DIY'ers: Areas, Goals, Concerns, and Progress

[color:#3333FF]Hi everyone!
I wanted to form a DIY’er discussion that lets us check in every once and a while and discuss all the things us DIY’ers encounter. Here:

  • We can talk about current areas we’re treating, strategies for progress, areas we’ve completed, and what’s up next.
  • We can talk about equipment: needles, tweezers, loupes, lighting.
  • We can talk about areas and the strategies to get to them, and clear them.
  • Or, can bring up pain management, power, zapping styles, or blend or Flash.

I know there are DIY’ers out there, and maybe this will get us all posting regularly, and helping out the newbies.

Take Care,
Mantaray[/color]

[color:#990000]Okay, and now for my check in:

I’m a guy, I’ve been doing it for what? Two years? Three years? Anyway, I’m on my abdomen right now. I really dreaded it when it was looming. I thought it would be very painful and slow. But actually, I’ve been pleasantly surprised.

It’s going great, way, way faster than I ever imagined. So far I’ve put in about three two-hour sessions, and maybe a smaller few sessions here and there (like 15 minutes) and it’s clearing good.

In that this is like a ‘return to electrolysis’ for me, I have to get my work endurance back up. After stopping and restarting, I found that, although the technique came back quickly, the endurance to treat for one, two, three hours had diminished. When I left off, I was doing up to five hour sessions no problem, with two or three ten meinute breaks, and had gone as long as eight hours, with/without auto-insert.

This time I’m doing it with no painkilling at all. And I have found that I get more done, and my pain tolerance is way better. Seems the bigger the deal pain is in your mind, the bigger the deal it will become. At least that’s what I have found.

What I have found is, on the upper abdomen, it’s too close for the focal distance of my loupes, so I remove my contacts and have found my insertions are better bare-eyed, than with shorter range reading glasses, or other loupes I have with that range. My depth, speed, and angles are really surprisingly good bare-eyed at about 6 to 10 inches, but is impossible outside that range. I just get so used to how my contacts muddle my close vision, that without them in, I see like a hawk at close range.

Anyway, that’s where I’m at now, abdomen. I am still cleaning up upper chest. That’s the area I am moving out of, and still hit upper inside of thigh once in awhile. That’s a trickier area.

Take Care
Mantaray[/color]

Nice to see a thread like this, it should probably be a sticky. I was actually thinking of making something similar to this. Unfortunately, it seems there’s either not a lot of DIY’ers or they’re simply not active. The extent of my posting on this board will probably be limited to my activity as i perform DIY on myself, after i’m finished i imagine ill move on, but who knows!

Anyway, a little background info. I’m a male (no, i’m not transitioning, thanks! =)), i’m in college for computer science, which is proving to be a tricky task juggling with trying to stay within what i expect to be an acceptable time frame in my hair removal, programming and practicing math.

DIY has been not only a hobby to me, but i find i save a lot of money and time with the added bonus of practicing in privacy. I’ve actually gauged how much electrolysis would have costed me given i would have seen a professional for all the work i wanted done, and it’s about 4000$ (so far). My initial investment of 150$ (110$ for epilator and about 40$ for foot pedals and new probe) has given me a huge ROI.

My target areas for DIY is my entire stomach up to my chest, thinning hair on my arms out, and either thinning out or removal of entire upper arm hair. unfortunately, there are areas i simply cannot target and won’t waste time on. Lots of respect for trying to perform on your chest, my neck simply won’t allow me to see. Back on track…I still attend regular electrolysis sessions with a professional for the areas i simply cannot target, these areas are back of the neck (giving me a hair line), cleaning up eyebrows, above the cheeks i have some dark hair, upper chest had more hair then i wanted, and my back had some patches of dark hair that i wanted gone.

I also wanted to say i have no education on electrolysis in general, the books i read completely bored me… it didn’t help i had a drink or two before. I chalk it up to a attention deficit. I’m completely self taught and i have a few scars to prove it. No shame in that.

I wonder what usually DIY do with needles? Every time using new disposable needle or soaking used needle in rubbing alcohol or something else for some time before using it next time?

