For Butterfly4444

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#61

I agree that laser works. The results I’ve seen after a few leg treatments are already satisfactory, and it is clear from other customers that I can expect these results to last. I do not feel that I could have cleared 80% of my leg hair permanently for less than $230 with electrolysis.

However, I think what Josefa/depilacionelectr means about getting a 95% clearance the first time with electrolysis is that she uses a method that treats all the non anagen hairs as well. This can only be done (according to the Bono book I read recently) by pushing the probe to “anagen depth” much lower than the hair follicle itself reaches during telogen phase and letting the current travel upward rather than down. Then you clear everything and wait many months for session 2.

According to Bono, this technique is very “heavy duty” and sometimes painful for people and it is inappropriate for the face, but it only requires 3 sessions TOTAL spaced a few months apart over the course of the year. He doesn’t say 95% clearance, but he estimates 50% permanent removal in one session, and half of that at the next session, and full removal in session 3.

After reading about this technique, I realized this is what I was doing to my own arm with the one-touch machine (my insertions were verrrrrry deep), and I have to admit I was puzzled that I’ve actually experienced nearly full baldness for like 9 months on that area after only one treatment.

So my conclusion is that it IS possible for electrolysis to treat non-anagen hairs that laser can’t, because you can push past the bottom of the follicle. BUT!!! It still takes more hours than laser on the table, it still seems more expensive by every calculation I’ve ever done, I don’t think very many electrologists use this method anyway and even fewer are good at it (Bono calls it Body Technic).

So Josefa, I appreciate what you’re saying, but I agree with LAgirl that well-performed Laser is still a better option for good candidates on certain areas.

#62

In unshaven areas, many telogen follicles are empty and some early anagen hairs lie under the skin. You see only exposed anagen and telogen hairs.

Within a fews days after treatment, the concealed early anagen hairs surface. Then successively (for several months) the resting follicles produce “new” anagen hairs. All these never-treated hairs are FALSE REGROWTH.

(That’s the remaining 25% of hairs, missing from the equation)

#63

I stand behind your statement, Josefa. All true.

#64

Oh no, no, Dee, these words are not mine. This is the truth of Electrology. In the mouth of a person who does not expect to himself, the glory or recognition. Only the truth.

#65

Josefa, are you talking to me? You didn’t need to tell me that, I already knew it. I wasn’t implying the hair that is treated at the second session is the same hair that was treated in the first session. I think everybody here knows it’s the new phase of hair that was still developing under the skin. Duh.

#66

You are a sharp one Vicky.

Mike sent me this to post to this thread, but with the family time black hole, I have just gotten to doing this.

Body technique is not the same as the technique of pushing past the end of the follicle. That is a different thing.

[b]Thanks to James for posting
this for me. I have made it a point, over the years, not to involve
myself with on-line chat because it sometimes ends up in a useless
screaming match.

However, with regard to my “changing my position on my website,” I
really have had a good chuckle. You see, I have never had a website!
From 2000 - 2003 I had a website dedicated to a medical product for
the removal of telangiectasia ONLY. But, I have never had a website
dealing with electrolysis — ever! (I’m still thinking about having
one, however.)

I’ve always held the view that you should never “vote against
technology.” I’m endlessly excited about all the new innovations in
electrolysis machines and laser treatments. What I believe is what I
see with my own eyes. At some point I may express my views, based on
actual experience. However, at the moment, I prefer to spend my free
time swimming in the ocean and in the garden. Happy Easter!

(Mike Bono)[/b]

#67

Glad to see this statement from Mr. Bono. Many in this profession stand behind his words. When I attended a continuing education seminar a couple of Sundays ago, our two hour lecture on blend was a great review, but Mr. Bono’s name came up as not supporting the new technology involving blend modes because he believes the electrologist has very little or no control over the energy and timing, meaning the machine leads the electrologist, not the other way around. So it sounds like nothing is set in stone…

Dee

#68

James, the time with the family should be sacred.
Otherwise, make us wait for these words is an unforgivable oversight.
Once again, Mr Bono does justice to his surname. His words (properly emphasized in black), do not support shadows. Like the stars, her words shine with light itself.

Dee, Mr Bono is right, our Apilus does not allow us control over the system Blend. The manufacturer introduces important limitations as the minimum time and the amount of mA in galvanic current.
Thermolysis has developed Dectro is better than one electrologist could want. But in my opinion the galvanic current should be perfected.
I would love if you could test the Blend of my old machine. Would understand what Mr. Bono wants to tell us when he speaks of autonomy.
I could not understand why other electrologist not share my vision of a Blend in less than 1 second until I tried the Blend of Apilus. Then I realized we were talking about different Blend.

#69

Oh, but I can adjust the energy units of lye and timing on my Apilus Platinum, so I don’t quite understand what you mean Josefa. I can easily go outside the presets if I so deem it necessary. Same with the Silhouet-Tone VMC and digital Gentronics I used originally. Computerized epilators DO NOT limit what we think we should do for particular hair structures when working in blend. I am a bit in the dark about your style of blend in less than a second. I don’t think that is a true blend, so feel free to educate me if you have the energy to do so.

Dee

#70

Well of course I am James, that is why I get the big money :wink:

It is nice to hear from Mr. Bono. I appreciate him taking the time to speak to us!

As for automatic vs. manual, my Apilus SM-500 also lets one fully adjust the blend settings like a manual machine if one wants to (and I have on many occasions.)

