Brazilian/Hollywood possible?

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#41

Understated variables? What’s that all about Bono?

Neither Dee, I, Dave, or Harvey have championed “no clue at all, and therefore NO estimate at all” (Dave somehow got relegated to the space of a third party candidate not given billing or space on the debate stage) We are saying that while any practitioner can give general estimates of what that practitioner can be expected to deliver, given enough solid information, no ivory tower pronouncement can be made on what one can expect from all practitioners in all cases, and furthermore Electrolysis Practitioner A can not safely say what Electrolysis Practitioner X will be able to deliver for Customer Q on Body Part G, precisely because Practitioner A can’t possibly know what choices Practitioner X will make in approaching that treatment challenge, nor what Customer Q’s situation is, without having treated customer Q. Even then, you still don’t know how Practitioner X will proceed. It is furthermore irresponsible to give customers false information that leads to the idea that anyone who fails to meet the ivory tower pronouncement is somehow not up to snuff, or worse yet, cheating you on purpose.
It is strange how people say something, and you make rebuttals as if something else had been said. Maybe that is just a debate tactic being employed for sport. Problem is, this is not a team event, to be scored and forgotten. Some people’s life decisions and livelihoods depend on a proper understanding of these concepts being more generally understood.

to borrow a quote “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
What is your pronouncement on clearing a man’s beard?

#42

Okay … yes, you are correct. I will try harder next time.

#43

Further … (after my coffee) … I’m sorry I got you all steamed up; not my intention. I did talk about “no clue at all” but absolutely did not mean you or anyone else. However, many electrologists will not even attempt an estimate …. ever! Clients WANT this!

Oh, I also see I made a typo … I wanted to say that I “UNDERSTAND variables.” (“Understated variables” doesn’t make any sense.)

Still, what I have wanted for DECADES is for ALL of us to pool our data. When enough data is collected I believe Universal Standards could be created. These would not be “standards” that would make someone better than another, but a guide for clients and operators as well. Pertinent variables would be detailed and added in to the “median and average estimate” and would be available to beginning electrologists. (Those just starting in out business need LOTS of help.) How would this work?

Suppose you have a young client with back hair. Our AEA data could show, say, 1,500 cases and document how the treatment progressed. One variable would be, for example, the age of the client with the normal expectation that the client would be growing new hair until, say, age 35 and include an explanation of why this is. Again this could all be shown by actual treatment data.

What about a young woman with burgeoning facial hair? Wouldn’t it be great if we had data on thousands of such cases that could guide us to giving the client a better outlook on treatment and expectations? Possibly document medical intervention that helped or didn’t help?

All these data are already there … we just don’t have it organized. All my posts (and earlier ones) were to this end only. With all other medical treatments and medications data are collected and “outcomes” are disseminated to those involved. Electrologists have to rely on “no data” at all; except their own. I think this is wrong!

Of course, my estimates are based only on my personal years in practice. And, if I want to guarantee my results that MY business! I do in many cases. Sometimes I’m WAY off … but not usually.

You need to “chill out” at the moment. I suppose my posts were not well written and I apologize to anyone I unintentionally offended, but these were not personal attacks, as you seem to think. I’m not responding to what I see as hostility and challenges on a personal level: I’ve made a promise. Take a deep breath and get over it! And, I don’t live in any kind of “ivory” tower … I live in a tiny STUCCO house that’s in need of lots of fixing! James, you are so far above this behavior. Come on now! You’re scaring me!

#44

You know who you are and you know what you did.
I only respond to your “pot stirring” on here because things you say do get misconstrued by some to be a pronouncement that comes off to some like the known authority saying that anyone who is NOT giving what you say is “standard” might be either not good enough, or cheating people. I made that clear, and once again, you deflect it to seem like I said something else.

I am actually defending those who are too shy to face you and call you on this BS. If you find that to be a personal attack, then, that is your interpretation. I am looking at the facts.

You wanna do research and make that research public, go on and do it.

But while you are at it, drink some more coffee and answer the question, how long to do a male beard?

#45

You can check my website if you wish. I’m done with the silly contest. (I also got a few defending emails … but who’s counting.)

#46

What silly contest?
You come here playing your stupid debate games, and take the ball and go home any time the ball hits the chalk.

The worst part of it is, if anyone is really paying attention, they see you contradicting yourself all over this web site. Why you do that? While I know you just think it is fun, there are people who come here for honest information, and they deserve better.

Strange that you are ducking the beard question. Even your half answer referring to your web site… nice design, where did you get that from?.. Oh, yeah, forget it…
The only reference I see is http://www.bonoelectrolysis.com/treatment.htm which doesn’t answer the question what is your pronouncement for your standard for a male beard? This link says 9 hours for you to do a neck, what is the answer to the question “how much to do a beard - face AND neck” because that’s the question a client would want answered.

