Josefa,
Laser et l’électrolyse sont les mêmes. Après un traitement, la même quantité de cheveux ont été traités. Nous disons que le laser est tout aussi efficace, mais que c’est plus rapide. 10 minutes avec laser = 10 heures à l’électrolyse. Laser est tout aussi permanente que l’électrolyse…
Hi LAgirl:
I would answer your question with other questions:
The human brain has the capacity to create a machine less than himself? or there are some biological constraints prevent us, at any given time, more progress?
Would you let your life depended on a machine with a mechanical brain?
Or would you put your life in the hands of someone with a brain composed of neurons?
Which of the two brains would ensure more of your survival?
People are not potatoes which can be selected in a production line. And even if the selection must be inspected by a human. Of course if we want to guarantee quality.
French for Francophones across Canada:
Je voudrais répondre à votre question avec d’autres questions:
Le cerveau humain a la capacité de créer une machine à moins de lui-même? ou il ya des contraintes biologiques nous empêcher, à un moment donné, plus de progrès?
Souhaitez-vous que votre vie en dépendait sur une machine avec un cerveau mécanique?
Ou souhaitez-vous mettre votre vie entre les mains de quelqu’un avec un cerveau composé de neurones?
Lequel des deux cerveaux permettrait d’assurer plus de votre survie?
Les gens ne sont pas des pommes de terre qui peut être sélectionné dans une ligne de production. Et même, cette sélection doit être inspecté par un être humain. Bien sûr, si nous voulons garantir la qualité.
Pour Edokid:
Les photos ci-dessus appartiennent également aux consommateurs. Ces témoignages sont tout aussi valables ou réfutable que la sienne.
Edokid
Oh!!je vous remercie beaucoup. C’est autre chose. Je comprends parfaitement et je l’espère, à mieux m’exprimer par écrit en français.
Je sais exactement ce que vous et LAgirl dites.
Mais malheureusement vous ne m´avez pas compris a moi . Ou je n’ai pas été assez clair.
Je n’ai jamais dit que le laser ne fonctionne pas. J’ai essayé de dire que les résultats obtenus avec l´électrolyse sont plus rapide.
Le temps passé sur la table est supérieur avec l’électrolyse, (cela dépend aussi de l’expérience du professionel). Mais le temps total écoulé depuis le début du traitement jusqu’à la fin, est plus faible. Cela dépend de la rapidité avec laquelle les poils émergent à la surface de la peau, qui dépend à son tour du calibre de ces poils.
Dans tous les cas, le traitement dépasse rarement un an de la durée totale. Les quatre saisons. Depuis l’été des poils sont stimulés par la chaleur, bien sûr, si le consommateur est dans un endroit sur la planète, où l’été est chaud.
Vous avez l’honneur d’appartenir à un pays magnifique, qui est aussi le plus grand (et mieux) de producteurs dans le monde des machines électrolyse. Vous devriez être fiers de ce fait. Comme je suis de faire partie de ceux qui sont impliqués pour enlever les poils indésirables.
Josephine 
[i]Can you please explain why you think the “hairs grow back” after laser and not after electrolysis?
Is clear that in this arm 80% of the follicles are in telogen phase. Lack of chromophore. Therefore not impact the light energy in the follicle.The first session would fail 80% + 5% shedding hairs: Total failure in the first session 85%.
Electrolysis results are shown in the photo. But if you want I’ll tell you again. All the hairs that were in that arm were successfully treated at the first session.
Regardless of the phases of each hair. Of course missing some hairs, which days before had fallen by the natural moves (5%).[/i]
[b]- This isn’t an answer. It doesn’t make any sense. Your photos prove nothing. I can show you a photo of an arm after waxing. There is no hair after waxing either, but it doesn’t mean that the hair was killed.
[i]Can you explain how laser produces permanent results if it all the hair grows back after each treatment?
I said that all the hairs grow back after each treatment?
NO, I said that in the first session again receive the 85%. I have not mentioned the 12 or 16 sessions that would follow the first. OK?[/i]
[b]- Yes, you said that after a treatment with electrolysis, hair doesn’t come back because it’s killed. And you said that after laser, hair comes back after the first treatment (and have no explanation for why). There is no logic to this either. Laser works the same way as electrolysis, only the treatments are a lot shorter because the heat is not applied to one follicle at a time like with electrolysis.
[i]How did I get to a point of no hair after 6 treatments if everything “grew back” after each treatment?
