regarding this already.

Seana

Oh and before I forget.

Dee - to answer your question about my health/cause of hair… In my initial post at the very start of the thread I mentioned that I have a hormonal imbalance. I have high testosterone/DHEAS for years now (it fluctuates, sometimes one is high sometimes the other one is high, and sometimes both are high).

I also have some other endocrine-related issues (that may or may not be connected to the hirsutism). The endo docs (I’ve seen at least 4 different ones, now I am in the hands of the best and brightest docs in Boston) are still puzzled about my hypoglycemia and hirsutism symptoms because they can’t definitively link any of them into a specific disease category and figure out a solution for me yet. The best educated guess I have from the endo docs are “congential adrenal hyperplasia” but this is not diagnositically confirmed by blood tests… I’ve been having ongoing testing and MRIs (for tumors) for the last 4 years now. Honestly, I hate my hirsutism a lot… but hair on my face pales in comparison to my hypoglycemia that is super dangerous and causes me to pass out and feel sick almost daily. So yeah.

Additionally, I also have tumors (lipoma and nerve sheath tumors) that may/may not be contributing to this endocrine imbalance mess. I was first suspected of having Neurofibromatosis due to the tumors being endocrine in nature but I do not have all the symptoms… and it wouldn’t explain the hypoglycemia. BUT The tumors may be secreting hormones on their own, but the surgeons do not think this is likely. The nerve sheath tumors are pressing on my adrenal gland, in which I ask the surgeons if this is somehow making my adrenal secrete excess hormone (such as to cause hirsutism or hypoglycemia) but they all have said no.

Side note: I am well researched, and I work in the medical field so it helps a lot in understanding the basis of endocrine diseases…

Thank you for taking the time to answer that so well.

I don’t have time to go back and check the whole thread to see the details of if one had a hirsutism screen or not, so forgive me for asking again. It is important to understand if someone has a medical problem that needs to be addressed. Most hairy people are healthy and don’t have an adrenal tumor or anything else that is serious.

If you want to put that detail or any other detail in your signature for others to glance at, that would be helpful, but you certainly don’t have to do that.

I think you found a good Electrologist that will take you “home”.

Hi everyone. I have been busy lately (long story, more medical issues) so haven’t updated until today. I had my electrolysis appointment this morning, and something ODD happened. Before I started going to this electrologist the hair on my face was super thick and coarse. But with treatments from her, now what normally happens with the hair that grows back has been super fine and thin. Great thing, right? :slight_smile:

Right before the treatment today I examined my face because it looked so odd… Just in one patch on my left cheek I had super super thick and coarse hairs that grew in (maybe grew in within the last 3 days). Like I said with these treatments I have been getting growth that was thin and fine hairs…

I was told by my electrologist that hair grows in cycles and usually its a 10-12 week cycle that new hair phase shows up. This was my 11th treatment so it is normal. So anyway we proceeded to do the treatment (cheeks, upper lip, chin, jaw, neck - the usual spots). But after the treatment I looked in the mirror and there were HUGE pores left where the coarse hair was removed. What?! I gasped in shock.

Like I mentioned I HAVE had super coarse thick hair removed in the past in this area and also on my chin and I NEVER had these huge pores show up!!! And yes I have enlarged pores but not THIS big! They are usually only around my nose area and were NEVER in this spot. These are very noticeable now… ouch.

So anyway I ask her about it 'cause I’m concerned about the spots where the thick hairs were. She says the pores will close up. I’m skeptical of this, but I just iced my treatment areas like usual… and at the end of the day the pores are still wide and very very apparent… the other side of my face in this area does not have these pores, they are normal sized. I’m concerned this is pitting.

Can pitting happen with just one treatment in a spot??? But like I said I haven’t ever seen these large “holes” show up after a treatment until now.

Right after zapping the area she wiped it (I’m assuming it was bleeding?). She usually doesn’t wipe the skin AFTER treating it, just before it to clean the skin. I didn’t really notice any difference in technique or intensity that she uses when working in this area— usually with a thicker hair she will zap it with several tries before trying to release the hair. Hmm.

After the session I looked in the mirror: got my usual skin reaction, raised and red/pink. Like I said the only difference is on the left side my pores look so huge now!!! Out of all areas treated on my face that area on my cheek is “tight” the worst, ow. OH and when I look straight forward in a mirror the left side (the one with the large pores) of my face is a bit swollen even though it’s not red anymore. I guess it’s still inflammation and maybe the pores size will go down with the swelling I hope??? I am trying to be patient here and see if the pores will get smaller… dunno what else to do… :frowning: I’m really sad… I hope these aren’t permanent…

Photo of left side:

right (for comparison):

ANWYAY Does anyone have anything similar happen with these “pores”? Any advice? They look more like dents.

