Electrolysis/Laser Feet, opinion - pic attached

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#61

Electrologists “leaving” hairtell because of pressure over their opinions from either consumers,or other electrologists. Gee, I wouldnt know anything about that :slight_smile: ( tongue firmly planted in cheek in case the sarcasm isnt properly conveyed) .

People “running off” because they got butthurt over having those opinions challenged.(insert sarcasm) I wouldnt know anything about that either because text always communicates inflection.
.Sure is hard to stand up for ones opinions around here isnt it?

Then there’s idiots like me and you Michael. And Josepha, and Dee, and Beate, and Dimi , heck I’ve seen Christine OConnell post recently. Like moths to a flame, we keep coming back. Why is that?
Because hairtell, and the interaction between consumer and electrologist that we all LOVE to hate…gets under your skin. You cant help yourself. You Michael see a big juicy well thought out question, and really, you cant help yourself. You jump in there.
I dont think we’ve seen the last of zapmyface either. I’ll be very disappointed if that’s the case.
But we dont get to ask the questiions, or censor what is asked. zapmyface has the questions he has, because that’s how his mind works. It doesnt matter that you “dont like the questions” or feel that to answer them is beneath you, he still has those questions, the “how comes” .
Long ago I gave you a label. I think you earned it with zapmyface. His questions werent “wrong” and to tell him that he would never be a client of yours, I think was a little hurtful. Actually I think he kind of idolized your opinions and interactions, and I dont think you were fair with him. I think a better wayto handle questions you dont want to answer is to just not answer them, then to do whats happened here.

But what do I know.I’m just an amatuer!

Seana

#62

Seana … YEAH!

#63

I’m assuming there’s some aspect of you all wanting to do the right thing by your profession. Within the hair removal industry more broadly, and more specifically within electrolysis, there is so much ignorance and misinformation and never enough people to dispel all of it.

I (maybe wrongly?) assume that’s why Michael used to receive hate mail from other electrologists and clients of other electrologists – ignorance and misinformation. As a consumer, who one day has hopes of doing electrology, I have heard from electrologists and other consumers who still believe that hairs must be in the right growth stage to be treated, that each hair must be treated several times, and that galvanic is the only “true” electrolysis that can deliver results.

And that’s just the beginning.

#64

Scurvy … HELL YES!

Now, think about this … me “doing this” for 43-years and getting the same “bazunka.” Still coming from schools and manufactures too. But as Seana has said, I need to just “suck it up” and take a vacation; a long one. Okay, not the exact works but the good meaning of it.

I now average three emails per day from clients with “marks” from electrolysis. I don’t know what to do or say any more. Maybe I’m just too damned old … probably so. I’m already in telogen … with exogen close at hand.

#65

Those results have surprised me as much as others. As with any other case of “untouched” hair, I was able to predict a high percentage of elimination, but honestly, not to this degree.

If I had been asked for an estimate regarding the number of necessary clearances, my response would have been similar to that of some of my colleagues. 3 clearings with an interval of 3 or 4 months. It is obvious that we can all make mistakes, but it is always wiser to offer a realistic perspective than to be too optimistic and disappoint the expectations.

What happened here? frankly, I do not know. If there is no risk of overtreatment, I always try to leave as few untreated hairs as possible. With such a high density of hair present and such deep roots, I tend to be very cautious with my settings, but who knows, maybe the treatment affected adjacent follicles?

According to Hinkel himself, this is plausible. Of course, in his book he refers to another modality, the Blend. However, this work was done with only HF (flash).
So … what is the explanation?

The key is at the point of this thread. 1) Thermolysis can be as effective as galvanic or blend. 2) A single clearance will achieve a certain percentage of permanent reduction that will depend on the percentage of hairs present and the skill of the operator.

Last but not least, I never heard from this client again until I saw the “after” picture. There was never a single message indicating concern about inflammation, redness, crusting, hyperpigmentation, etc. Nothing!. And believe me, I would bet my life that there must have been a lot of all these side effects.

For that, a big THANK YOU!

Note: The treated area was only toes.

#66

Great evaluation and backed up with research and experience, a humble opinion worth having and sharing. Thank you Josie for both the excellent treatment and knowledge.

This area developed small blisters, some hyperpigmentation which resided after a month and a half. Swelling was very minimal next to zero, apparantly unusually.

After two months they looked completely normal without side effects, the skin healed quite fast without use of creams etc. This area is generally hidden so not overly concerned with side effects, a friend of mine whom had electrolysis from Josefa showcased his scabbing/hyperpigmentation to me which all disappeared, so I was confident in my treatment/electrologist.

For those considering electrolysis this may be a great reminder to go on referrals in the first instance as opposed to photos etc if you’re fortunate enough to know someone who has/is getting good results as you can follow their treatment results/temporary side effects.