I’ve found that i can re-use the disposable needles after hour long sessions. I usually use a needle until i clumsily bend it out of use, before re-use i rub the needle with a cotton ball and alcohol.

I dispose of the needle in a plastic medical waste container, still haven’t filled that thing up yet. All of my used double edge razor blades / electrolysis needles go in there.

iLikeDIY, you are very responsible using medical waste container for used double edge razor blades / electrolysis needles.

I always wondered whether it is the huge different between sterile electrolysis needle, which was using during several hours sessions (apparently, after some minutes it is not sterile anymore) and between rubbing the needle with a cotton ball between sessions as you do (of course, if needle is used for the same person)

[color:#006600]iLike DIY & ekade,

Hey!
You know, back when I started, I would go through about two needles in an hour. Then, it became one needle for the whole session no matter how long.

Now that I’ve restarted my work, I re-use one needle over and over. I’ve used my current needles (one on a short handle, and one on a long handle) for at least three or four sessions. I wipe them in alcohol before and after the session, same with my tweezers. The AC zapping in itself kills germs, but how much? I don’t know. True, I could be more careful and change out the needle with each session, but I’m pretty careful.

I’m probably going to start keeping a Ballet F3G on my long handle, and a Ballet F2 on my short handle. I have this notion F2’s can follow difficult bending follicles better, but I don’t know. I’m thinking a skinnier needle could also pierce the side of the follicle just as well, and has less of a killing spread.

I keep all my needles. I like thinking of all the treatments I gave myself. I figure if each needle was used at least one hour, then each needle represents $70 I saved by DIY’ing. :slight_smile:
The little container I keep them in would make a good photo. It’s kept in a drawer in my cart.

I use the Henry Schein steel lancets. Now those go in a regulation medical sharps disposal container. I like the steel ones because they stick to a magnetic strip I have on my lamp. That way they are in easy reach. If you guys don’t use those yet, I heavily recommend them. They’re like $3.00 for 200, supercheap.

What I did was order from TES more “handle/handpiece holders”, like the machines usually have on the sides, and put adhesive tape on them. I put them along the front of my cart.

I tried mounting a tweezer on the handpiece, so I could do the hit, then just flip it over to tweeze, but that hasn’t worked in that it puts excess wear (electrical shorts) on the handpiece wire due to all the twisting. It’s still useful though in some areas where you need two hands to work, then tweeze. What I want to do is make a ring that holds the teezers on my middle finger’s side. Something like that.

My main electrolysis day is Friday, but I need to work in a second day, it’ll be Thursday or Tuesday. I have to work with the shaving schedule. Once again I’m back to deciding 2 two-hour days or 1 four hour day? It’ll probably end up 2 four hour days. LOL.

Hey iLike DIY, yeah, I used to do the niparoo drinky drinky thing too. Vodka/ Bloody Mary’s. Could say a lot about that! not sure if I want to do it again, but yeah, it takes an edge off the time. I try to get someone on the phone wearing my earpiece. That helps.

Even after all this time. I’m fascinated by the way electrolysis clears out hair. A really good hit on a really large hair is still a wonder. It befuddles me why more people don’t DIY or go to pros. All those razors across America getting used every day.

Take Care
Mantaray[/color]

wow this thread is really inspiring me to learn the craft! Problem is there is no one here to learn from;( In my dreams I am Michael Bono’s student but alas that is just a dream. Any chance anybody out there wishes to teach a keen student ? I would also love to learn what machine to look out to buy.

@danika First off i’d like to say that DIY electrolysis is not just a hobby, it’s a change that needed to happen with me it wasn’t something i just came across… It takes a lot of time and discipline to be successful. That being said, the best teacher is always yourself, if you give me a couple of principles i can guarantee you i’ll find the rest out on my own. Before you decide that electrolysis is something you want to do, i would suggest a One Touch Electrolysis unit because its fairly representative of how a actual machine would utilize a galvanic current and it’s rather cheap ($20 at Sally Beauty last i checked). If you find its something that you can do (electrolysis isn’t for everyone) a professional machine will run you 100$-2000$ on ebay. I could go into a ‘schpeel’ of digital vs. analog units but that wouldn’t get us anywhere, you need to decide for yourself.

