Vector Needleholder Availability

Hair Removal Methods Do-It-Yourself Electrolysis
#1

Does anyone know where I can find a needleholder that is compatible with a Vector unit? I met someone recently who bought a $200 Vector and wants to try using real needles. I haven’t been able to find one that works with the Vector’s banana jack that is available in the USA (I could only find a Sterex needleholder available overseas that would work.) Anyone know of a US distributorship that offers them?

I only wish I found this person earlier and I would have convinced her to buy a used pro blend machine for the same price.

#2

Vickie,

Bear in mind I am only talking theory here, as I personally have yet to see a needle holder for ANY system in person. But if my theory holds correctly, the needle holder is a single-wire apparatus, correct? Sure, it has a BNC connector for safety, but basically all it needs is one wire to provide continuity for the circuit, correct? (Pros jump in here if I am missing, if the needle holder is multi-wire for some reason).

So basically, your friend could buy any needle holder, cut the BNC connector off, and replace it with banana. Or better yet, to keep the needle holder as it comes, buy a BNC receptacle just like the one on the (insert brand of machine you buy it for), a short piece of wire, and a banana probe, and you now have an adapter that will allow it to work.

And if you want to get REALLY clever, just get that BNC connector and replace the banana jack on the Vector machine with a BNC jack. All very simple to do, if one has a small amount of electrical skill.

I’d be happy to help you if need be, but my time between now & Jan will be full of moving about, so I may not get it done before 2 Jan, if that’s an issue. But I am going to Dectro tomorrow (Friday), and I will have a better idea of whether what I am saying will work or not.

The one thing we would need to be concerned about is your friend plugging the cables in backwards, as you told me about earlier. Obviously, putting an Apilus BNC jack on the Vectro with an Apilus needle cord would solve both issues.

Let me know if you need some help with this.

Dave

#3

Dave, you have it right.

The probe system is a single wire affair. Since the calculations of the machine are based on the wires being a certain length, the calibration of the machine would be off if the wire were shortened or elongated by much. (Oh, yeah, we are talking about a Vector… NEVERMIND)

Everything Dave said is applicable.

Say hello to Mrs. Fortier and her daughter Ms. Fortier if you get the chance. I hear Mrs. Oliman may be there by the time you get there as well.

Your time spent with the people there will be nice.
See, everyone in this picture seems to be pretty happy.

Picture028.jpg800×598

#4

Nice pic, but who is that debonair-looking dude on the left?

Any chance you know the wire gauge & length of your cables? If I have that, I can make one exact. Though I doubt it would matter much, since all apilus cords are the same. Being an inch or two off shouldn’t matter much, even with the pro machines. And as you said, not at ALL with the Vectro.

I think the conductivity of an individual’s skin would have more to do with the issue than wire length/gauge. Typically, wire dimensions come into play when we are talking MAX current/flow rates.

#5

James, I’m really laughing here :grin: You certainly fit the title of being from Buffalo and Traveling the US… Good picture of you, buddy. Spontaneous group pictures are the best!

#6

The industry standard for electrolysis cords is 6 feet long.

The cords are pretty standard as well. I don’t know off hand what that is, but I bet you can figure it out.

This cord says on the side:
Manhattan/CDT M4214 RG 174/U (funny symbol) AMW Style 1354 E90619-V

#7

That’s strange, not at all what I was expecting. That cable is a coax style cable, not just straight wire. Kind of like the cable going to your TV, only smaller. And hopefully more flexible!

Sample here… http://www.manhattanwire.com/page.cfm?page=31#

Hmmmm…

#8

Truth be told, I feel odd about trying to get her a $20-40 needleholder for a machine that isn’t worth half that. She insisted she wanted to try and use her Vector, and she is a kind person so I reluctantly agreed to get her a needleholder.

I was also the one who had the unfortunate task of explaining to this person, who on a fixed income saved for months to buy what she believed was a real electrolysis machine equivalent to what the pros use, that the machine she bought was a piece of junk. Ok, I was more sensitive than that, but I felt bad for her. I am keeping an eye on eBay and see if I can land her a machine for $50-100; working, complete 70s-early 80s era Instantrons and Hinkels seem to go for about that on eBay.