This, in my opinion is a better way to inform yourself and allay fears than talking to your electrologist as Michael mentioned, nothing beats a live stream.

This forum is how my friend came across Josefa in the first place. I hope this thread can help someone as a pleased client and testimony to Josefas work.

#67

I hate when people misinterpret what I’m saying so I’ll just come back for a sec to be very clear.

To Seana:

I’m ‘‘butthurt’’ because I’m pointing out flaws between people’s opinion or facts (not just this thread) and I’m the one suffering the consequences for it. If anything it’s others that feel offended in my pursuit of ‘‘the truth’’, not me.

To Michael:

First of all I never called you a liar, where did you read that exactly? I never attacked you or your ‘‘estimates’’, at least that’s not how I see it.

I was under the impression that the ‘’% of hidden hairs’’ was something established already on a normal body (or parts of the body). Look, when you said that there was 40 to 50% of hairs present in the pic, I assumed it was the norm on toes, and since it made no sense how most of the hairs were gone after only 1 clearance according to everyone’s statements, I had to call it out, that’s it!

If this was simply an ‘‘estimate’’ on your part, I was the one who misinterpreted the whole thing. But either way, what’s wrong in calling out a clearly wrong estimate or an established fact? Since you were a little rude, allow me to return the favour: Did your ego get in the way? Going off on me like that and barring me from your practice really wasn’t necessary.

To everyone else:

It’s not that I don’t believe in Josefa’s work, but COMPARED to some other treatments I’ve heard about, or experienced myself, it seems absurd how she can be this fast with this little regrowth. I’m GLAD if this is truly the case, but you can see why one would at least have some reservations (or should I say jealousy) over it. I honestly just wanted to understand why or how there was such a huge difference between some electrologists (or even some treatments with the same electrologist since Josefa herself was surprised at the results), that’s it!

#68

I’m glad you came back around, regardless.

Having you around it’s a bit like the kid who read the coles notes on debate, joining the debate team.I know you are just
trying to work your brain around the details,but this is what I’m talking about when I say the “art” of electrolysis.
Nearly everything we discuss, is un-measureable.It’s all subjective opinion for the most part.
Because As Josepha points out, even she can have better or worse results.
It truly is art in it’s finest form, and Josepha is an old master.That’s the “how come” .And yes, she has hadplenty of people call her a liar, (or a lot worse) but the results, speak to themselves.

#69

My dear Seana, my skin has become quite thick lately. There are those who call it “survival instinct”.

I have been accused of so many things: lying in my “before & after” cases; press and blackmail clients in exchange for permission to use their photos; lack of professionalism and transparency; and a very funny that begins to become a habit, use false identities to promote my services in Hairtell, WOW!!!.. not to mention others that at this moment I can not remember.

Zapmyface, let me tell you what is for me utterly absurd in this “charming” profession. What is really absurd is that a professional with 20, 30, or 40 years of career is not able to foresee and guarantee the results of her/his own work with an almost mathematical precision when conditions permit. Conditions that have been discussed many times here, but that I can repeat one more time: a) Start the treatments with a maximum of hairs present on the surface of the skin, b) Carry out precise insertions, and c) Zero traction for absolutely every one of the hairs.

In recent years, I have had the opportunity to see for myself the results of several of my colleagues, and while I could see some reduction in most of them (some more than others), I only worked in one case where the estimates from a previous practitioner coincided exactly with the time that I needed to make the second clearing. Guess who?

#70

ohhhhh…is there a prize for guessing correctly? I could use an all expenses paid trip to Malaga to have my neck cleared! I’m going to guess the previous practioner has the initials MB.

Seana has one of the biggest backs around.I Carry a lot of weight around on it and I’ve become everyones favourite whipping girl. I think this is normal? I just dont know anymore.

#71

Bingo Seana! I’m sure there are more fun prizes, but of course, I would be happy to meet you personally.

As for the lashes on your back, try to avoid them as much as possible. The first will come without waiting for them, but with practice, one becomes an agile contortionist. :wink:

#72

I hope you realize that when I said that you were using a false identity to promote your services, it was a clear joke…

What if all those ‘‘accusations’’ were also from people like me trying to understand how some electrologists here can kill a good chunk of hairs in one single clearance while some spend years of weekly sessions to get the same results?

I don’t think I’ve ‘‘accused’’ anyone, but if I did, let me just say that there was never any ill intent, I was simply looking for some kind of truth (and I’ve said this way too many times already it’s getting exhausting).

#73

Take the anxiety off your shoulder and stick around zapmyface.

Josepha was talking about things that have occurred to her for years as a result of sharing graciously of her knowledge and skill.Long before you were around. I guarantee she is the last to take offense.

I think after all this mediating you owe me a coffee and chat at some point. Ever get to ottawa?

Seana

#74

Zapmyface, believe me, I’ve tried, but I can not understand your point of view. Am I being “accused” because I’m doing my job trying to get the best and fastest results possible?

