have you ever tried it? if so, what were your results? oh, and PLEASE tell me if its a scan because i read and read about this hair removal, and it says it has good results and all. thankyou <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
They are cheaply made, overpriced electrical boxes, that when used as the manufacturer suggests, do nothing.
Do a search on this site for Vector, and/or Global
They don’t honor their guarantees either.
I have posted quite a bit about the vector - but forget the tweezers however you can modify it to take the pro banana fit sterex switchable handset
i have tested this item and used it its fine but its the price it is its not pro but its certainly top league compared to a one touch thats for sure
ps i run an apilus sm-500 but i just had to see if the vector was crap or not - its not crap but its not a pro level machine either - it does have a foot pedal and it is mains powered thats not bad - just dont waste your time with the tweezers
click this link for the full story <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
this is a hairtell webapge
and here are a few of my own images to show you what i mean about the handset - i recommend a sterex and then just fit regular ballet needles or similar a number 3 is good <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but its up to you if you have it switched or not an unswitched one will have to used with the optional vector foot pedal but if you can save 30 bucks on that you could buy a switched handset - this basically means the handset has a switch on it then you slide in the needle until needle stops at the bottom of the follicle and then press the switch on the handset for the time it takes to loosen the hair to slide out easily always start on the lowest settings until you feel comfortable and then build up until you are getting a good level of removals - this is just a technique so practice on your legs or somewhere <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
if you do not have some sort of switch you see you will never comfortable be able to slide the needle down the follicle
hope this helps - and as for the tweezers well a good pair of tweezers is always handy eh <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> even if they dont work with the vector
things to remember
you can either use a switched handset OR a foot pedal not both at the same time as the handset wont work and you will think the machine is broken unplug the foot pedal if you plan on buying a switched handset
vector on off switches on the back - the rocker switch needs a FIRM CLICK to switch it on - this would probably wear in if you just press it gently it may not work so press until you hear the ‘CLICK’
always ensure you are making a circuit back to the machine with the ground lead if the sticky pads wear out use a sponge soaked in salt water and attach your crocodile clip to that or use some of the conductive gel that comes with the item between the patch lead and your skin - but wait until they are no longer sticky <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />- you can buy more of these adhesive patches in anycase from heart monitor shops or shop around by looking about the net.
always start off slowly and gently and work your way up
it takes a long time to do self electrolysis - if you get stressed by the amount to do do little and often and stop and have another go next week - and always use the needle handset i suggested as the tweezers are useless and will archive nothing
best wishes and have fun epilating
I did exactly what sparx told me to do. Bought a vector all the other stuff needed for the job and it works!
Its a relief to hear that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> as everyboody has it in for me with this model for some reason LOL
and at least you know i am honest a bit of a bodger but you know if it works (with a needle handset set up) then whats the problem
and to think you will never have to buy a battery again or wet your fingers with salty water (see one touch) - and you can choose disposible professional needles and have a footpedal - what more do people want for the price
still when you get used to it keep it as a back up and invest in APILUS get one that can do Flash thermolysis hi speed - as thats a great machine - but the Vector is a great little machine to cut your teeth on.
and you even have a nice pair of tweezers thrown in - as long as you dont try using them for electrolysis that is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> they must be worth £20 easily
I paid £15 for one pair of my little tweezermans and they are tiny and no better engineerd
one thing though i have to say that you can buy better used machines on ebay of course but they are ‘used’ and for most they are far too complicated and daunting for the newbies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
On behalf of HairTell, let me say that we don’t “have it in for you” over this, it is more accurate to say that we “have it in for this company”. They overpromise and under deliver. Just see their track record for honoring their stated 100% satisfaction guaranteed money back returns policy.
It would be one thing if one were purchasing a used Vector for $20 off Ebay and doing the modifications and using it. To spend what Vector charges for these units, and to then need to invest in modifications… well, one is better off buying a used pro unit and having something that works out of the box and is sturdy.