Are you afraid to give an honest answer to this question? If so, why?

#47

Children, children , children. If you can’t say something nice don’t say anything at all!

This is rather entertaining I think. And to think it started with someone wanting to get rid of a few pubes!

I wish the mature section would get this kind of att.

#48

Veryhairyguy,

I deleted your post and you are being warned about attacking others here. Andrea has been notified as well.

Edit: veryhairyguy was permanently banned 11/1/12

#49

I don’t know anything about white towers, except that there is a nice Tower in London where the Crown jewels are kept. However, I would like to talk about waving WHITE flags. And give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.

It is rare to not find any thread in which Michael has participated which does not contain any valuable information. Information that has helped clients from anywhere in the world to find a good professional, and also to be able to identify when things are not going well. James, is not this the reason why Hairtell was created? and isn’t this what all we are doing here including you? each of us has put his two cents, some take more time than others, but each and every one are IRREPLACEABLE. The reader who takes this seriously doesn´t understand that this is a simple discussion between two good friends that basically they appreciate each other. And while some shots are heard, they are only RUBBER bullets.

How many times we’ve read Michael saying that he makes mistakes? What separates him from the rest of us is he admits this without reservations, while others will not tolerate or accept that they exist and someone so tell us. Here is where his greatness lies. Only by accepting that you’ve made a mistake, you can correct them, and continue growing.

James, Michael. Michael, James. I don’t want to do without any one of you, the Electrolysis can not afford it, or the thousands of customers, or the thousands of students, or the millions of friends who need you both.

#50

How did the United Nations miss out on a gem like you Jossie? Every warring nation would be at peace after 5 min with you at the mediation table.

#51

There is a famous picture of Nikita Khrushchev at the United Nations, banging his shoe on the desk, shouting “I will bury you!”. Everyone had been shocked and amazed at his passionate display until this picture made the rounds…

The picture shows clearly, that while Khrushchev is banging away on the desk with the heel of the shoe, he is shown to be wearing shoes on both his feet. What looked like a spontaneous display of passion was uncovered to be a preplanned manipulation of the media.

Of course, this did not stop him from doing it again… and again… and again.

#52

Just curious Dee, what would be your estimated Total Treatment Time and estimated total cost for your client here? that is if you have one. I understand and respect that many variables can skew such guessing.

P.S.,

As a hopeful consumer, and sponge for knowledge, I hate to see this thread turn so heated and conflicted. Text can become so easily misconstrued an taken out of context. but for what its worth, I rely on each of you folks here at hairtell, equally, for incite and wisdom. and for the most part, Hope.

#53

I am getting a real giggle from your typo.
You typed “incite” in place of “insight”.
For me, that’s just too funny :smiley:
You know, considering we just had a case of someone looking to incite, instead of providing insight.

#54

Nobody really thought I wouldn’t eventually respond, right? Still, it has taken me a few days to digest all this. I know none of you know this, but my beloved Jossie and I have exchanged many emails on this subject and we decided that both of us would walk away from Hairtell … never to return! I don’t think that’s happening.

James and Michael:
For the last year or so, I have avoided any direct contact with James because we do, indeed, have personal conflict going on. I even refused to work on a client in order to avoid any direct contact with James. Still, like all wars, when they are finally over nobody remembers why they started; we only have the dead bodies and destruction to work through. Can anyone remember the reasons for World War I? Can any American conceive of a war against England, Germany or Japan? It’s unthinkable today.

Peace and Love:
My answer to this is that I REFUSE to fight the war. Was I involving myself in this “thing?” Yes, I was. I placed tiny “bombs” here and there that only James would see. And, James did it too (I’ll be specific a bit later).

But I lived though the Vietnam era and never understood why the United States didn’t just stop this insane war. Why didn’t we walk away when everyone in the world knew it was wrong? Instead, I lost three of my best friends (just kids), and more than two million Vietnamese were killed. I voted for Obama because I believed he would get us out of war in six months.

To end a war is to not fight it:
So, to whatever James is accusing me of doing, or having done … I simply say that YES I am totally guilty of all of it. Guilty guilty guilty! And, I’m not doing it any more. James can continue his “fight” against me if he wishes, but I will only agree with him and I will refuse to involve myself any more. I’m not going “tit for tat” on each tiny issue. War over! (One posted simply called us both JERKS … and, he was right!)

How to “push a button”:
A few days ago, a good friend was visiting and said something “off the cuff.” He didn’t realize that he had “pushed one of my buttons.” I got mad and he was surprised. We talked it out. See, all of us have these special “issues” that are often deeply imbedded.