I remember that on occasion you said that every 2 or 3 weeks were going to your electrologist and took the occasion to remove a couple of hairs armpits. right? it shows that your underarms are still producing hairs. If your electrologist works well, those 2 hairs are not always the same. Your armpit hair is still producing. Hairs have been failure of the laser.[/i]
- No, I did not say any of this. Maybe it’s a language comprehension issue, but you got it all wrong. Just so we’re clear, I removed 95% of hair on my underarms with 5 laser treatments spaced 2 months apart. I got electrolysis AFTERWARDS on about 20 FINE hairs that remained (after I waited 6 months and still only had 20 fine hairs left. Nothing else was being produced). Laser cannot target fine hair. I didn’t have to do electrolysis. I just wanted the last 20 fine hairs gone too. I only had maybe 15 minutes of electrolysis TOTAL. This was 3 years ago. Btw, each one of my laser treatments took 5 minutes on the treatment table. So the total time I spent on the table at a clinic on getting rid of 95% of underarm hair (coarse, dense growth that caused lots of ingrowns and shadow originally) was 25 minutes.
[b]-You didn’t answer my main question: Explain SCIENTIFICALLY why laser would take longer than electrolysis. Why would it kill hair on treatment #10 and not on treatment #1? You provided no explanation for WHY. Your statements are illogical. Laser either kills hair when it touches it, or it doesn’t. There is no in-between.
-So, no, laser doesn’t take more treatments. It takes less. You have no basis for your conclusion - see the statement above. (Yes, I undertand French).[/b]
Here’s a good thread for you to read which contradicts all your illogical assumptions. This person just updated their thread. They only had 3 laser treatments and got 50-80% removal on underarms and bikini. Just so you understand, 3 treatments on these areas means she had to go in 3 times and each time the treatment on both areas together took about 20 minutes. So she spent 1 hour total on the table to get this result. It’s been a year since.
http://www.seme.org/area_pac/tratamientos_detalle.php?t=fotodepilacion
http://www.laserdiodo.es/tiempo-para-conseguir-depilacion-total.html
http://www.aad.org/public/publications/pamphlets/cosmetic_laserhair.html
http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004684.html
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/843831-treatment
The experts explain to you better than me. It’s simple, just copy, paste and read the translation.
I’m confused, I translated the first link and it looks like a clinic that does laser hair removal as it just talks about only dark coarse hair being treatable and so on. It doesn’t mention electrolysis first of all and I don’t see anything where it even bashes laser?
Why don’t you paste the lines which you think prove that laser is slower than electrolysis or doesn’t kill the hair on the first pass? As far as I can tell, these lines do not exist.
Is it that hard for you to explain in your own words? If you actually understand and know what you’re talking about, it should be easy.
The problem is that you do not have an explanation or an answer for my question. You have no understanding how laser works. All you keep repeating is basically that “you heard” that laser takes many more treatments than electrolysis, which is a false statement based on absolutely nothing probably made by someone like you who doesn’t understand how laser works.
And here’s an unbiased study for you: http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/htm/programmer/kontant/haarfjerningrapport.pdf
[color:#FF0000]“The timing of treatments is important because hair should be treated during the anagen phase.”
[/color]
This is true, no?
The arms of the picture are 80% of telogen hairs.
What results have the first session of laser?
Look at the picture. You’ll see no color in the root of the hairs in telogen.
NO chromophore. NO LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS IN THE FIRST SESION BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF THE ARM HAIRS COLOR ARE NOT IN THE ROOT.
This is not exclusive to laser, although it’s actually easier to kill hair with laser during LATE anagen because the hair is more coarse at that point. It’s very hard to kill hair during non-anagen phase with electrolysis (I’m sure you disagree, but there are no studies that indicate otherwise; thus it’s just your opinion).
Plus, it doesn’t matter since you only go in for laser treatments once every 2 months when the hair is in anagen. AND, it’s recommended to wax the area prior to first treatment to make sure to start treatments when all hair in anagen.
This doesn’t make electrolysis faster. You are removing ONE HAIR AT A TIME and still have to go in consistently to remove hair that keeps showing up. Electrolysis cannot remove hair that’s still right under the skin. Laser targets everything under the skin, including hair that’s about to come out, but can’t be seen in order to be treated with electrolysis. And I’m not even talking about the time spent on the treatment table treating one hair at a time.
There hasn’t been one single electrolysis patient on this forum who has experienced complete removal of hair with electrolysis in under 12 months. Why not? Where are these people who are done with electrolysis in under 6 months as you suggest? I went to 3 different great electrologists and it took me at least 12 months to kill ALL hair on each area.
The only person suggesting that electrolysis works great for hairs not in anagen is you. None of the electrologists on this forum agree with you. There are no reported stories of anyone getting complete removal with electrolysis in less than 9-12 months. You seem to keep suggesting that your clients get this result. That leaves me to assume that you’re either exaggerating, or lying, or cannot count.