Furthermore, when one decides it is just to difficult and one really is better off going to a pro, one can easily resell a real live pro unit.
much of what is said is speculation
how many used vectors are there on ebay
the immediate response is they are all probably broken
but they could also be perfectly functional and with the addition of the pro handset could live again
so this is the only reason i suggest this idea and its not a real ‘modification’ really its just plugging in a plug <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
when people spend £30 + for a one touch and then struggle - i have seen numerous articles and what are effectively ‘lash ups’ that still dont come close to the vector straight out of the box and know people who really struggle with that and scar then i still think for its simplicity of use compactness then the vector is ok - i have one so i can speak with experience - most that comment do not have one
Buying Pro level machines on ebay is still ‘used goods’ and used by whom - some are worried about hygenic issues - so there is no warranty the moment you buy them so a person could spend 1000 bucks and after a month it goes wrong what do you do
in British law and most purchasing law worldwide the contract is with the seller not the manufacturer so getting money back within 12 months is not a problem - and most people would return to the retailer not the manufacturer in any case - this item is not sold from the factory it is retailed by legitimate and established retail outlets all over the world - who also carry spares too - so that immediately put me at ease. This is light years away from the cowboys at www.global-electrolysis-supply.com now they are in a league of crud never thought possible <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> its unfair to even compare the vector to them. The biggest problem with the vector is the tweezer can remove hairs permenantly statements and thats where it all goes wrong for them but they do mention on their website that this unit can be used with a pro handset and it works <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but they do not sell the handset with it - i think they should and get their reputation back once and for all. As that wouldnt cost that much more to do or add to the box.
i still think people should save up and spend a little more and buy a pro unit but its a risky business buying them used as if they fail there is literally nowhere to go - i fortunately have had no probs with my Apilus but you cant help thinking ‘what if’ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Actually, if you have a pro unit, you do have somewhere to go. All the manufacturers will fix their equipment, and have authorized service locations around the world. If you live near one, you may even be able to have the thing fixed while you wait, or in by 9am and out by 5pm. When you consider the cost of a new unit, the cost of buying even a broken unit and fixing it is still a savings. Furthermore, most used units are not broken. The most maintenance they usually need is a recalibration if it is a computerized model. It is not a product that gets moved around much, and there are no moving parts on the inside of the machine. The odds of getting a broken electrolysis machine are lower than buying a broken radio or VCR, but they all cost about the same to fix.
As for sanitary issues, what sanitary issues? A pro machine is designed to be used with sterile disposeable probes/needles, and the stylus/probe holder are designed to be sanitized. If you are worried about the fingerprints of the last person using the thing, pro units are designed with the idea that things like Lysol will be used to sanitize the surfaces, Vectors are not designed with this in mind.
But I don’t mean to argue with you. I think some may think we are making more out of this than we are.
We both agree that a pro unit would be best. I hear you when you say a Vector is something a person could get started with, and if after trying that, they think they are serious enough to go for the pro unit, then all systems go. I hear you.
i think i will do fors and againsts
its compact light and portable
it can easily be adapted to run a pro handset just buy one and plug it in - banana fit
it is ‘relatively affordable’ for a new item
it has a foot pedal
its mains powered - so no batteries
being light keeps the international postage costs down quite considerably - for ebay shoppers this is a big issue
its sold by independent and chain retailers worldwide not just from a sleazy website
its compact enough to put in a vanity case - a pro machine can be a bit of a ‘lump’ when not in use <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
spare conductive pads cables and gels are readily available in heart monitor and ab belt excercise type shops - takes a standard banana fit plug in male jack and is a ‘pro standard’ for handsets
it costs $200 but with the exchange rate thats under £120 GBP - and a one touch can cost up to £30 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
it works with the needle handset
its plastic and feels more a kin to a plastic digital camera in construction some may be put off but in its defence heavy does not always equal good as a metal box does not do anything anyway
they need a step down transformer to run in the UK
the tweezers comments about permenant hair removal have done more damage to them than supplying it with a pro handset could have prevented in the first place
it costs $200 for US residents :
the tweezers DO NOT work
Don’t forget the gel is useless unless you are using it as a ground or part of your sponge contact on the inactive pole. You can’t use the gels and contact pads for hair removal. That part is a quack claim.
Ok, let’s look at another alternative: building your own. All that’s inside a simple Galvanic device like a One Touch or the Vector unit is a 10K Potentiometer with a DC power supply.
Here in the U.S., one could buy:
10K pot from Radio Shack $2.89 : http://www.radioshack.com/product/index…rentPage=family
A momentary foot switch from ebay $9.99 :
DC voltage, even a 9 volt battery or any spare DC appliance power supply of around 9 or 12 volts (amperage is unimportant since electrolysis uses very little wattage).