I’ve put a lot of time and effort into electrolysis, be prepared to be a shut-in for a while :). But i like to think the time i put in electrolysis is better than looking in the mirror and not being satisfied with who i am. It’s all made up in the future.

Mantaray, awesome post. Any chance you can PM me a link to those steel lancets?

* The clickable links in the text are pictures *

Anyway, Electrolysis 101 states that the probe should be held at 180° give or take a couple of degrees <= or >= for correct insertion into the follicle. Your wrist should be rotating to perform different angles of insertion while keeping the probe at about 180°. I’m sure it could be summed up mathematically a little better but i’m not going to go into that. The tweezers should be gripped at about (pi/4) on the unit circle, or about equal to a 45° degree angle and of course being perpendicular to the probe while insertion is being performed. Everything thus far is expressed in terms of a 2 dimensional geometric (or trigonometric) plane, but the real key here is your arm which is used to create a more 3-Dimensional plane while inserting. After the current (galvanic), heat (therm) or both (blend) is applied to the follicle i switch the tweezers to a position where i can grasp the hair to extract it from the follicle, believe it or not i’ve successfully mastered this technique with both hands!

this is going to be an on going post, i don’t feel like finishing it right now… And if this thread is monitored by professionals feel free to point out any errors in the post in a PM and i’ll update it.

Thanks so much for the response ilikeDIY. I suppose I need to search this forum so I dont ruin this thread with newbie questions! I just got excited by what i was reading here.
To be clear, it is NOT just this thread that is making me think about learning the craft. I also have NO one here, am totally frustrated by the lack of professionals in my area, and have been considering learning for a while.
I am a very focused,detailed, patient person, and have become gifted, (received international awards even !) at a few difficult technical crafts that i taught myself for the same reasons. Im just unsure of how to go about it so I appreciate your responses.

[color:#FF0000]Hey All :slight_smile:

Hey Danika, sounds like you’re kind of distant from resources. I saw a post of yours asking about DVD’s, VHS’s, and books. If you wanted to get started, here’s my concerns: what areas do you want to do? Because I think you mentioned face. That is an extremely tough area to DIY. There was a pro on here once that went on about about how difficult it was when she tried to DIY her own face. I would barely try that now with my years of experience. With DIY, “knowing” how to do electrolysis isn’t like a blanket term. I first learned on my front thighs, but at the time would never have been able to do bellybutton or upperchest, that comes in degrees. And I would say, the most advanced DIY is working with a mirror on your own face. That’s risky and difficult.

If you want to do things like legs or hands, then thats probably do-able for you. But you have to be really driven to succeed, because the learning curve doesn’t happen too quickly. Your brain has to rewire for the small, accurate movements, and it does eventually.

Personally, if I were you, I would do it. I would first buy one of Mike Bono’s books, and read the whole thing through. I read it cover to cover in the space of a week before I even turned on my machine. After you get the book down, then you can get a clearer picture of equipment you’ll need. This prevents buying things you soon replace, like I did incessantly. After reading the book, You can then go get some 3x reading glasses and buy a pack of cheap ballet ‘number 3’ needles from Texas Electrolysis Supply, or ask one of us to send you a few. Tape one to a small pencil or stick, and practice insertions under a bright lamp.

All this will cost you about $35 dollars and once you determine if you have capacity to do an insertion, you will know. That’s what I recommend: book, insertions, decide.

As for videos, I do have an old VHS video it’s called “Thermolysis: Presented by: Electrolysis Research Corp. lecturer James E. Schuster, M.D.” I watched it once, I kept falling asleep. He will never, ever, ever win an Academy Award. It was only so-so helpful. Could I have learned without it? Most definitely. If you can’t get a video, just pay an electrologist to workd on your forearm for the bare minimum time she will allow. Watch her closely. Once you see it done, you won’t forget, and it’s the same as the video. I should put up a video on YouTube. I just thought of that now, and I could probably do it well. But the magnification for the camera would be an issue.

