There is, however, one single answer to all of this. One overriding and fundamental answer … I dare not speak of it! And, I won’t!
I’ll be GONE before my hairs are! I win!
Hopefully no one will answer to this thread anymore so I can finally move on lol.
LOL
(I always have to have the last word!)
Oh that would be nice wouldnt it? If I and everyone else would just stop responding to threads and let the subject die?
And Michael is correct, that when the hairs are gone so is the interest. Well that is unless you are a silly bitch like me and take it up as a profession.
There’s been a comment to the effect that “you are treating this as an engineer does” . I’m very familiar with this method of thought. You see my son, is severely autistic. It runs in my genetics. I have some qualities of autism inherited from my father ( who incidentally was a civil engineer!) and my 3 children, all have this to some extent. Ordered structured thinking, is the structure most commonly found. Incidentally many on the autism spectrum gravitate to “rule based” thinking and tend to be good at such structured processes such as mathmatics and engineering. When explaining concepts to my son, I’m often drawn into this by establishing rules, even around more artful things " First this, then this". As people somewhere on the autism spectrum, this allows us to put order to the chaos. It allows us to deal emotionally with the situation where the results, dont quite or necessarily follow the rules, but if I’m honest, when this happens, it can feel quite offensive. There’s a tendancy to take offense and flee from the situation.
Which is all well and good, except for one thing, it will freaking eat you up inside. You cant help yourself, you come back to the issue again and again, desperately trying to bring order to the chaos and deal with the ambiguity.To apply new rules, overtop the old rules, to explain the situation. It’s because of this that I’m sorry I dont believe you when you say you are hoping the topic quietly dies and you can have no further involvement.Because I dont believe you’ll be able to get over that structured thinking process.I also truly hope that is the case.I hope that it bothers you so much, that you too become the one that just CANNOT let it go.
Dealing with ambiguity, is one of the toughest things you will ever face in life, whether you deal with autism or are just average joe of society. In electrology, we deal with these “rules” that may or may not be accurate all the time Some examples of such rules are:
" a hair must be in Anogen Phase of growth to be destroyed"
“Thermolysis leads to scarring”
“Scarring is always caused by overtreatment”
“We kill the follicle by destroying the dermal papillae and so that is the primary target”
“If a practiioner shows results that dont comply with other “known rules” they must be a fraudster, a cheat, and a liar”
“hyperpigmentation is permanent”
“when performing electrolysis we are treating the hair multiple times until we “weaken it” to the point it cannot survive”
As outlandish and stupid as these thought patterns are, they are all just theories used to explain what we are seeing. Not one of them is anywhere near correct. in fact, all of them are blatently wrong. And yet these theories are still used, everyday, to TEACH electrolysis in schools and to explain results. But each of them will have some element of truth to them, but each fall short of adeuately explaining what is seen. There’s very little research into electrology( if any) , and so, we are left to decipher the rules, and create new ones as applicable, such as:
“hairs can be destroyed in any stage of hair growth”
“hyperpigmentation from electrology always fades completely given enough time”
“demonstated and shown results over several decades cannot be a fraud”
“Scarring is more likely to be the result of undertreatment than overtreatment”
We come up with new theories to adequately DO explain the results being seen. Are they correct? Maybe, but not necessarily. This is the art portion of electrology.But dont think for a second, that science and engineering isnt a part of this as well.
I once expressed a challenge to you. I’m about to express another one. Help us apply the science to the art of electrolysis. They are not mutually exlusive. In fact the trial of differing theories is the backbone of science and engineering itself.
Edit: As mentioned to you before, we WANT you asking questions.Challenging theories. Testing and retesting applied theories. This is the way that electrolysis , whether art form or science, advances and learning occurs. So that the “questions” from people like you can be quickly and efficiently answered. Sorry to call you out love, but in the words of Melissa Etheridge , one of my favourte singers in the whole world"
I’m a bitch, I’m a lover
I’m a child, I’m a mother
I’m a sinner, I’m a saint
I do not feel ashamed
I’m your hell, I’m your dream
I’m nothing in between
You know you wouldn’t want it any other way
Seana
Bravo! Great post! (I copied and saved it.)
Only one correction: it’s “anagen” not “anogen.”
Oh I had one more thought I wanted to express to you.
In 1876 some mad-scientest who happened to have a “medical” background tested a theory that he could disable an ingrown hair by zapping it with electricity. This was “mad thinking” at the time, and broke all the known “rules” . Thus electrology was born. That’s over 140 years ago now. Should be lots of time to establish the correct “rules” right? Well, Mathmatics, and science, stretch back before ancient greece, 1000’s of years. And yet new math, new theories, are tested and accepted or discarded to this very day. Asking questions, and testing theories, puts you right at the forefront of electrology “research” as it is today. It is from such humble beginnings that both art and science, progress. I cant see throwing that away.
There’s another rule too.