Put it in a little project box, Radio Shack $2.29
Use a small dishwashing sponge from the grocery store to contact your skin (I use velcro to hold it on to an ankle or wrist). Wet it with some salty water for good conductivity.
Add some banana plugs, jacks and knobs to easily connect everything. An alligator clip to connect to the sponge.
For $20 you can get a professional stylus:
Some probes (50 for $20):
and you’ve got a complete pro galvanic system for under $75, including the handset.
To assemble, it’s just a simple series circuit (so the order is not important). Your body contacts the sponge, connected with an alligator clip on a wire to the potentiometer which then goes to the Positive side of the power supply, which then connects to the handset. The pots are designed where you can use the center terminal and either of the other two depending on whether you want more or less resistance turning it clockwise (less resistance results in a higher power setting). You don’t really need a meter as you’ll get a feel for what’s happening pretty quick and it’s handy to put some tick marks on the box around the meter knob, but you could put a multimeter into the series circuit for $20 to watch what you’re doing:
Not much mystery with these devices and with this setup, it’ll last a long time and it’s easy to maintain as you’re aware of everything inside. My first unit had a few extra parts and is discussed at http://www.geocities.com/hairfreethere/
With this unit, I’ve removed all of my underarm and pubic hair. It’s lasted for years with zero maintenance. Permanent results that are cleaner than a baby’s skin.
However, Galvanic electrolysis can be rather slow, so if you’re looking to clear large areas or you don’t have the extra time, then a more expensive pro machine can be faster, but also takes more skill and has more risk of doing it wrong with unfortunate results.
Let’s get real, this is a much, much better option:
well this is only available in the US post wise
and if it were worldwide it would cost something like $80+ to post it and on top of that you have to buy a step down converter costs approx £25 on top there is no handset with it so that would have to purchased on top and yeah there is only one of them and thats now sold. It was a bargain though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
its not the deal first thought and its still second hand
as for the
“and you’ve got a complete pro galvanic system for under $75, including the handset.”
assuming the person is competent to solder it all up that is - most people have no clue about this sort of thing - most people open a radio and just go duh whats all that do - sometimes people forget that not everybody is able to handle ‘circuitry’ - and saying its easy is like a surgeon saying brain surgery is easy - yeah it his for him as he is trained to do it and competent to do it.
and not only that somebody has spent $75 for what is essentially a home made ‘lash up’ that although functional would put the fear of god up most people. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and has no resale value whatsoever.
Don’t forget the gel is useless unless you are using it as a ground or part of your sponge contact on the inactive pole. You can’t use the gels and contact pads for hair removal. That part is a quack claim.
yeah as part of the ground as the pads can lose their ‘stickyness’ so this is a way to extend their life - i have made it clear that tweezers do not work with the gel but the gel is still conductive gel and so can still be used although in a different way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I’m just suggesting that the $35 machine home brew (minus stylus and probes) that “would put the fear of god up to most people and has no resale value whatsoever” has equivalent functionality to the $200 vector unit (which has those same qualities). So for those that can handle basic soldering and understand simple wiring, it’s a cheaper alternative. You could also use 9 volt batteries and save on your expensive transformer.
Anyway, it also illustrates the basic guts of the Vector unit so that people don’t get impressed over a $200 machine that doesn’t have much to it.
If someone can find a great deal on ebay for a pro unit, then that’s the best way to go. Definitely better than considering the Vector unit. So the evidence for keeping away from Global continues to mount, which is the topic of this thread.
In my view, one would be better off getting the parts list discussed and paying the local science student, teacher, or electronic repair person to put it together.
Since the machines made by global and vector tend to fall apart, one would eventually have to have it serviced anyway. The pro units are at least sturdy, and made to last, in addition to needing no additional items or modifications.
Sparx, before I add anything more, I do want to say that people that go out and assemble something that can work instead of being a ‘consumer zombie’ walking mindlessly towards the hanging bubblewrapped, over-priced product, and handing over money, totally get my respect. I think it’s great you looked at the whole situation and said, ‘I can make that!’