For example (sorry here James). Rumors continue to assault me that James has says that I’m “obsolete and don’t know what I’m doing any more.” Of course this is THE “button” for me, because at this stage of my career I DO feel obsolete! I feel technology as moved beyond me and I’m an old worn-out dinosaur. So, any “hint” of this obsolescence sets off my defense mechanisms. (Dinosaurs die hard.)

Additionally, my books are another “back-handed” compliment, or button. James does praise my book … but only the one that is “out of print.” He doesn’t mention that the original 368-page book was separated into two volumes that were (and are) continually being updated. My original book is still “alive and well,” but it’s in two better-focused texts. This is a “gotcha bomb” that nobody else would see, except me. It seems like a compliment, but it’s another way to say that I have become obsolete and out-of-date. And, this “bomb” is deliberate.

In this latest “bout” with James, I obviously pushed one of his buttons … but, like my friend, I’m not seeing this button. I mean, I don’t know what I did to set this off? Maybe James is unaware of my “issues” too … it’s completely possible.

Unexpected Consequences:
Stunningly, the outcome of this affair has given me a new unexpected gift … it’s DEE! She has been so kind and loving to me in this matter. I had no idea of how truly splendid this woman is. She has a deep, profound and spiritual side that I never expected. Her kind words (and Jossie’s too, of course) have healed this wound. Dee is a miracle and the best of the best. I had no idea.

Baking Pies:
When I was a little boy, I would often come home from school and see my mother baking pies; I mean LOTS of pies. Pies all over the house … usually apple and lemon. (Her lemon pie was legendary.) I asked her why?

She said that she was feeling bad and depressed (my dad was a very difficult guy). Her answer to her depression was to bake tons of pies and give them away to the neighbors. She said that after GIVING to others, all your depression goes away. How can you feel sorry for yourself when people smile, are happy and enjoying your pies?

So, my only answer to this recent event is for me to “bake some pies.” I’m not going to dwell on this battle, continue this fight and even discuss the matter. Instead, I’m going through my files and will be putting tons of FREE stuff on my website. These will be things that you all can use in your practice and will be helpful to you: forms, hand-outs and advertising. I’ll let you know when it’s all ready. I’m baking pies this week!

To James: I apologize for everything … for my intended “bombs” and the bombs that went off without my knowing. I’m not doing this any more. I will avoid hurting you at all costs! You can continue, if you wish, but remember: there is nothing to win. In war there are no winners, only losers.

The reality is that I like James. I admire him. The few times I’ve been around him it was TOTAL fun and utter joy! I actually miss James!

Furthermore, James has taught me more about the business of this profession than ANY other person. James understands, and has unknowingly shown me, how our profession has entered a completely NEW PHASE. Yes, I’m working on a “new chapter” about this landmark change for the better.

A few months ago the AEA asked me to recommend a speaker. I recommended James. I told them to give him full reign of the subject of “the future of electrolysis” because this guy, above all others, understands this and is making it all work for him. I honor this. And, I am NOT kissing up here.

All these statements are from my heart and I have not planted any “bombs.” If I have unknowingly planted bombs, I again apologize with all my being.

#55

Since I don’t have the time to give this the attention it deserves. I will simply note that I will reply sometime soon.

In the mean time, I have a little something for you.

Here is our long distance dedication, The Fray - How To Save A Live

And the follow up, P!nk - Blow Me (One Last Kiss)

#56

You’re not the only one that has shed some tears because of Michael, James. But perhaps that has helped us to grow and become stronger. At times he seems insensitive, but you know? he will be the first to jump if someone is hurting you, even if this hurts his own interests. I know you do the same for him. This is the concept that I have of a TRUE friend.

If I have learned anything in all this time is that he fights harder with those for who he feels more affection.

Believe me, James, re-do “the way” always worth it. And after all, you’re the Walker who open “WAY”.

#57

The reason I don’t have time to give the proper reply to this now is that other than a really busy weekend, this is not my first time around on this roller coaster. I never liked coasters, and I have learned the definition of insanity is doing the same things, while expecting different results.

So, please enjoy the nice music.

Abba - Knowing Me, Knowing You.

Of course, there is always hope… it only took 28 years to get the gang from ABBA to talk to each other again.

#58

28 years? it took me 48 hours to forget everything. Of course, I’ve always been a hopeless romantic. So I love happy endings.

The end of Mamma Mia is the kind of movie that ends well, right?

#59

Hmmm, the end of Mamma Mia… Well, there is the story part where they all live happily ever after, and then there is the 25 minute feel good “reunion” concert they tack on to the show to make you forget how flimsy the story actually is. :wink:

#60

You should not expect much of a musical… except that the music is good.

Thank you for the music James!