Perhaps Michael and I have not documented dozens of cases with similar results? Have we not described what we do and shown how we do it? Has the world gone mad, and now you have earned the right to be a victim of your own work?

#75

The results you post are so far ahead from what most people experience with some (a lot?) electrologists, do you realize this?

It really depends on how you look at it, you might see it as an accusation that your posts are misguided, but I see it as a huge difference in skill which makes it very annoying for people who spent so much more time and money on their end to never get the same results.

How many times do I have to say that I’M GLAD that your results are as amazing as you post them here! I just wish more people could experience them with their own electrologists.

This is maybe where all those ‘’accusations’’ come from, from a place of ‘’jealousy’’ that they couldn’t get the same treatments themselves. Do you really not see why some people can be fed up after years of weekly/monthly treatments, while you post a 1-2 clearance on a foot or face that removes most of the hair?!

P.S. Seana, as much as I’ve appreciated the help and talks we’ve had, I will never speak about electro to anyone ever again, I’m just here to finish getting my point across in this thread then I’m out. (And I’m pretty sure I’m not the one taking things personally here.)

#76

Jossie, yes! The (near) fatal flaw of electrology is one factor: operator. Sometimes “results” are so different that you wonder if this is really ONE profession.

Overwhelmingly, I have seen two main concerns of client/posters: 1) How do I determine if I’m getting the best results or seeing the best electrologist? 2) What do all these post-treatment marks mean?

Clients ask the wrong questions … and focus on the wrong issues. Maybe, with more media on client concerns this could be improved. But I doubt it? Clients have an inherent tendency to ask the same questions, regardless of the thousands of times the same questions have been answered.

Finally, I’m tired of shouting at the abyss because the abyss is starting to shout back!

#77

I posted this in the wrong thread … sorry.

#78

To answer zapmyface? It’s like this. Those of us posting here, with decades of experience, are not withholding information as you seem to imply. Indeed, when you find your TRUTH … please let me know! (“Truth”?) There is no certitude in this field. You want absolute answers and, actually, we do too. It’s just that such answers are not forthcoming. (Maybe not possible.)

This “profession” is, in reality, a cottage industry. Many people are self-taught. There is no universal curriculum and the schools teach different concepts. Manufacturers jealously guard their “trade secrets.” Information is shared by a scant few. The associations are often prisons of reactionary thinking: closely guarding their domain and often ruled by people who banish opposing (or different) ideas.

Add-in the individual jealously of many operators … their general lack of education and unwillingness to read (most only have a high school education, but that’s not required). There is little to no communication within the ranks (except for a few on Facebook or those willing to “put themselves out there”), and generally no communication about the real “meat” of the profession. (Lots of chit-chat about CREAMS!)

We have no professional magazine or “go-too” source. On top of all this, you have a clientele that is fearful of talking about their “hair secret,” so there is little public communication on the issue. Make that: no embarrassing public exposure! Thus, no mirror for the profession and no pressure to improve. Generally, the profession is solitary: one-person isolated fiefdoms with their own devised “secret” methodology; that takes pot-shots at all the other “methods.” The “Modality Wars.”

And, this post? Nobody is listening and nothing will change. Tomorrow somebody will be talking about how their modality "hurts less, is better than, and all the other methods are crap, etc … " And, another client will be posting photos of his/her brown spots, red spots and, of course, scars.

So you “grab us by the neck” and demand “the truth?” I’d like to know it too! When you get the answers, let me know!

#79

Ya that’s what I’ve started to conclude and also why there’s no point in asking questions anymore. Kinda impossible to get answers (to some questions), since it does seem to be more of an an art-form than anything else really, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Honestly, the only thing I’ll reproach myself is that I cared too much!

#80

Try not to feel too sorry for yourself. Those of us that take this profession “to heart” have contributed a lot; but we’ve not seen much in return (that is, significant growth within the ranks … open minds).

Every now-and-then we get the focused learner: somebody having treatments who delves into this “thing” with extreme enthusiasm. Some time ago, there was “Brenton” who, by his own forcefulness, became an expert in the field. Lots of us nurtured him in hopes that his writings would bring more understanding to everybody.

Then, as always happens when the hairs are GONE, Brenton disappeared along with his hairs. The hairs evaporate, and the client’s interest in the subject goes to absolute ZERO! (As it should.) Lots of invested effort … and no return. So, as in your case, my answers are very short and attenuated at best. Okay, curt.

If I chose to take the time, I’ll write another book or make a video. If a client really wants to research this topic, he has to be willing to invest more than just demanding people answer his questions. Or, making recriminating (but funny/sarcastic) remarks. You know, there are lots of books, and other sources, in the field.

But honestly, when the hairs are gone … you will be too! Still, I seriously hope you get great results. You should! You deserve it.

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