Opps ok now i know & i will not say nice things to you about you anymore, or i will try.
I was once hypnotized by a RAVEEN record when i was about ten years old! Remember “the great Raveen”? Only thing was my young pal never did play side B which is supposed to take you OUT of your hypno state! So therefor i am still a chicken …bawk!
Oh yeah, last Christmas I was able to see how the compliments annoy you. We Hispanics tend to externalize our feelings easily, especially when they are about someone you admire greatly.
The lesson was hard to learn, but I finally realized that if you really want to please Michael, you should AVOID ALL kind of compliments, especially if done in public.
This is what he would say to anyone who insists on it: “[size:17pt]Cut the crap, kid”[/size] 
[color:#009900]Hey Everybody,
Yeah I actually hate gifts of any sort as well. I tell people not to buy me a thing, ever.
You know as I wasjust telling James, I use hypnosis like you wouldn’t believe. One of my siblings is a psychologist that uses it in her practice occasionally. We talk about the latest research and techniques. I am really into the workings of the subconscious. I’m currently reading a book by David Eagleton called “Incognito”. It’s good, thought it would be better. His interview on public radio was better. “Blink” by Malcolm Gladwell is good too, and some other titles.
The subconscious is fascinating, but don’t use it pain. If anything electrolysis related, then more for productivity and drive to succeed. You can use hypnosis to get up early, eat better, exercise, be happy. It’s really great. What I think is weird is how dismal our subconsciouses can be if left ignored. That’s why you have all these alcoholics, overweight, and angry people. It’s just really interesting once you establish a communication, how you can program it.
Nice hearing the back story on the book, but I liked the long version. I liked all the minutiae. Actually this book talk had me dusting off my books and perusing them again, which was sorely overdue. Speaking of learning materials, you know, what I always wanted to get from TES is one of those big plaster hair/follicle models. The giant wall chart just won’t do, I want the actual two-foot plaster model with removable papilla, hair shaft, and sebaceous gland.
Anyway @Anybody who cares:
Last night I worked on cleaning up the left abdomen, and doing more work on the right side abdomen. The left side (initial clearing) is about 95%-97% done, and the right side about 80% done (initial clearing). My lower border for the work is about three inches south of the naval. The upper border is about four or five inches north of the pectoral line (field of view is limiter) and north of this, from the upper pectoral line to the base of the neck, was done by a pro in the past (an initial clearing), but still needs cleanup work.
The work is going fast, but the work itself is bumpy due to the area’s treatment history with laser rotary epilators, waxing, and plucking. It’s too inconsistent to use auto-insert settings. Too much pulling back and re-trying. I really want to break into auto-insert speed because I know how fast the work moves.
What I think is weird is the way abdomen hair just “stops” once you get a little over to the sides. It’s like "hair ends here! No more hair for the rib-sides! I mean, you have all this hair on the “tummy”, then it just stops. It’s like the edge of the world or something.
What I want to know is, does everybody have those “split/twin” hair follicles on their abdomens? I don’t have them anywhere else. Nowhere. But they are on my stomach. Is that just a natural hair type that starts in the pelvic region and sometimes finds it’s way to the stomach? These hairs are almost always two shafts sharing one follicle, I’d say 10% of the time it requires putting the probe down two close but seperate hair follicles to get both hairs out cleanly.
There was a discussion over in the pro forum that talked about follicles “crossing”, but this is more of a regular occurance of two shafts growing in one follicle our of one papilla(?).
I have always thought the laser treatments had something to do with it. Truthfully, a laser spitting out that much irradiation could mutate it just about any way possible, but on such a consistent scale? Just wondering if i’s natural or induced.
I may experiment with a bigger needle once I get to the lower pelvis, I think a Ballet F3G struggles with those really heavy duty hairs.
Btw: There are quite a few ingowns here. I have to learn to just pass them by. It’s too distracting to pause every five or ten minutes to go at another with a lancet. Besides, I find the kill rate with ingrowns low. Most I find seem to be in Telogen phase anyway. The insertions into a freshly plied ingrown seems to be more guesswork. But I do have my successes. Pry it loose, tug on it, if it’s resisting give it a shot, if no resistance and the hair slides out, leave it alone. Wait till next time.
That’s it for now. Todays a “shave day”. I’m hitting at two days after shaving (optimal), three if I’m lucky. Most other areas three days after shaving has been optimal, abdomen you got to get them when they barely, barely break the surface. Much better insertion accuracy. Or, maybe it’s the past history that’s calling for this. Next day is Friday, maybe Saturday too. That would make about four two-hour sessions for the week.
Mantaray[/color]
Pili multigemini is a malformation characterized by the presence of bifurcated or multiple divided hair matrices and papillae, giving rise to the formation of multiple hair shafts within the individual follicles.
