That made me smile. How I would love to be there as student/assistant !!
I would be interested as well.
[color:#990000]Hey Mike,
You know (laughing), when I first read your post I was so honored. I was thinking, imagine that, working on the person who wrote the defintive book on the subject. I was thinking, I could tell all my friends! - Then I paused, and said…
- Wait…
Now this guy DIY’d for two and a half years, got everything he could, then had a few students work on him, and (laughing more now)he most likely let them get everything a student wouldn’t balk at.
- So.
What does that leave me to prove my skills? :o
- Look, Mike, you’re a great guy, really, and you wrote a great book. But there ain’t no way in h*** I’m gonna work on another man’s derriere. It just ain’t gonna happen. You’re gonna have to let one of your future, very dedicated students do that. I ain’t gettin’ close, no way man.
See, that’s the deal with working with a teacher such as in demand as Mike. So many students are trained by him, all doing different parts of his self, that the later you get there, you get the rinds to practice on. This is just a really humorous concept, of “The Electrology Teacher In Demand.” Get there early.
This is a humorous post, I know you hate attention,(laughing just writing this) just ignore it if it’s irksome. really.
Mantaray
Just no way man! Just no way 
[/color]
Found myself navigating the forums again so i figured i’d pass something by you guys. When i explained this technique to my electrologist she looked at me like she had no idea what i was talking about. Her explanation was that most of performing electrolysis was intuition, i’m not going to argue over that. But i’m a man and i don’t think i possess a women’s intuition in hair removal, i’d rather have facts that i can use. I have a very white skin tone which i guess is a gift in the world of hair removal.
Anyway, like i’ve said before, i graduated from One Touch University. I read the manual pretty thoroughly and the one thing that i did take from it is insertions into the follicle should be made behind and following the direction the hair is growing. Anyway as i explained in a previous post i like to grow my hair out for 5 days before i treat them. My theory behind this is given my skin tone i can actually see the dark follicle and the proper angle it is manifesting itself under the skin giving me a path to insert the probe into by first following behind the hair and then inserting into the ‘dark area’ under the skin. I’ve noticed the darker the follicle i treat the greater the chance i have to kill the follicle. If pics would be more helpful by all means i can take some to illustrate. Just let me know.
Any experience/thoughts?
Ah! Also! Is there anyone who uses the ‘hair wrapping’ technique (is there a proper name for this?). Basically i find that while inserting the needle into the follicle i can wrap the hair around the needle and insert it to find a more exact location.
i’m not sure where you guys were going with the last couple of posts but i think when bono said back he meant the reverse side of his upper body.
I just read Mantray’s post. I’m not thrilled about working on the culo either, but after some time it’s not problem at all. You just pull the tape, put on your telescopes and go for it (GLOVES of course).
I work everywhere: to me is “just hair.”
And, yes, I only have half my culo done! Now that’s odd. (There is a pun here … and I’m sure somebody’s going to write it!)
And, that’s the deal: I work with you and you do my left “cheek;” not the face either.
Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without inference and/or the use of reason. Dangerous!
[color:#CC0000]Hey iLikeDIY,
That’s a good post you put up. Okay, well, about electrology being intuition? Nah, that’s “Us Girls” talk. Besides ‘intuition’ is nothing more than faint thoughts and suggestions from the subconscious. Yeah, I know, some women here are gonna say that women have some connection to the spiritual world that men don’t have. Not true. They just have a thinner cognitive barrier between the conscious and the subconcious, which is why they’re easier to hypnotize (for a major / most part), and maternal instincts are so strong. Electrology has nothing to do with this.
What can be said though is that Estrogen has an effect on the brain that induces finer motor control dexterity. Which is why women have much better handwritting, and can usually do well at small electronics assemply type things. men have estrogen effects in their brains as well, but not at that level. That would have been more in her defense.
Anyway, three days growth is my standard length. I am hitting stomach at two days though (two & three) because I find the hair angles on the stomach distort at three days. I can feel a big difference in the insertions; the longer I wait, three days, four days, etc., the more I can feel the insertions because the entry angles are off. Something tells me you are working on very straight, course hairs. Those can keep their angles relatively good four days out of the follicle.
My last pro and me kind of made a pact: three days growth when I stepped ino her office. She thought that was optimal (Flash, Apilus Senior II, back of upper thighs, upper chest). I watch that video by Depilacionelectr over there in Spain (an very polished, professional video), and she seems to work on big, fully grown leg hairs with ease. That would slow me down. Yeah, I could do it, but my auto-insert speed factor would suffer. The shorter the shaft, the easier to line up your shot is what I think.