But, pro machines are out there for less than the Vector unit, and probably in the UK too. Yes, they are used, but so will the vector unit be once you open the package and test it out. In the electrical world, things work for a hundred years -or not at all. Electronics and the word ‘used’ really don’t relate much. Your electrical design abilities would be better used to repair a '70’s or '80’s blend capable machine, if not just to resell to someone not as inclined as yourself. THe older machines are not that complicated, anything broke can be found with a multi-tester and fixed with an off-the-shelf soldered component. And, this machine will allow you to grow using thermolysis techniques. If time is money, this step in blend ability would pay for itself.
My whole hesitation in that is that the current levels knob can be bumped, causing skin damage. The switches and potentiometers would have to be top quality to deliver smoothly increasing current. Cheaper potentiometers can jump current delivery in an unsuspectedly fast rate, as can better quality dirty pots. To me, this does not qualify as ‘pro-level’. If I went to a pro that used such a homemade device, I’d run like hell. Safety, reliable smooth delivery, quality materials, reputation to me represent a pro level machine.
And I just want anybody at all reading this considering alternative; solder in place an inline fuse. Anything that plugs into a wall, or delivers a potentially injuring current should always have an appropriately guaged fuse in place. There are enough horror stories dealing with hair removal.
Don’t get me wrong Sparx, I think you show the type of ingenuity that more of us need. If it works for you than it’s statement about true do-it-yourself determination. But one getting into it shouldn’t re-invent the wheel, there are units out there that really don’t cost all that much. Anything below $200 USD is really going to pay for itself if it can be mastered.
There are only 2 issues here
- the consumer zombie - well this same consumer zombie bought a Apilus SM-500 - and thats only for the Flash the basic electrolysis is the same on most models - but noone is going to pick on that - the reason perhaps when people are in awe of something even if they do not own it make people create fantasy assumption about it - its like god if i win the lottery i will buy a Ferrari yet anyone who knows somebody with a Ferrari will tell you they are a pain in the a*se to drive and people think people who drive F are burks anyway
but nevertheless its still a good car but these same human behaviours can get jammed in the other direction too and become what psychologists call ‘wicked issues’ in other words no amount of proof or convincing will change their standpoint - on the vector this is one such issue
Wicked Problems: Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them.
despite the fact i possess one of these and have proved it and also own a top of the range apilus - not the consumer zombie that is thought - i can make educated and accurate comparisons - and the vector is still compared with global electrolysis its not the same - and bunching it in with them is not going to make it so.
Since the machines made by global and vector tend to fall apart,
where have you got this information from - as unless you have purchased one yourself - and i feel there is no way in hell that you would appear to do that after what you have said about it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> then it can only be hear say - i have a vector right here - i can take a picture of it with todays paper if you like LOL like the kidnappers do <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> and its as good now as it was a year ago - i have upgraded to an apilus SM-500 because I love the flash thermolysis but if it went wrong - which it could of course <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> - then i would quite happily re use the Vector as my now back up machine.
its as you say a plastic box with some soldered parts in it i have one it works its reliable it has never ‘broke’ so now you have another opinion now that you can add to all the tales of ‘woe’ that perhaps can now for once and for all balance the hear say arguments.
I have nothing against people making home made machines go for it - but i simply cannot be doing with all that sort of thing my degree is not in electronics and i do not know anyone who could solder up anything <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
PS the only way i could see this vector breaking is if you dropped it on the floor were ‘rough’ with it or kicked round the garden <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I don’t think anyone was calling YOU a Consumer Zombie.
I did have both a vector and a global, purchased new and delieverd straight from their hands to mine. I may still have them, but I can’t really bother to dig them out of the attic, out from under the Fondu Set, and The Flow-Bee and the different types of pro units I don’t use anymore in order to make you the same kidnapper’s ransom offer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, you and I don’t need that kind of foolishness, as we have talked outside of here, as you know, and I do respect you, your opinions, and your intellect.
Now I will grant you, I bought my Vector many years ago, (90’s I think) and it is possible that Vector makes a better product than they did back then, but the one I got was unreliable at current delivery, was very hard to make small adjustments to, because the knobs were too small for a short up tick, did not take current spikes well and the energy display needles stopped working almost immediately.
It is possible that the current spikes are all that killed my otherwise perfectly crafted Vector, but, when one makes an electrical device, spike protection is something that is supposed to be there already. God forbid you are using the device around the time someone else is heating a burrito in the microwave or the refridgerator or air conditioner ends a cooling cycle.
