Overtreatment or normal side effects for chin area

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#21

Unrelated to my post above about hyperpigmentation, I figured I could give you guys an update with photos.

This is about 6 hrs after treatment of the total chin, she just cleared it straight out… I have a ton of swelling, I look like I have a chin prosthetic on lol…which I know the swelling will go down. HOWEVER my concern is all the leaking plasma/serum. I’ve never had this much ever. It’s all dried now, but – there’s so much of it.

Will these become scabs due to overtreatment or is this normal effect on the chin area? Any advice on this would be helpful, thanks. FYI I didn’t touch it, she put neosporin on it and that was all, and I will wash my gently face later in the evening (I don’t wanna disrupt whatever is going on with the plasma crusts).

#22

Don’t worry. That leaking plasma is a side effect of the swelling; the pressure in the tissue is so high that the plasma leaks through the wounds (keep in mind: everywhere where there was a hair there is now a wound). Wash it away with warm water and mild soap - gently (!!) - and let it heal.

The skin will probably recover within a few days.

#23

Swelling and redness will occur immediately after removal of these heavy chin hairs. The yellow oozing in the photo above is lymphatic drainage, and like others have said, its healing the treated follicle. Do not remove any crust and let the skin heal its self.

I am very careful to keep settings low on clients with olive skin because sometimes pigmentation CAN happen. Post inflammatory hyper pigmentation is temporary and not usually a permanent scar, it will eventually fade.
To avoid pigmentation on darker skin types, I don’t go over 40-45volts.

I personally think it is important to start slow when treating a new client. Everyones skin will react differently, and its best to be conservative until you know how the skin reacts after treatments. I start new clients with a 15 min treatment, and then schedule them to clear or thin the area a week after first treatment. It works for me because I can see the clients skin a week later after treatment and ask them questions about how their recovery was and then make adjustments if needed.

BTW, Im confused, you said on the first initial post that your NEW electrologist uses Thermolysis… now you said they use Blend. Which is it?

#24

Beate_r thank you for the advice!

SFelectrolysis, thanks for the duration suggestions. Here has been my last month basically:

My (new) electrologist started me with thermolysis for the first two treatments and switched to blend because I was having lots of side effects (huge welts) lasting almost a week’s worth of time. When we switched to blend, the duration of symptoms decreased. My electrologist said I may tolerate blend more than thermo and that’s the reasoning why she switched.

I don’t know voltage or any setting details, but she mentioned with blend she will start out with a low setting and may increase it or something. I do know when she uses blend she keeps the needle inserted for 4-5 seconds after the beeping noise is heard. The chin hairs are tough; she had to zap several times before moving to the next follicle… Today she did something a bit different: she zapped a section of hairs (sometimes rezapping as needed) and then went back to gently pull them out afterwards. I guess she left the hair and lye(?) to sit there for a bit on their own. Maybe that’s suppose to help???

I had 2 treatments of blend so far including today’s; the last treatment only had side effects for 2-3 days instead of 5-6 days with thermo. She originally started with me 10 min thermo with consultation, then the following week we did an hour of thermo, and next week after that we switched to blend for an hour, and then today’s session was blend as well. When she works on me she does a little in each area (though today was different because she did the WHOLE chin ouch). Today’s was about 45 mins for the chin alone because it’s so dense with hair, and just 15 mins for my cheeks which have little regrowth and I honestly don’t have any side effects on my cheek area at all.

Next time I see her will just be a half hour, and we will work on the neck area (which is uncomfortable because this area makes me twitch involuntarily and the action makes me nauseated??? weird, I don’t like the feeling).