“Michael is never ever allowed to get the last word”
I’d be lying if that speech didn’t make me wanna stay lol.
I’ve been down this exact same road with another subject actually, and ended up alienating myself but mostly others, which is why I’m fearful to stay and continue. I’ve already started to annoy a few people here and it reminded me of things to come.
NAH, IT’S NOT TRUE.
It’s your own insecurities getting the best of you.
I guarantee , you have not offended anyone here. I faced these same self criticisms. Wasnt the case then either.
Try and not let the internal gremlins, mess with you.
Seana
Not necessarily offend, but at least annoyed a few!
Also no demons here, and I kinda just realized this now, but there really is no point in trying to find answers when they won’t change a thing in my treatments if I ever continue them.
There’s always going to be issues like convenience, transport, cost, length, pain, scars, etc. Well unless you get treated by Josefa apparently. Why would anyone ever get treated by someone who can’t kill every visible hairs in one sweep?! (No sarcasm here)
Michael’s 3 clearances? Pff amateur!
See where I’m going with this?
Actually I’m the one being annoyed now. Why the hell is there such a huge difference in operator skill? This bothers me so much you have no idea. How hard can it be to kill a fucking hair after a few years of experience (which let’s be real, all established electrologist have). There has to be something I’m missing!
Those are questions and annoyances I will never get answers to, so what’s the point? This is why I need to leave this place! FREEE MEEEE!!!
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Because while most focus on clearing an area (regardless of whether 20, 30, or 40% of the hairs are forced because they resist), I focus on killing each of the hairs individually as if it were the only existing bastard in that certain area.
Answer that to your question?
I’ve heard that before, why would an electrologist deliberately choose to not kill each and every hair? Financial reasons? More treatments = more money for them? Am I being too cynical?
No, I’m sure it’s not for financial reasons. It is how they have been trained.
"If the hair resists, no more than two attempts, or there will be overtreatment, so it is safer to force the hair." "If the hair is a telogen, there is not enough water, so after an attempt, the follicle has been sufficiently treated: so you have to force the hair … but you have to do it gently so that the client does not feel plucking ".
Of course, there are also those without scruples who force the hair without the slightest shame and still have the courage to show themselves in public. For example:
I could get annoyed even more and ask more questions but I won’t, I need to let this go! Any way I can contact you in a year or so for treatments? I promise I won’t talk about electro or creams during them lol.
zapmyface I’m wondering if you are going to travel all the way to spain to be treated?
I go to Europe every few years to see my family so why not do the little detour to get the best treatments. It’s what we’re all thinking right? Josefa offers the best treatments, it feels weird saying it (out of respect for all electrologists) but whatever.
And before her modesty kicks in, she showed a 2 clearance picture on a male beard with most hairs gone on another post, I’m not saying every patient gets those results, but with her it’s apparently possible! Has anyone ever done something similar?
quite often. I should note however that I cannot guarantee such a result, and neither can Josepha.Everyone is different as to their hair and skin history. Timing of clearances becomes crucially important in such a scenario.
You seem to be fixting on her quality of treatments and I dont believe that anyone , including Josepha, is going to be able to live up to your expectations .Sorry to be so blunt.
There are just as many good electrologists as poor ones. I’m sorry you seem to have lost faith in all .
Have you really seen 2 clearances on an untreated male beard remove most of the hair often? If that’s not a rare occurrence anymore, I can’t wait for someone to remove everything in one go!
And I’m aware it’s not about guarantee, but why showcase results like this if it’s not what clients could potentially expect then?
She proved that it’s apparently possible, so who’s not believing who now? SORRY TO BE BLUNT TOO.
I gave up on this topic, because a pernicious seeker-of-the truth ALWAYS becomes a “true believer.” In our own ranks (side-stepping these minutiae), I see this unfailingly.
A client gets one negative reaction from a particular machine; and “that machine is a bad machine.” Such clients will then specify a certain machine be used. A client gets great results, and has thus discovered the only therapist on the planet that can achieve results.
A beginning electrologist wants instant and simple answers, and once a tiny bit of information is divulged, suddenly becomes an expert on the entire subject. One over-treatment by thermolysis, and the DC-expert condemns all thermolysis users (Susan Laird). Well, you get the point.
When I was teaching in Holland there was Mrs. Rooperoos! She was a gigantic annoyance in my class because she would not shut-up about “her fantastic method.” We persisted and I taught her a “new method.” She then became a massively obnoxious supporter of me!
The whole thing is stupid and not worthy of comment … even though I just DID. “True-believers” (and TRUTH-seekers) are my Kryptonite.
Isn’t that what Josefa is doing on this forum though? She basically shows results that even some of you pros find incredible from what I’ve noticed.
You’re assuming I believe everything I read or see here. Also, I’m being pernicious on purpose by simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said or thought here. Double standards and group mentality is alive and well…
Pretty sure it’s mine too.