[color:#990000]Hey Hairadicator,
Pili multigemini…? That’s weird. I’ve been reading on it ever since I saw your post with the term. That’s really weird. I even found another person that had it just on the stomach like me. Thank you for that. That goes down as one of the gems I’ve learned in this forum. It never even occured to me to look it up as a disorder.
http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Have-Pili-Multigemini/92380
No wonder I have to do this weird insert song-and-dance when I kill them. They all seem to be in a bowed pattern. Like the hairs have very close papillae, but then they bow out, then they seem to come together at the exit of the follicle. One papilla seem to be located just barely below and slightly to the side of the other, like stair-steps, at least that’s how they seem to extract over and over, in a clump. I mean it, they come out like megalithic tree trunks, like this big apparatus is being extracted. No wonder it feels so good to get them out. I have noticed a huge, huge difference of the feel and look of my abdomen skin now that i have extracted the majority of them.
I mean, I have cleared areas here and there, but this work on my stomach is like night and day once cleared. Even unhealed, and with eschars, I look at my stomach and think ‘amazing difference’. Seriously, those coarse double hairs make a big difference when they are present, and then removed.
It’s the only place that I have them so I’m lucky I can get at them. I read the accounts of people that have them all over and it’s a real concern to cope with. They seem to occur in patches. Most say they grow faster than normal hairs.
Thanks. And btw, I visited your good site. Your video is very good.
Mantaray[/color]
When treating PMG follicles I generally apply slightly higher treatment energy via timing, intensity or pulsing. To improve comfort, I use the largest needle that will fit in the follicle without dimpling the skin during insertion. Sometimes I will apply current at three separate locations like treating the bottom corners or a pyramid. Treating multiple times at different depths is also a viable option, however it is important to realize these techniques are only for those with advanced skill (DIY or professional). I have been an electrologist for over 32 years and remain very diligent and careful when I decide to use this approach.
On my thighs I have plenty of two hairs from one follicle. But after close watching, it happens to be one hair is in anagen, and another hair is in late telogen simply being stucked in the same follicle. By very gently testing these hairs with tweezes, the telogen hair simply fall out.
Each hair in a pili-multigemini cluster will its own cycle, unrelated to adjacent hairs.
[color:#990000]Hairadicator,
I’m just wondering. next to your name and on your site, you have that beautifully clear micrograph image of that spiralling hair follicle. I look at that thing and think, how would one possibly do a good clean hit on that? Is something like that blend material only?
Thank goodness I don’t have to hit those all day.
Mantaray[/color]
All modalities are equally capable of eliminating the regenerative powers of a hair follicle. To properly administer each, one must understand the behavior of that modality so the desired end result can be achieved. The individual expertise of the electrologist/end user makes all the difference!
[color:#990000]Hi All,
Time for another carefully planned attack on my lower abdomen. Thought the area was going to be like a march into Paris, but it’s turned into trench warefar. All that rotary epilating/and or laser/and or waxing has really left it unpredictable. Are you guys sick of hearing about my abdomen? Sorry. I’m kind of sick of getting the ingrowns out. But it is going good and i like the results, a lot.
Let’s see session wise: 1, 1.5, 2, 1.5, 1.5, and today 2, so 9.5 hours more or less with about 90% initial clearence, and that’s even fine hairs, all within two weeks or so. This is all from the pectoral line, to the bottom of abdomen. Lots of time fussing with ingrowns. Mostly, because I want to get good clean hits and extractions of them.
Mantaray[/color]
[color:#3333FF]Im not sick of hearing about your ingrown abdomen trench warfare! Bombs away![/color]
How do you find treating the fine hairs compared to the thick mothers? HAve you ever tried the Laurier probes?
[color:#CC0000]Hey All You DIY’ers,
Told myself I would finish this Abdomen this week. Wouldn’t you know it that I extracted the last hair at 11:58pm Sunday night. Whew. Close. I’m happy. Got the full initial clearance done. Feels good. I’m going to lay off the area for a while and let it heal up. I’ll probably clean up upper chest and start moving into upper arms while that’s healing. I spent three hours last night and was so focused and bent on finishing it that I was exhausted. It was a sharp, determined three hour session, all flash. I’ll do another round of flash, then maybe consider some blend. I think blend will be needed for some of these distorted-bottom follicles.
I honestly thought Abdomen would be a total bear. I even avoided it, or rather, procrastinated on it. But once started, no pain killers, no emla, it cleared good. So, the take home: keep your needle going, your foot tapping on the pedal, and soon you’ll be done with that hair, whatever your working on.
Mantaray[/color]
[color:#003300]Okay DIY’ers,
Now for the really, really great post. ~ ~ ~
Are you ready?
The Cost I Saved Learning Do-It-Yourself Electrolysis:
I save all my needles. There was a discussion where a few talked about what they did with their needles. It reminded me, and gave me an inspiration.