#25

I’d like to address just a couple points of concern you expressed. But first:
I’d like to take back what I said about trying out some different electrologists, .Okay, well not really, because I recommend ANY client try out multiple electrologists before committing to one, but really the purpose of saying so in the first place was related to concern that your electrologist didnt seem to be adjusting her method or modality in response to your concerns and I think I owe your electrologist an apology. Clearly, as she has done exactly that, that appears not to be the case.She changed modalities completely so it’s a chemical doing the burn,rather than thermal heat, to change the reaction the skin was having. Then, one step further she adopted a treat and wait strategy ( treating several hairs and then pulling them all at once) in order to provide time for that chemical reaction to take place from the ( yes you assumed correctly )lye in the follicle, rather than using more current to get a smooth extraction, to further prevent any kind of overtreatment. I have to give some serious kudos to your electrologist it is EXACTLY the process of change and strategy that I would have used! And, most importantly, it cannot and would not have happened without communication between you and her on the issue, so you both get kudo’s.

For the yellow seepage: It’s not ideal but it doesnt necessarily mean overtreatment either. It CAN be indicative of that or, but it is a completely normal reaction to trauma on the skin whether that trauma is over tratment, undertreatment or just right the reaction can still occur if enough work is done in an area… …Soap and water multiple times a day in the 48 hours after treatment will help clear out the white blood cells that are pushing their way up and out the follicle, but once a scab has formed, leave it alone and dont pick at it or try to scrape it off.Think hot compress, not scrubbing.
I’m reminded of the first time I tried galvanic electrolysis, and I had admittedly overtreated, and ended up with at least 2-3 times the seepage s what shows in your pictures. It’s two years later and the area healed completely and perfectly within weeks of the treatment( just like some here said it would) , and yours will too.

On Hyperpigmentation : this is almost the same issue as the seepage, the hyperpigmentation COULD mean overtrereatment but but in all likelyhood does not. Again it is a normal part of healing and the fact the skin is healing could mean it was overtreated, but could just as likely not and it’s normal part of healing from damage/ trauma ( we do “damage” the skin to remove the hair even if it’s localized to the follicle, but this is NOT scarring) . The bad news is hyperpigmentation takes longer to go away, anywhere between a few months and about a year and a half but the good news is that it ALWAYS heals completely with no remnants. Hyperpigmentatio, nor seepage, dont represent scarring. They Dont mean the area has been overtreated. They mean the area is healing from trama/damage that was intentional and its completely expected that such manifestations will occur. can occur. WILL OCCUR.

Regarding your upcoming work on the neck:
I am the queen of handling electrolysis pain. I did everything above my chin with no anestehetic whatsoever even the upper lip with no issues ((both electrologist and patient at the same time too). But there is one area I am more sensative and less tolerant of the pain, and that is the center of my neck. I completely understand where this seems to build on itself starting off at the pain level from one insertion, then adding from there on the next. The Neck is the ONLY place I have ever felt the need to use a topical anesthetic. It worked fabulously. No it didnt take away 100 % of the discomfort but it does allow me to go 2-3 times as long .The neck is also the only place I have ever had to call a stop to a session, when I was not using anesthetic. 5% lidocaine gel will take a whole lot of the edge off working on this area, there is a name brand ( EMLA) that s available in most countries over the counter.Apply it about 40 minutes before a session.

I will say, that looking at your pictures I dont see nearly as much hair as I expected from your description, and your electrologist is doing a really thorough job. If they clear each area the same way, 3 times, a few months apart, you will be pretty much finished. Fabulous work.
If there is one thing I would like to convey from all this, is dont panic. Dont freak out when you see a pimple or a mark you werent expecting. Do exactly as you have been doing, and keep communicating on skin reactions with your electrologist. It is absolutely the right way to approach it.

Seana

#26

Bloody interesting … nicht wahr?

We have two seasoned electrologists with two contradictory views. One says that the leaking fluid is “plasma” and recommends washing it away. Another says the same fluid is “lymphatic drainage” and NOT to remove it."

Of course, I have my opinion on this. But the super interesting (revealing) thing is that we have two very conflicting ideas: actually opposites. And this “what happened, and what is that wound, and what should I do about it?” underscores what I generally see as a gaping hole in the education of electrologists.