I know what you mean by the “wrap technique”. I don’t do that, but sometimes something similar, but only in a half-circle motion to get alongside the hair. What ever works, you know. I’m sure your understudies will refer to you as “iLikeDIY: the pioneer of the wrap technique, he was our mentor.” I find myself doing all kinds of stuff sometimes. I usually multi-hit in patterns, like boxes, lines, zigzags, crosses, so I can more easily remember what I multi-hit on auto-insert, you know, to extract with forceps.
@mike > The coroner’s gonna look at you mighy funny if you don’t get that taken care of soon. HA.[/color]
[color:#006600]Also,
One of you posted something about DIYing toes the other day. The person said something about contorting unnaturally.
Funny how they just mentioned that, because I had just PM’d somebody about the difficulty of doing toes. With me, I could easily see them, the visibility was good with my 3.5X - 17.7 inch focal length loupes, but the insertions were a bear. It was like a rite of passage. They were worked on by a pro as well (blend) and she really only dented the hair. It wasn’t till I attacked them with flash, -and very tedious, careful inserts- that the hair went away.
I remember thinking, “these follicles aren’t aligned in any predictable pattern!” and just working the needle till it ‘felt’ like it was going down a follicle. And I was a newbie back then. That was my very, very first task. It was frustrating back then, to repeatedly hit a hair, only to puck it and see the hair shaft take this sharp left or right turn angle as soon as it disappeared under the skin. I basically came to the axiom: “Hair on toes must be done slowly, very, very slowly. Each insertion must be very carefully monitored for feeling, dimpling, and needle bend nuances, to help guide it into the true follicle.”
My body is getting mostly hair free now, but my toes are my badge of courage.[/color]
[color:#6600CC]
Hmm wrapping my brain around how one FEELS the end of the follicle, or the target point, with a metal needle that has no feelings.[/color]
But i have a ways to go on all this …so maybe one day i will get it…and yeah hopefully being a woman with a thin brain membrane will greatly help :whistle:
[color:#009900]
“Each insertion must be very carefully monitored for feeling, dimpling, and needle bend nuances, to help guide it into the true follicle.”[/color]
IT WOULD BE SO GREAT TO SEE A VIDEO POSTED on THAT !! A picture is worth a thousand words, a video worth a million.
your hold on the probe should be tight enough to guide it, but light enough that obstructions make it slide past your fingertips. Many people who get paid for this still don’t know how to do this.
[color:#006600]Hey James,
Since you’re in the neighborhood, do you mind if I ask you a question, and not about the avatar either, what do you know of electrodessication of say, a plantar wart? I know they give anesthetic beforehand, and the video on youtube doesn’t really show much detail. They deliver an electric current with a needle, but i was wondering what kind of needle, what kind of current, and how many times. It’s a lot bigger than a follicle (?)
Does anybody know if a electrolysis machine can be used for that?
Just wondering[/color]
Yeah as i recall there is some sort of special probe/needle combination. With a wart, i think you’re still cauterizing the tissue just like Telangiectasia.
Maybe this? http://www.arhinkel.com/script/showprod.pl?item=BALTEL&group=accessories
It’s a K shank… But they come in F shank as well. Here goes me and my internet shopping addiction, i just ordered Bono’s Telangiectasia book and the proper needles. I’m going to give it a read, and if you want to buy it off me after that i’d be happy to sell it to you, at a discount of course :).
On a side note: Mantaray my general method of attack for big areas is to remove using thermolysis at first for a quick clearance and then using blend or galvanic for hairs that are distorted or that i know won’t be destroyed with thermolysis. I read somewhere that even if there is not a direct/clear pathway into the follicle, the galvanic lye will somehow still seep into the follicle destroying it.
Supposedly the galvanic lye also will correct a distorted follicle, hopefully this is helpful!
Keep in mind with the thermolysis removal i am mindful that subsequent insertions in the same general area can damage skin a lot more than galvanic… and illustration is provided here: http://www.hairzapper.com/thermolysis.htm under illustration of how skin damage in thermolysis occurs.
I tried editing this post to recognize carriage returns but the UBB code still isn’t recognizing them. Sorry for the sloppy post.
[color:#990000]Hey iLikeDIY,
About the book, yeah, I should take that off your hands, but don’t you keep your books? We’ll talk later.