James, I just love that expression on your face in the photo :slight_smile: You always make me laugh. Was that the Dectro office in CA?

#9

Well, I understand wanting to help someone not get taken… but if you want me to get a cord and mod it for you, now would be the time to say so, since I will be there in a few hours. I could buy her a cord, mod it at home, and mail it to you soon. Just let me know.

#10

The cord I gave you info on is a Dectro cord. Some older machines did use wrapped wire, like in an electrical plug.

Some of us think the Dectro cords are cable style so that you don’t have any built in redundancy for wire breakage :wink:

Of course, one doesn’t want any arcing in one’s wire while doing this work.

That picture is actually the Dectro Office in Quebec City. I don’t have a picture of the new Santa Anna Office. They have moved since the last time I was in “The Golden State”. However, some of the people you will meet there are actually in this picture.

#11

As for the people, I will know in about an hour, as I depart to see them in minutes.

As for the cord, how flexible is it? I’m really amazed that they would use coax for this application, as it is typically fairly stiff. I’d think you would want very flexible wire. Oh well, I’ll know when I get to Aesthetic Systems (new name for Santa Ana office) and buy my own.

I’ll give a warm hello to the from you James!

P.S. Was that you on the far left in the picture?

#12

The cord is very flexible.
The well dressed man in black is Mr. Claremount Beuamount, CEO of Dectro International. I am one of the weeds amoung the roses pictured.

#13

James, I don’t know quite how to tell you this, but, ummm… you’re BLACK in that picture! I hope this does not shock you, but I felt you needed to know.

Alas, neither the Fortier ladies nor Ms. Oliman was there, but Mrs. Fortier’s husband, Jean-Louis Gonella was, and he was so very nice and helpful. After Dee’s comment of them not selling to a non-pro, I was a tad apprehensive, but needlessly so. I explained myself to him, and he showed me loupes, equipment, and even gave me advice on needles & techniques (thought he is not certified, his wife, as you probably know, has been doing it for 30 years). A top-notch operation, plus he has this adorable Canadian accent! Good thing my wife was not there, she has this thing for accents…

Another bit of good news for me, and possibly for others in SoCal… Dectro aka Aesthetic Systems, is opening an electro school in January. And while I cannot take the resident, hands-on part while I am in Korea, I can do the online theory part now, and stop by when I leave Korea for that part with Mrs. Fortier. Wow. I will be looking into this opportunity shortly, I can’t believe I went from researching a few errant hairs (quite by accident, in fact; I came across HairTell while searching for something else) to actually considering a new career field. Amazing.

Another thing that is amazing is how NONE of you pros told me those needles are TINY!!! I can hardly see that darn thing, let alone get it into a tight hole beside a hair!! I think an orange will become my best friend soon.

Oh, and Dee, Jean-Louis said to tell you hi. He spoke VERY highly of you, and we were in agreement on your well-spoken & intelligent conversations. Kudos from Dectro to you!

Well, I am off to check out the website for the school. Wish me luck!

#14

I had the priviledge of meeting his wife, Johanne, when she was here in Ohio for a continuing ed program. She’s a lovely lady and was very helpful giving me advice on the Apilus Platinum. I hope I can meet Jean-Louis someday as well. I’m so impressed with their products.

Those probes are very small. They need to match the diameter of the hair. Do you see why one needs responsible magnification to do the job correctly? Sliding a probe into a hair follicle is not easy if you can’t see. If you don’t have steady hand to boot, then just forget it!

I actually meant, if I wasn’t clear about this, that I didn’t think epilator manufacturer’s were allowed to sell their epilators to you if you were not trained to do electrolysis. I didn’t realize that you already had an Apilus Senior II at the time. Must have missed one of your posts. So, are you saying they would have sold you an epilator if you had wanted to purchase one? Maybe I have wrong information on this one?