We wound the skin! That’s what we do! It’s our job definition!

We should be able to unequivocally identify every post-op manifestation of our treatment. We should be experts in managing wounds. No wonder clients get confused. There is almost never any agreement or a universal understanding of our endeavor.

#27

I am trying to imply to not aggravate the treated area.
Should heal fine with out any added aggravation.

Michael, your site is down tonight… was trying to check out the free download on your site that you mentioned.

#28

Thank you so much to everyone on all their advice and knowledge. It really is super helpful and decreases my anxiety about these reactions. As I stated before this is still all new to me, so it’s both scary and a learning process at once.

A mini-update, I washed my face tonight per usual and noticed well, my chin is numb to the touch. I never felt numbness in a treated area before. So, is this common? It’s still really really, swollen and tripled in size… so I chalk it up to the fact that it’s high-pressured skin and still very inflamed.

Also after I washed my face I noticed I have many many tiny white dots (not bumps, dots as if it looks like pus or some sort of liquid on top of the skin). I never had this happen with any treatment areas before. I tried to wipe the dots off and they don’t really come off. They don’t appear to be pimples. When I try to dab at them with a q-tip some crytalline yellow stuff comes off (looks like dried plasma?) but the white dots remain… Odd… I will assume it’s just crusted plasma even though I don’t see anymore yellow ooze on my face at all. Just white dots (pustules?).

#29

Alright,lets do a little invest-i-migation. We have an “unknown” liquid seeping from an electrolysis wound. What’s in the area that could do that? Some blood, some skin, and maybe some bone nearby .Lets let google, be our guide. I wasnt able to find an image of Lymphatic drainage or lymphatic fluid. I did find these two rather interesting looking devices, the first one actually looks a bit like a galvanic electrolysis machine:

http://www.leahjoiner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/lymphatic-drainage.jpg

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/480/420/463/463420480_675.jpg

Some interesting quackery to be sure, but no yellow liquid seeping from the skin. In fact I could find no image of lymphatic drainage or fluid, a few diagrams, but no photographic evidence of such fluid exiting the body like this. You would think someone somewhere would have snapped a picture if such a thing were occurring?

Now lets look at the contents of blood, since we know that blood will flow into the area of a wound to assist in healing due to a wound/trauma/damage:

http://static.rolleoralfacialsurgery.com/wp-content/uploads/PRP.jpg

So…which part looks like the yellow liquid seeping from your chin?Which part looks like the little dried up Not-pimples?

Do you suppose, that the "white "part of those pimples could be white blood cells filling the follicle, and the little yellowish crust dried plasma? Sure looks that way to me, but yanno, I’m just a “hobbyist”. Not a professional, nor expert on wounds. So I urge you to do your own “invest-i-migation”

I stand by, soap and water multiple times a day, giving the wound time to heal, and above all DONT PANIC. I think I’m going to write the hitchikers guide to electrolysis.

Seana

#30

Thanks for the heads-up on my Hillbilly website. I’ll have Eric (nephew) look into this whenever he WAKES UP! Kids sleep 'til noon … I’m up at 4:30AM, mostly starring at the walls.

Anywhoooooo … This wound thing? I’m not putting anybody on-the-spot because when I attended Hinkel’s school (during the last Ice Age), I was given a LOT of misinformation too … I mean REALLY wrong! Additionally, a lot of our textbooks have misinformation too. So, what the hell?

For example, I was taught to “never damage the epidermis … or you will get a scar.” Problem is the epidermis cannot and NEVER forms a scar no matter what you do to it! You know, just tiny errors like that!

Ideally, the wound-healing subject should be researched (easy to do on the internet) and some special booklet or video produced to benefit all of us: client and zapperette. I think a booklet would be best?

(Excellent photo of the blood factors, by the way. Thank you! Mostly the white “pus” is dead white cells and dead-ass bacteria too. YUCK! Now, do you squeeze it out or not? Oh my!)