I am worried that the pores will scab over. If it scabs over does it mean that there will be a higher likelihood of permanent pitting?

Thanks in advance!

Big deep breaths Avito! Relax…and…

Pitting occurs when over treatment occurs underneath the skin .THe “cooked” flesh pulls on the surrounding tissues pulling the surface of the skin inwards . It takes months after treatment to show up ( up to a year) and is not visible immediately after treatment.

The pore s on your left side do look enlarged, but honestly I think this is a trick of optics. I can see enlarged pores ont he right side too, but they havent been treated so are not AS enlarged, also they have red hue to make them stand out more on the left side.
The pores will tighten up over time, and there is no reason to fear scabs,you might get a scab or two, but it will not overly affect the final results. Your skin will look lovely and beautiful. Your electrologist, is exactly right. Nothing to worry about.

Edit: I wanted to add to this because I felt I l missed something. “pitting” is a very specific phenomenon. You wont usually see enlarged follicles leading to pitting. Sometimes though the follicle is overtreated in addition to being stretched out by the probe being moved around the follicle to zap both sides of the hair root.In this case the flesh has lost its elasticity and results in something called an “ice pick scar” . However looking at your left cheek, I really dont think overtreatment occurred there. It all looks normal.The reason for multiple zaps is sometimes to direct the energy to all the parts of the follicle. so they may zap the left side , then the right side, then pull out slightly to destroy the bulge. A very fine electrologist advised me on this method! It’s not necessary on most thinner hairs, but often is with larger hairs, so the follicle opening will stretch out a little from the probe being moved around in it. It usually returns to normal sizee and shape within a few days. I honestly dont think you will see any ice-pick scars. Come back in a month, and show us a picture of the same area.If the pores still look enlarged there may be a problem, but they likely will be invisible just like the rest of the skin.

Seana

This is a great and thorough response by Seana. Skin is incredibly resilient, your skin should bounce back. Post more pictures in a few weeks.

I’m a huge fan of the multiple pulses technique. I find it works really well on deep anagen hairs.

Thanks for the input!

I get treatments every 2 weeks and the hair on my cheeks grow back each time… should I not get that area w/the enlarged pores treated until the pores shrink? Just being cautious.

Also as an update on my face, each enlarged “pore” in the photo has now a tiny scab where there was an opening… :confused:

Just some photos of the “healing” process. I have tiny scabs on my cheek (where the enlarged pores were!) and scabs on middle/side of neck. Though the other side of neck has little to no scabs but WAS also worked on. Most sessions do not have this much scabbing. I think this may be the third time total. But it’s the most I’ve ever got from a session, yikes.


As you can see the enlarged pores were replaced by tiny scabs.

Again I am left to I wonder why it scabs over during one session but the next session there are no scabs from treatment… hmmmmm.

Some areas are more susceptible to scabbing than others ans sometimes the skin itself is more prone to reaction at one time or another but not all the time. The upper cheek where the skin is thinner, and the neck, are two areas I have noticed scabbing before. You have shown us pictures of MUCH worse skin reactions on this thread than what I am seeing here. I think what you are seeing right now is spot on.

Hi all. It’s been a long time since I posted. I’m still getting treatments every other week. To follow up with my last post, after about two weeks the enlarged pores on my cheek have closed up (see last photo I posted for pores). Yay.

But unfortunately I have permanent pitting on my chin (both left and right sides). It’s been there for several months now since I started treatments with this new electrologist. I don’t have any before pictures but I know for a fact I never had “enlarged pores” on my chin (it’s not a site where I would have them).

Is there anything I can do for pitting on the chin area? It’s really bothering me because there are many in this area, it’s not just one or two. I’ve also noticed the skin on my upper neck area is pitted too and isn’t the same as it used to be even after a week of healing between treatments…

Yes, I understand the hairs on my chin were really tough and thick, and to remove them a lot of energy was require. So I get that pitting sometimes is a consequence of the tough, coarse hairs. I just want to know what I can try to do about it now…

Well Avito, welcome back. You know the drill, for the best advice on skin reactions, pictures will get you the best opinions.

Seana