Anyway, about getting started in DIY. The one big expenditure is with Loupes. You need good vision, and they may not be so re-sellable. Now the machine you buy, considering it is working and a desired model, can always be resold for what you bought it for if it doesn’t work out. So don’t think of it as a such a lost investment.

I can’t answer all of your questions with just one post, but can address them when able. Let me know.

iLike DIY:
http://www.texaselectrolysissupply.com/
But you have to ask on the phone, last I recall, the Henry Schein’s aren’t listed on the site. They have some new brand, that’s probably just as good. I just don’t like the plastic handle ones, I have some and only used one. I keep them around for who knows what.

…Okay, now for fun stuff :grin:
Last night for two hours, I:

  1. cleaned up upper chest. I’m thankful the nipple areas are clearing. Those can be difficult hairs as they can sweep to the side after going below the surface. I kind of tug on them gently to see which way the skin moves to get an idea. Then I do really slow, careful insertions. With nipple hairs, hairs around the bellybutton, or hairs on the tops of the toes, I have found slow, very careful insertions pay for themselves over time. If missed, it’ll just keep coming back until one gets it right. Uhh… kind of like reincarnation I guess.

  2. Cleared abdomen on the left side. My main concern there is treatment density so I’ll pass up hairs to spread out the work. It’s going absolutely great, but I’m finding four days growth is too long. Those hairs being constantly graded by wearing a shirt, tend to distort their angles pretty early after clearing the surface of the skin. My most common tendency to avoid is coming in too steep.

Actually, I should mention, the abdomen is no ordinary area of treatment for me. This area has been through waxing, plucking, rotary epilation, and five laser/microwave treatments. So, these follicles are among the most distorted and messed up anyone will ever see. Thank goodness I have naturally straight hair, or it would be worse. This area, I would imagine is usually pretty uniform on most straight haired people. Not on me. There’s lots of depth changes and angle changes (off the surface, not grain), and Lots of these two-hairs growing simultaneously out of one follicle-type situations. Also, lots of follicles that have sharp-angled bends in them that are tough to find the true bottom.

  1. And lastly, lower abdomen/ upper pelvis. This is a fun area, and I’m saving it for last of the abdomen/chest work. It’s just so easy, all these big, dark hairs at uniform angles and depths, and at a perfect focal working distance just by looking downwards. I wish all areas were this easy. They come out like tree trunks. I’m hitting each a minimum of three times. I only worry about incomplete death here, because this area could yield some ingrowns because of the natural shallow angles.

That’s it for today’s post. Hope you’re all staying on it, getting better with each session. Try watching “Dawn of the Dead” while you’re working. There’s screaming every 2 minutes in that movie and it just goes along with the zaps so comically ! LOL. Just something I noticed the other day.

Take Care
Mantaray

[/color]

HEY MANTARAY!!! THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH FOR SUCH AN INFORMATIVE POST!
Yes it is my face that really needs the work , and there is noone where I live but I would not study electrlys. to do my face for the reasons you mentioned! But as soon as I am able I will take up all of your wise advice and I really appreciate the road map. I WOULD LOVE IF you posted a youtube video!! Please let us know if you do! That would be so helpful and likely more worth of an academy award than the super boring one you slept through!

Laser was a total failure?

[color:#FF6600][b]Hey ekade,

Yeah, when all that hype was going on a few years back I guess I drank the Kool Aid too.

It was a state of the art laser, on the highest settings bearable, and it didn’t do squat. And I have lighter skin and jet-black hair. I remember the operator saying, ‘You have the highest pain tolerance I’ve seen. If there’s hair there, it’ll be gone.’ …yeah, right.

My posts in the archives follow it. The whole arc, from blind optimism to disillusionment. What a waste of money, hindsights 20/20. You know what kind of electrolysis machine I could’ve bought with the $2,500 - $3,000 I threw away?