#31

Credit for the photo goes to the oral surgeons site who hosts it, though there were dozens of such images when you do an image search for blood plasma…

No, dont pop anything . This comment actually scared me a little bit because I was a little concerned someone might take it seriously.Wash the area as stated.

Seana

#32

OK I’ll just keep rinsing the skin. My concern is just, the white dots don’t leave, they don’t wash off… also the skin is numb-feeling. I don’t know if I should be squeezing them or just leave them. But my instinct says don’t squeeze 'em lol. I’m concerned about it becoming infected. All I do is gently wash the area.

Quick question, I have very inflamed skin and I’m concerned if by Monday it doesn’t go down (and I would have to show my gigantic chin at work ugh). Would taking an antihistamine help or make this worse? I think I read that I shouldn’t be taking antihistamine (like benadryl) because the inflammation is natural and suppose to help heal it so I assume it will interfere with the healing process. Sigh. I’m just concerned about the inflammation staying so long… In the past for me PERSONALLY I have had cystic acne responses (deep pimples) that have really large histamine responses that don’t go away for months. This is why I’m so concerned because knowing how my skin CAN react, although the cystic acne cause isn’t the same as multiple wounds in the same area. It’s the inflammation that’s the same.

#33

  1. The white dots are most likely pustules. You can (should) gently squeeze out the pus (use a warm towel … no needles!). The pus is dead material and does nothing to help the healing (actually slows it up). If you get some bleeding that’s fine, the body LOVES fresh blood. If you decide not to remove the pus (because that freaks people out, although it’s a myth), that’s okay too … the skin will heal anyway.

  2. Yes, take the antihistamine. You will not hinder the healing because you CAN’T stop the process by any means at all. The Benadryl can aid in the temporary appearance (if it has worked for you in the past).

  3. You are getting too much treatment in too small an area. At this point do not clear off the area. Have your zapper remove only half or a third of the hairs until it’s thinned out enough to do clearances.

You should not have that much disfiguring swelling. Electrolysis should remove the hairs, not put you in “rehab!”

#34

Here is a photo of my chin so you have a better idea of these mysterious white dots (today they almost look yellowish?). I’ve been wearing neosporin all day yesterday and at night (because the electrologist put it on me, and I figured ok just for the first day I’ll wear it because I don’t want all these wounds infected).

Right now, I have nothing on my face. I tried to wipe them away when washing my face but to no avail. MAYBE they are blisters and that’s why they don’t wipe away? I even tried to poke or rub it to “open” it gently but it didn’t work either. I don’t wanna puncture or squeeze the skin because it’s still so puffy and numb-feeling. I’m worried I may make my skin worse right now.

The funny thing about clearing the chin-- I told her to thin it out in the past, and she did little patches instead which resulted in welts but not THIS large of a reaction of the whole chin. (I was on the phone just now and noticed that I had muffled speech because of how big my chin was affecting me opening my mouth, what the heck???) For whatever reason she did the whole chin this time… I’m gonna tell her not to do this ever again. I would rather work in smaller pieces anyway and shave the rest that’s left there.

#35

Hey Kiddo,

Excellent photo and basically don’t worry.

Here’s what happened. The dead follicle still had left-over dead material in it (they all do) … and add to that your oily skin (?) so the oil in the follicle added to the mess.

In most cases, the body absorbs all this dead crap, or pushes it out. In your case, the epidermis grew over the area in a few hours (and that’s what the epidermis is supposed to do). However, for you, the epidermis has trapped the junk in your skin. And yes, it’s super thin … only a couple cells thick.

Having so much treatment in the area caused too much swelling, and diminished the skin’s ability to clear the area of the junk. Surrounding blood vessels got squeezed smaller because of the swelling. It’s the blood vessels that carry off the junk … yours got diminished in size … so BOOM a nice “pimple.” I mean, the crap has to go somewhere?