I use my needles for entire sessions, usually over multiple days. The needle I’m using now, I used for my entire two weeks of adbdomen work, about ten hours of work. It’s still good, cleaned, and sitting there for my next session. Now, in this estimate, I am lowballing, that is I am using the lowest estimation for legitimacy, truth, and no over-exageration. So these figures are 100% reliable, at least.
I counted 354 Ballet F3 needles. About seven packs.
At 354 needles x 2 hours of electrolysis each = 708 hours of DIY Electrolysis.
At 708 Hours x $70/hr. for an office visit = $49,560.00 dollars
At 708 hours to an office, low estimating $5.00 of gas needed to get there = $3,540 dollars for gas.
For 708 office visits total, at least saved doing DIY = $53,100.00
And if you want to estimate 15 minutes to get there and worked on, and 15 minutes to get out of the office and home, 1.5 hours per visit needed, then = 1,062 hours taken
That’s more than 44 whole days lost. But you’re going to lose those at home as well i should add.
But interestingly, I did this work in just a few short years, and in those short years, my machines sat unused a lot, one year at least. . At 52 weekly visits per year, budgeting $280/month, it would take 13.6 years of visits to get all this done with weekly visits. Tremendously speeding up the time table.
So there you have it, I have saved $53,100.00 U.S. Dollars doing DIY electrolysis in just a few short years.
I have all receipts, my cost to get started was less than $600, and the areas are completely cleared for proof.
In light of this, I have changed my strategy. I was going to re-start pro visits soon to get my back, and other parts cleared. Now, I’m going to start an very focused campaign to recruit an able and promising Co-DIYer here in San Diego. It would be worth it even if it took months to train them. It would still be cost effective.
Interesting.
Mantaray
This post made in ‘money green’[/color]
Congratulations my friend.
The only water I will throw onto this is that a professional would have been expected to work a little bit faster, and get a few more hairs per hour, so your real money saved would be less than your estimate… we hope! 
THIS THREAD:
$53,000? Well, that would be about SEVEN (back and chest) cases: done, finished and “in the bag.”
I did DIY electrolysis for 3 years before attending Hinkel’s school. What an experience (I mean the “DIY!”)
[color:#CC0000]Hey DIYers and potential DIYers
I have a lot of respect for both of the pros above, you know that. But here I really have to be honest. Those numbers are low range numbers, chances are, about half those needles were used for three hour sessions. My mantra at the time was eight hours solid a week. My old posts, I think may explain this.
That’s a low figure. Also, all my pros eventually conceeded I was faster than them. I’m just a normal person, so are they. None of them used auto-trigger (on insert delay), maybe combined with Flash three-pulse. I used that fluently. Even on big, inviting expanses, none of the pros I went to would go into ‘hyperspace’.
With all due respect, there are many potential DIYers out there that really need to see this isn’t surgery. It doesn’t even require a license in some states. One just needs:
- A Flash capable machine
- Excellent 3.5x -4.5x magnification loupes (a huge factor)
- A good strong lamp
- Quality tweezers
There’s little stuff like lancets, needles, and witchhazel, but that’s nothing. With a $650 dollar investment you can move mountains with enough inner drive.
I say don’t start with a One-Touch, it’s a waste of time. It doesn’t give a good idea of how it really is. I mean, it takes like a minute to get one or two hairs. Even if one got good with one, it’s still discouraging, they will throw it away whether they get good or not. One-Touches set potential DIYers up for failure. Just to start you mean? No! Just to start go get a used Silhouet-Tone that can do .09 second Thermolysis hits.
I mean, when one learns to drive, does one go out and get a gas-powered go-cart to take on the street? No, one buys a full-functioning automobile that allows them to drive like they are supposed to drive.
This is something many, many can do. I have proved that factually. And I have perfect clearance on entire legs, entire feet (and they were furry!), bikini, now getting to second and third sweeps on upper chest and stomach. No scarring from flash mode.
$53,100.00 saved
Mantaray
[/color]
All true statements. Bravo!
Over the years, I have trained at least 4 or 5 people (former clients) that had TONS of hair and no money: bad combination. I got them machines (good used ones); got them going and they all did a pretty decent job (actually I gave 2 of them — free of course — my old units). Terrific if you can find another “DIY” in your area to work together, especially on the hard-to-reach spots. (I think there is a good prospect in your area!)
I’m an ardent supporter of licensing, but the dirty little secret is that licensing does not ensure excellence. Most State sponsored tests are only looking for basic skills and comprehensive understanding of safety issues. Indeed, these tests ARE appropriate; since no official agency can certify excellence. Still, “no license at all” is an invitation to scammers and sub-standard work.
I suppose at my age, it doesn’t matter any more. BUT, I still have a couple unfinished areas in the back. I see Mantaray lives in San Diego. Hummm, maybe we can do an “exchange?” I’ve got some time in February. It would be fun to experiment with the different techniques/modalities too. (I’m always up for a challenge!) Now what about that Mr. Elasmobranch?
That made me smile. How I would love to be there as student/assistant !!
I would be interested as well.