Please provide an explanation of my results and thousands of other people who got the same results as me in 3-6 laser treatments (I posted you a link to someone who just updated their results thread today). Are we all lying? What do we have to gain from it? How did we all get results if what you are saying is true?
Also, please find me one person who is willing to be on the table for treatment for 20+ hours of electrolysis treatments throughout a year to remove their bikini hair one hair at a time when they can go in 6 times instead for 10 minutes once every 2 months for laser treatments for the same result?
I said all I had to say.
But I’ll add a couple of things.
Studies have shown what I say. If you do not want to believe me, I understand. But you should not hesitate a TEACHER known throughout the world.
In 1996, Mr. Bono has published a book in which he showed with graphic evidence that could be obtained with Electrolysis results of 75% in the first clearance. 3 months after the start of the rest of the hairs of a woman’s armpit and chest of a man.
The total time to remove most of the hairs was 6 months from the start.
Bono to live a lie, also?
It is a matter of strategy: CLEAR AND WAIT.
Other electrologist can do the same. I recommend it to everyone.
Maybe it’s time for change.
I imagine Bono’s colleagues, think he is crazy. Galileo, Darwin and Colon also were crazy at first, and see, the time gave them all right.
For my part, this discussion ends here. No I have nothing to add except that it was a pleasure to discuss this matter with you and the sympathetic Edokid.
Thanks you for your time.
Best regards and until next time.
Josefa (the crazy Spanish) :whistle:
There is no such study. Please post a link if it exists. I posted a link with studies that contradict everything you say. Not to mention, everyone’s stories on this forum contradict everything you have said.
I have had both laser and electrolysis done, as most people on this forum. Everyone here knows how long both take. And none of us would choose electrolysis on any area where laser can do the job well because it’s cheaper and involves less time on the treatment table. Neither is “faster” since it takes the same amount of time to go through all the hair cycles and kill hair in each one.
Mr. Bono has been bashing laser since its beginnings because it threatens his business. He is not a laser expert.
You can’t say it takes 6 months to remove all the hair from any area. It can take 6 months if you target every single hair in the right phase and actually kill it. Unfortunately, electrologists are humans and they cannot affect every single hair on the first try, whether it’s in anagen or not. If anyone says they have 100% perfect insertions every single time on all hairs, they’re probably lying. And there is always the issue of not being able to treat hair that’s still underneath the skin like laser can. So bottom line is, electrolysis is not “faster” for anyone.
What IS known for sure is that a person getting electrolysis instead of laser will spend hours instead of minutes on the table getting treatment as well as pay a lot more since they’re paying per hour. And time is money too.
“I’m surprised that I’m seen as ‘bashing laser’ since I work in a medical clinic that uses different types of lasers, including those for hair removal. I had doubts many years ago, in the beginning of laser treatment, but of course see the benefits of laser. I work in concert with laser experts! My writings in the mid-1990s may have questioned laser, especially those that used a “rub in” carbon-based cream. Too bad that people think they know what you are saying — or thinking. But then, getting angry seems to be the way of the times.”
MICHAEL BONO
Ok, Ladies, can we go to a neutral corner, drink some water, breath deeply, count to ten, shake hands, and call it a day?
If Mr. Bono is changing his outlook on laser, that’s great. I’d love to see it reflected on his website. I haven’t seen any updates made there. Am I not looking in the right place?
Michael Bono has a Web site? I had an occasion to look up more information about him and was not able to find one.
I don’t see a date on this article, but I think it was written somewhere beyond 2001. I wonder if some would change their minds about some of the information presented? Michael Bono’s comments are listed towards the bottom of the article. Now that time has passed, he may have a different comment about laser, but perhaps not? Last I heard, I was told that his concerns with computerized epilators used for electrolysis controlled the practitioner and he wanted total control of his blend treatments. For all the years that I have used computerized epilators, I have found this to be the total opposite. I can absolutely control my energy and timing whether I use blend or thermolysis, much more so than when using an analog epilator. Perhaps his opinion still remains the same for laser and electrolysis, but he is still a highly respected electrolysis practitioner and author.
Dee
Sorry, I meant Gior’s websites where Michael Bono is often mentioned.
Take a look at this for example. This chart is a complete and total lie. $4500 to treat underarms with laser? More like $200-450. One of the zeros needs to be removed from each cost estimate.
Those prices are out of whack, but I will betcha that this chart has not been updated for years. Maybe prices were such as he says ten years ago when certain lasers were used by a small number of practitioners. Now there is a laser on every corner and competition has increased, thus prices have decreased.
Dee
Underarm treatments never cost more than $200-300 per treatment even when lasers first came out. Even if you take those initial prices 15 years ago, it still doesn’t add up to $4500. Those are just insane.
Based on the note at the bottom, that site was built in 2007. Prices in 2007 were the same as they are now.