I have not purchased one in 2006, so you can call my 2006 opinion to be something of the equivalent of my opinion of Hyundai cars. My sister bought one in 92, it cost her at least $350 every 3 months on top of the “regular mainenence” and the electrical system totally blew out under 15,000 miles (they eventually agreed to pay for the car’s new electrical system, but not the new alternator that our mechanic had to put in to find out that the whole car had been fried). I am aware of hearsay that they make better cars now, and have an even better warrantee than when my sister had hers, and I would not ever buy one new in order to find out.
All this talk is possibly obscuring my main point in telling people to avoid this product, simply, that used pro units can be had for about the same cost or less than almost anything either Vector or Global sells, and I have only ever even heard of one person buying a used machine that actually needed something resoldered on the inside, and doing that would not take a rocket scientist, just someone who knows how to solder, and can see where the wire has broken free, or where the old wirers have insulation that got backed hard, and flaked off. In that case, you replace that wire. 99% of the time you buy a used pro unit, the only thing you might have to do is purchase a new probe holder, because they break with long term use (twisting, bending and yanking) and/or replace a footpedal or ground that the owner lost while it was being stored in the garage next to the lawn darts.
It would be one thing if someone was spending $20 or $30 to get something to find out if they have what it takes to do this, and then choosing to go ahead and get a pro unit to increase their possibilities with their new skills. It is quite another to spend $200 or more on something that is less than one could get by spending the same money elsewhere, and yet get a product that starts out being better, and allows you to use it in more advanced ways as you grow in capabilities. … but you know this for yourself. You see how your SM-500 would be a way better thing for a home user to start with, as its pre-sets help even the most unknowing person rely on the fact that the machine starts out with more information on treatment energy than you did. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We want consumers to make educated choices, and you are doing a great job in helping them do just that. Hang Loose Brudda, we come in peace.
I agree with James’ remarks in this topic, for the most part.
However, Mantary is again making claims that seem to come from his imagination. I’ve used cheap potentiometers in a variety of projects and never seen them “jump current delivery in an unsuspectingly fast rate”; in order for this to happen, the pot would have to be damaged or defective. Any item that is damaged or defective should be avoided, but a regular, normally working pot will not do what Mantary claims. The pots in a pro unit are just as susceptible to failing and causing problems.
Also I’ve heard of some people making their own multi-needle galvanic devices and are highly sought after for professional treatments due to their high effectiveness. So Mantary would run like hell, while many others are running towards that same proven technique. I don’t care if a device is made by a company (including Global) or made by an individual; if it functions properly and it does a good job, then the lack of a company backing is not a big negative. It’s almost like saying you’d only buy a car from a major manufacturer, but if someone with the proper skills assembled a beautiful custom race car with plenty of performance and structural safety, then one should run like hell away from it; yet you see many drool over and desire such machines.
Mantary’s statement about things in the electrical world where things work for a hundred years probably brought chuckles from everyone that has ever owned any electrical device. It is simply and totally false. Look at all the repair shops for TV’s, computers, etc. out there which are still in business. And then in the same paragraph he talks about fixing an older machine with solder: apparently it didn’t last 100 years.
Mantary’s statement to include an inline fuse is also an example of his cluelessness. In galvanic electrolysis we’re talking about DC current in the range of about 50 to 700 micro amps, where even a 9 volt battery as the power source can provide enough power to do damage. Good luck trying to find a fuse of under a milliamp (1000 micro amps). And even if you could, that doesn’t protect anyone, because the main danger with galvanic electrolysis is over treatment, which involves power and time. So even at the lowest setting with nothing spiking out of thin air, if you treated for too long, you could do skin damage. The thought of an inline fuse for galvanic electrolysis is just more fantasy that this can in any way protect anyone. Throwing out imagined and incorrect statements just confuses people. People are much more likely to create their own horror stories with the incorrect application of the powerful aspect of thermolysis available on a pro unit.
If Mantary is indeed just throwing out jokes and fantasies, then he should preface his remarks so that unsuspecting readers don’t take his statements as fact. Sorry if it sounds like an attack, but incorrect statements do not help readers of the forum that are trying to find good information.