Good luck with all this, Hawk.

Dee

#15

Dee,

I did not ask if they would sell me one, as I already had one. But I can tell you that if it is not legal here in CA to do so, I am sure Jean-Louis would not have done so. One thing that amazed me is that he knew which machine I had purchased! He was aware of the Senior II’s on Ebay, and immediately knew which one it was when I started talking about it. This guy definitely knows the market!

And yes, you were clear about what you meant (about selling epilators), but I was still nervous that they wouldn’t want to deal with an un-licensed individual even for accessories. But I think that when it comes to non-machine stuff, a profit is a profit, a sale is a sale.

After talking to him, I would love to see his wife in action. Or any of you pros, for that matter. He said his wife can clear up to 1,000 hairs an hour. That’s 16 hairs a minute! One hair in less than 4 seconds! Wow. While I expect practice does cause one to get faster, with the time it took me to locate a hair, lay the needle up against it (no insertion, relax), and take a breath, I’d say I can average oh, about 1 hairs per minute…

#16

That is how I first got the feel for doing an insertion, I practiced a few hours on an orange, inserting the needle into the pores of the orange. Did the folks at Dectro recommend this to you as well?

#17

Darn it Vickie, I wanted folks to think that I was smart enough to think of that on my own! :whistle:

Yes, Jean-Louis told me of the technique to learn. Though to be quite honest, I don’t see how I will know I am staying in the “pore” or puncturing the skin, as the orange can’t yell at me. Unless it is simply the difference between an effortless insertion and one with friction. If I had a loupe right now, I’d go get me an orange see.

#18

I always practiced on a ripe banana. There were lots of little dots to glide a probe into and it had the curve appeal just like an orange.

1,000 insertions an hour is very good, but it all depends on the area that one is working on. That would be hard to achieve on the neck of an obese client, but not on a man’s back that is flat and allows the electrologist to be ergonomically perfect or even forearms and legs. I did a two hour appointmet this afternoon on a ladies beard, neck sides and chin and averaged 725 insertions an hour and that was with lifting out some ingrowns as well, which always takes time. She shaved less than 24 hours ago, so some hairs were a wee bit short, but a burst of energy will lift the hair enough to grasp as long as the tweezers are top-notch. Another good reason to purchase quality magnification if any of you become full-time professional electrologists.

#19

Wow. So much to learn. Nearing the end of a very successful career, I have stepped into a realm about which I know nothing, and I feel like such a kid.

Is galvanic really a better means (i.e. permanent) of hair removal? Does blend enjoy the same lack of regrowth rate?

And with the advent of digital machines such as the Senior II, is there a good reason to learn with galvanic first, before moving on to blend?

#20

Galvanic is highly effective, but very slow. Blend is highly effective, but slower than the forms of thermolysis that release energy in less than one second. Thermolysis, microflash (1/1000 of a second) and picoflash (1/10,000) are highly effective when performed with expert insertions, properly chosen probes and special techniques. The advantage of the faster modalities is that one gets the hair off fast and keeps it off until all the obnoxious hair follicles are eliminated permanently over the months of hair growth cycles to come. Once an area is cleared, then we have the upper hand because at that point, we know that any hair that pops to the surface is going to be NEW GROWTH. That’s what we look for - GROWING HAIRS because we cannot “kill” shedding hair that is not attached to the tissue that nourishes it. Bottom line is to GET CLEARED FAST and STAY ON A SCHEDULE to keep cleared until there is nothing else left to treat. You aren’t at that level yet, Hawk, but I’m sure you are a quick learner.

Galvanic is good to start with as a neophyte. Insertions can be a little off. Same for blend, but with thermolysis you need accurate insertions. Practice leads to skill. So, I would disable the thermolysis part of you Senior and start with low, slow galvanic. Regrowth rates are relative to skill. I have done all three modalities, and I always finish faster with microflash and picoflash, but the best part is, the client is so happy and full of hope when they are cleared quickly and they are able to stay cleared after each visit. This all takes about a year to complete, but visual results are almost immediate.