I (for myself) would use a warm-water compress to gently remove the pus … (these are NOT blisters, by the way). If you are fearful of doing this, then just keep gently washing the area.

Don’t put Neosporin on the skin, because you do not have an infection (i.e., coming in from the outside). Technically, you have an infection … but it’s your own dead tissue and dead bacteria. The Neosporin will further occlude (cover) the area and, at this point, you want the pustules to go away.

If you do clear away the pustules (maybe see some blood), then the neosporin is okay, but still not necessary.

Most likely you are going to get tiny scabs once the pustules are clear. At that point you can use creams to soften the crusts (although I’d still just wash my face).

Damn it! This should not have happened! In the long-run this will be inconsequential … but who needs the grief?

#36

Okay… I understand it now. But now I’m kinda bummed out about the fact that there’s SO many of them on my chin now (some are pretty large too, ouch!). Should I clear them out or not… which decision would reduce damage to the skin (pit, longer time scabbing)? I’m worried if I open them to get the stuff out that it will leave a pit/scar in the long run…

Edit: I tried a warm compress, holding the towel for several seconds at a time against my skin, for about 2 mins total. I tried to gently wipe them off, still won’t budge. Maybe half of one wiped off but that was it. I don’t want to be rough with my skin either… I just don’t like the way this is panning out. Not sure what else to be doing with the skin. :confused:

#37

Just curious, but we dont pop tombstones because we dont want to cause any scarring or further damage to the skin, why then would it be ok to do so with a pustule? Is there not a risk of pushing bits of infection into deeper tissues doing this?Maybe I’m missing something, probably so.

The warm/hot compress works wonders and I wholeheartedly endorse this advice. I would add though that tea-tree oil might be better than your neosporin. It can dissolve and loosen scabs ( not sure about “pustules” but it’s essentially the same process) and has some antiseptic qualities. You shouldnt need either, but given the two tea-tree oil would be the way to go. Given the use of tea-tree oil and compress, there should not be too many pustules left to worry about squeezing.

Seana

#38

In my experience, some areas of my face were more prone to pustules than others. For instance on eyebrows, I never had this reaction - it was always on my chin and corners of upper lip. As treatments progressed and I required less time I rarely got pustules.

I personally never popped them, just kept the area clean and applied witch hazel on occasion but if I still had some pustules the next time I saw my electrologist she would gently pop them using clean tissues. I never had any problems either way and it all cleared up fine.

I’ve also experienced the skin tightness you describe but only when doing a large clearance on my sideburn area. I was prepared to live with more reaction for more clearance. Again, it all healed fine.

#39

Thank you all for the continual advice, everyone. I think for today I’m just gonna keep washing it and using some warm compresses throughout the day (I guess I can do it a couple more times), but I’m not gonna pick or rub too much at the skin. The white dots still do not budge.

I wouldn’t be as paranoid as I am right now except for the fact that there are two very large white things that have appeared on my face now. They aren’t tiny like the rest of the pustules. Just showed up today. The size of the large dots… well, I guess it’s like six or seven tiny dots combined. I’m unsure what it’s trying to do. Maybe a scab forming already??? No clue on how to handle that large one, either. FYI I looked at my photo of the area on my chin yesterday when there wasn’t a large white thing on it, and it didn’t look like a big gaping wound or anything??? Aren’t large scabs suppose to be made over large wounds??? Confused.

#40

It may help you to read through this thread:
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/115753/1.html

This user had coarse hair on her chin area also and from the pictures I consider that she had a heavier reaction to treatment initially than you. She includes various pictures and you will see that on occasion, she had pustules too and developed hyperpigmentation. Hyperpigmentation can be a normal healing reaction for some skin types and should you develop hyperpigmentation just know that it will heal.

Go to page 15 of the thread and you’ll see how perfectly her skin healed from it all and the results of her treatments.