Yeah, that’s going to become my strategy for this stomach work. Talk about distorted follicles. So many ingrowns… It’s really frustrating to work on the area. I think it was the laser treatments. I’m pretty sure. And, I figure I’m one of the few people that can stand up and justify it. It’s kind of like this:
Rotary epilated: stomach, chest
Plucked: stomach, chest
Waxed: stomach, chest
Lasered: only stomach 5x’s
Complications: only stomach has serious and extensive ingrowns and follicle deformations.
…So I can’t really say for sure, but i would bet on it. It’s the only difference in the two areas, and these two areas re very similar in terms of growth density and hair coarseness. And I’m looking at everything with loupes. What I should’ve done was to count ingrown density per square 4 inch patches, to quantify it. But, you know, like before and after pictures, I just want to get stuff done in my rush.
Yeah, I’m actually going to re-read Bono’s chapters on blend, and re-read my machine’s manual to verse myself in blend again, and will take a strategy like that as well. No straight galvanic though. I just don’t have patience for that. You’re a former One Touch person, so I guess it comes natural to you.
Yeah, you should apologize for your ‘sloppy’ post, how dare you insult my eyes! I gasped in its horror. :o
Wouldn’t it be weird to just manually inject NaOH (lye) directly into the follicle instead of using electrical current to produce it? HA I just thought of that. I used a machine in labwork once called an auto-pipette. It had a foot-pedal and would dispense micro-liter quantities of fluids with each pedal press via servo-motor controlled syringes. So, put a needle on it, and dispense NaOH? Hmm… Sounds somewhat insane being that sodium hydroxide is a very strong base and could do serious damage. But what if diluted and buffered? Wow, wonder if anyone’s tried to work out the biology of that.
Mantaray [/color]
[color:#006600]…And look what I just found:
Patent 3794028 - METHOD FOR INJECTING CHEMICALS INTO THE PAPILLA FOR DEPILATION
http://www.ptodirect.com/Results/Patents?query=PN/3794028
1974
Mantaray[/color]
VERY INTERESTING
The hair removal world is full of gadgets and gizmos (patented) that never saw the light of day outside of an idea or schematic.
I know I am late, but, to answer your question, you can use most probes to do such work, but the stiffer the probe, the easier it would be to use. As such, a Ballet size 6 would be the top of the firmness in that line. One would also find it better to use a blend process for warts, skin tags, moles, and such. Of course, that is my opinion, and I am sure there are those who will leap to disagree. They are welcome to share their experience and insights.
A month ago, I had a funny “age spot” appear on my arm. Dr. Chapple thought it was just a mole, but since it had developed in the last 6 weeks, he removed the whole thing (surrounding tissue too). The initial tests said the lesion was benign, but the frozen section showed this to be a cancer. And, that’s the point.
Even an experienced medical doctor cannot determine if a lesion is benign or cancerous. Warts, moles, skin tags and age spots should not be removed by anyone but a physician … and then biopsy performed if indicated. A hair or a telangiectasia (capillary) is a pretty safe bet that that is exactly what it appears to be … very little risk here. We should not go beyond that (and yes, removing blood vessels by non-medical people is also “questionable” by various authorities.)
I was on the phone this week with a woman that wanted me to tell her how to remove sebaceous hyperplasia and other lesions with her electrolysis unit. I don’t think any of us should do such lesions. Can you imagine “erasing” a perceived “age spot,” only to find it was a cancer that had been allowed to grow and become life threatening?
Yes, MANY of the “T-Tron” type devices (and electrolysis units) include instructions for removing all kinds of lesions … by estheticians. I’m against this practice. Just because you CAN do it, doesn’t mean you SHOULD.
Basically, stick to hair removal.
[font:Book Antiqua][size:11pt][color:#000099]Sounds right Michael. There was another post with a link to a video where a red mark, looked like maybe a tiny broken capillary or something right under the skin , nothing raised. The video showed the tiny red dot as it disappeared with a tiny, shallow pulse from the needle. It was done by a pro E. in real time.
Not certain of the name of the mark , a cherry something and not sure where the thread is, but if i find it i will link a photo.That is exactly what has appeared on my forehead about 6 months ago. I think its from my past life in India.
my E said he could easily do it but it did not work at all, in fact it looks a little worse.
If you know what that red dot is that i am referring to Michael do you include that in your warning?[/color][/size][/font]