Well, I did get something for my money, induced hair thickness on the side-abdomen area, distorted follicles, a few arc-burn scars on the insteps of my feet, and the worse, a weird skin condition about five inches to the left of my bellybutton that took years to go away (?)(destroyed capillary beds). Like a bruise. I mention it back in the archives somewhere.

But honestly, mix in the rotary epilator use, aggressive plucking, and waxing, and who can say what? Its just an area where the follicles need to be put out of their misery. Its such a relief to finally clear the area quickly. I think I had a mental block with this area for the longest time, dreading the work due to all my past experiences. Doing it, its not so bad and clearing quick.

Mantaray[/b][/color]

[color:#FF6600]The orange choice on the color selection isn’t orange enough. I’m an orange freak, I know my orange.[/color]

Direct quote from a laser ad:

“[Purchase a 6-month package and] … after the sixth treatment is completed, if you are not fully satisfied with your results, you are guaranteed to receive up to 4 additional Laser Hair Removal treatments in the same body area as the original purchase over the next 12 months.”

So, what happens after the last treatment, if the thing didn’t work at all? What happens if you get MORE hair growth caused by the laser? Frankly, we need to have a sharp attorney write up a “Patient’s Agreement” that can be handed to the laser tech and signed by them. Right now, the game is stacked against the patient.

[color:#FF6600][b]Hey Mike!

Yeah, I remember signing all these forms before the five treatments that, just the opposite, took all my rights away.

I had really, really mulled a lawsuit against him for the scar on my instep (rt. foot) and the capillary bed/bruise-thing. It was shaped like a peanut. It stayed for at least three years, and is still discolored. I even went as far as doing a background check on him. It turned up some pretty amazing things resulted in him getting his MD suspended. He was formerly an OB/GYN, and went into aesthetic medicine after a big lawsuit kind of chased him out of that.

This is his site:
http://www.sdbodyimaging.com/

This is something about him:
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/weekly/aa061101d.htm
…yeah, lucky me. Look who I got as my laser operator.

I can’t believe he’s still using the Elos light/RF laser.
That thing kicks out RF/microwaves to heat your skin with radiation, apparently to assist in the effectiveness of the laser. What it does is boil the blood, and explode the capillary beds, causing the deep bruising/death of the skin if it gets too hot. Which it did on me.

As for the foot burns, that was caused by the two electrodes that emit the RF coming in focused (not spread out, flush) contact with the surface being treated. He should have known that it would occur on the variable surface of the foot’s instep. It would be difficult to keep it flush there. I remember the sound, burn smell, and pain of the RF arc. It hurt!

I passed on any lawsuit. Anybody who’s been in a lengthy lawsuit knows the toll they take on you. Not worth it. But I had at one time all the photos and third party MD opinions ready.

Anyway, live and learn. Would they acknowledge a contract being presented to them to sign? Probably not. The AMA, or whover regulates them would have to institute it. Their lobby would fight it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey Mike I got to get to your website to get your two-hand literature you mentioned. Hope you guys are good up there in Northern Cal. My most excellent electrolysis pros Wendy Golden and Rochelle Kimberling down here in San Diego really praised you.

Mantaray

btw: If I got 12 more months of the Elos laser because of dissatisfaction, I might not’ve been alive to post this! :)[/b][/color]

If your case is still withing “statues of limitations” I do have a lawyer that will take your case and take an appropriate percentage. If you were injured you should seek “damages.”

So far this guy has gotten money back for many “cosmetic procedures” that didn’t work, or worse injured the patient. Let me know if you wish to do this. Yes, cases like this can take years to resolve, but if you aren’t paying the lawyer does all the work.

Very nice offer Michael! And Mantaray, maybe with justice on your side you can get your money back and buy that electrolysis machine you really wanted!

((PS. ON A SIDE TOPIC what would be the chance that a small group of keen, kind and grateful DIYers could hire you Michael to host a small course for us? As in a few days of private instruction, advice ? That would be my greatest wish ! ))

Ok back to the real world of lawyers and nasty lying doctors ;)0)

Thank you for sharing your laser experience, Mantaray. It seems that you had all side-effects of laser! Really sorry about it.