#71

I already explained above that I meant Gior’s webste where Mr Bono is mentioned.

#72

Well, how to start posting in this thread. It has been a long time since I posted last time. I sometimes have a look the forum but I do not participate and I have my reasons for that.
I am not a laser expert neither an electrolysis expert but I know a lot more about electrolysis than laser. So I am not going to write about laser but about electrolysis and about my dear friend Josefa. Here I go:

  • Josefa is a highly respected electrolysis practitioner in Spain. She has an electrolysis facility in Málaga and has been working full time as an electrologist for over 30 years. Her team is composed of 3 electrologists working full time and has 3 apilus platinum (How many of us, electrologists, would desire that amount of business?) Between 1996 and 1998 she and her team, made a clinical study, scientifically done, to determine the efficacy, in measurable terms, of electrolysis. Just for those who say there is no such study. Here are the links for the 2 parts of the study. It is in spanish but it was also translated into english although I do not have a copy or a link to it.
    http://www.cosmobelleza.com/es/home/informacion/tecnicos/news.76882.cosmox;jsessionid=DA1D775BD24DACADB1AD03B3EB9F4BEB

http://www.cosmobelleza.com/es/home/informacion/tecnicos/news.76884.cosmox;jsessionid=82DA962BDB78E778EC6BE303F3ED97CF

  • The study was also put into the only one book that is being used currently in official schools in Spain to teach electrology: http://www.videocinco.com/shop/detalle.asp?IdProducts=387&IdTopics=60&id=2
    That study proved that for electrolysis it doesn’t matter at all in which phase is the hair when we treat it. Excellent results can be obtained in anagen as well as telogen. It is also easier if the hair is in telogen as the hair is less deep and there is less area to destroy, so that less energy is needed. It might be it is a bit more painful but not less efective than in anagen.
    I am the living proof of that: In November 2007 I had a treatment in my right leg done by Josefa. It was done in a approximately 10 by 4 sq. centimeters area. I had never touched the hairs in my leg before, I mean no wax, tweezers, electrolysis, laser, nothing before. It was just a session and today, two and a half years later I have that cleared area with just a few remaining hairs, I would say not more than 10. Just one session, no more treatments after the first one and I have not touched the area since then. Most of the hairs in my leg at that time were in telogen and they were removed permanently with only picoflash. I do not know if you can remove nearly all of the hair on any area with only one treatment but I do know you can do it in my legs and I know that Josefa has been doing it in many other legs for years and years. She has hundreds of satisfied customers and her appointment book (and I mean not only for her but as well for the other 2 electrologists that work with her) is full until July. To me that means something.

  • It is also false that electrolysis is not for large areas of skin. Who says that? Who can decide that? With a higly skilled practitioner like Josefa who is able to treat easily 1,500 hairs per hour in an area like legs and remove them permanently I would think about if electrolysis is slow like many wonder themselves. It is really a pleasure seeing her working at that pace.

  • And I also disagree with the prior statement which says that “laser work the exact same way than electrolysis”. That is not true. It may be that laser and electrolysis (thermolysis) produce heat in the end to destroy the follicle but thermolysis is high frecuency current and laser uses light to produce it. One needs the needle to be inserted into the follicle and the current starts at the point of the needle, which means that it starts at the depths of the follicle and go up the needle and the other, laser, produces the heat at the surface of the skin using a chromophore to go down the hair and destroy the follicle. The fundamentals of both systems are quite different.

Franteruel
Spain

#73

You people are really reading into things and only reading what you want to! No one said electrolysis isn’t for large areas of skin, of course it is. What we said was you can treat a huge area with laser in 1 tenth the time electrolysis said. It’s like walking 50km to another city, or driving there. Both get you there but driving is just way faster.

The statement about laser working the same was as electrolysis also isn’t meant literally. It’s meant that it will remove hair from you. Obviously it uses light where electrolysis uses electricity. I don’t think anyone here actually meant it literally.

I don’t know why there’s so much confusion here. Not one person here is doubting the results from electrolysis, not one. What we’re discussing is the fact that laser is faster and easier. If you want to say after completing treatment which is better, clearly electrolysis is as it will remove 100% of the hair, but that might not matter to some people. Why are you so against someone going for laser to remove 95% of the hair, then having electrolysis to finish it up? Why bother sitting through hours and hours removing hair when you can get rid of most of it immediately and quickly, and then finish with electrolysis?

Regardless, if you’re saying that Josefa is using some special method of electrolysis that works much better than anyone else, then that’s one thing. The fact of the matter though is that it seems like she’s the only one. So to come on here saying how electrolysis is faster and easier etc etc, it’s not entirely true. Sure it might be if you want to go off your study, but for 99% of the people on here going for electrolysis, it’s not true because those people aren’t using any different method.

#74

God! this thread is historical. It has made us two distinguished visitors “disappeared.”
You see Dee? Miracles do happen and I’ve seen the light, like Edokid.

Before his death, Goethe said: “Light, I want more light.”
I’m not Goethe or similar creature, but I also want light, more light.

#75

FADE TO BLACK

For the record, the problem with both electrolysis and LASER is that you can’t throw a dart into a phone book and find the same treatment in every place in the US. There is lots of
variation. I am not Fino, and I am not Bono, and they are not me. There are things one would like better about us all, and things one would not like about us all. The same would be true of LASER practitioners.

This is harder than comparing apples to oranges because even the apples are not the same, and the oranges are really tangerines, clementines, and so on.