Underarms!!!

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hi all, first I want to say thanks to all the knowledgeable consumers & professionals who post here! I’ve found the info invaluable. I started electrolysis (thermolysis method) on my face last month with a woman recommended by a friend, I’ve been going every 2 weeks and the other day we started on my underarms. I’ve been doing all kinds of hair removal in all kinds of places since I was 8 years old…I resumed waxing after a terrible experience with the laser a few years ago, but recently I was breaking out in bumps after every treatment and I knew I had to try something permanent. After the upper lip I decided underarms were the next priority since I love sleeveless tops but waxing hurts too much and shaving’s irritating and bad-looking.

We did about 20 minutes on each underarm. I was squirming after a couple minutes, so she applied LMX to the left and let it sit while she finished on the right. I found it helpful even leaving it on a short time, so I bought a tube and next time will apply an hour before treatment.

After 20 minutes on each I was reaching my pain tolerance so I was glad the appointment was over…but it looks to me like we only cleared, at most, 1/4 of what was there! She said my hairs in that area “very consistently” grow two per follicle, perhaps that slowed us down (it takes more than one treatment to get both hairs, right? Or can a pro get both with one zap?). Also, she spent a lot of time in two very red, ingrown areas. Anyway, I’d been growing it out for her all week, and afterward the remaining hairs felt quite irritating against the raw skin she’d treated. Even worse, I’ve been afraid to shave and make it even scratchier. Luckily I don’t have any bumps or scabs after 2 days, so I suppose I’ll try and shave today.

At this rate I’m afraid it’ll take ages to clear…hopefully the LMX will let me tolerate a longer session so we can get to clearance in a reasonable amount of time. I’m not optimistic about being there before summer, but perhaps by fall? Upping the frequency to weekly sessions doesn’t seem to be an option, since it takes almost that long to grow the hairs long enough for her to remove quickly.

After 4 sessions I’m still reserving judgment, but if these two areas go well I can’t wait to start on bikini, navel, fingers & toes, and she even said she’d thin out my arm hair so I’ll have a look more natural than a smooth wax–and permanent!

Would love to hear others thoughts/experiences on underarm treatment! Thanks again for everything.

#2

Hello VillageGirl,

I would suggest you wait a bit and see the outcome of your electrolysis first before starting other areas.

I am just a bit concerned that you mentioned that you had Laser before, and you are now getting thermolysis. Speaking from science, there’s no difference between thermolysis and laser, both heating up hair follicles. If theromolysis does not work for you, I would suggest you consider galvanic.

#3

i have had my underarms worked on once. usually on the body i wait about a month between treatments because the hair seems to grow SO much slower there so i am going to have them done again in about a week or so. it took a little over an hour on each underarm to clear them. i did notice there was hair there that the electrologist didn’t get though. but majority of it was gone. one underarm wasn’t too painful, i sat through it with nothing. the other was unbearable. i used lmx on that one too. lmx works well for me whereas emla doesn’t work at all, wears off immediately. i had only shaved my underarms prior to this so there wasn’t an ingrown hair problem or anything of that nature. anyways that’s my experience. i don’t think it will take that long to do them if you get them cleared and come back maybe monthly but we’ll see how it goes!

#4

Thanks for the info, ants & jessie. The problem I had with the laser, which I chose because I thought it would be fast & permanent on my full arms, is that after the first treatment on the right arm I broke out into ugly, painful, perfectly circular scabs all up and down my arms. I was being treated by a nurse/esthetician in my dermatologist’s office, so when my Dr. said that was “par for the course” I continued with the other arm the next day. After a few weeks the scabs fell off and I was left with ugly, perfectly round white patches. Eventually these darkened into ugly, perfectly round tan patches. Over time they’ve faded a bit - I can still see them, though my friends tell me it isn’t noticeable. They get worse in the sun, so I haven’t been to the beach since this happened (1998). Needless to say I never went back for the follow-up treatments, I saw no reduction in hair growth, and I was out $800…which could have bought me 4 waxes a year for four years. I was furious.

A specialist later asked if I tan easily (yes) and speculated that the laser had targeted not only the dark hairs but the latent melanin in my skin, bringing it to the surface and causing the hyperpigmentation. I think he was on to something, since that would explain why the test patch had come out fine - it was on the underside of my arm where there’s less pigment! So let this be a warning, people! They say the laser works on light skin with dark hair; however, if your skin is -potentially- dark but you’re a sunscreen & shade kinda person, beware!

As for galvanic method: my electrologist mainly uses thermolysis, and said she switches to blend for tough cases. She said her own treatment (20 year ago) was with galvanic, and while she was so thrilled with the results she went into the business, most of her clients find it too painful and slow. She knows I had laser in the past, I will ask at next appointment for her thoughts on any similarities between laser and thermolysis.

#5

No need to ask about that one.

Speaking from science, there’s no difference between thermolysis and laser, both heating up hair follicles. If theromolysis does not work for you, I would suggest you consider galvanic.

The similarity between LASER and Thermolysis ends in the fact that they rely on heat to perform the tissue destruction. Electrology’s Thermolysis sends an FM radio signal into the follicle, causing vibrations, which heat the area touched by the probe, and causes the moisture in the tissue to change from liquid to vapor in an instant. The vapor rushes out of the follicle up through the top of the follicular opening, thus flash cooking the tissue in its path. This is why Electrolysis Thermolysis works well for permanent hair removal, it is spot specific. When the equipment is good, and the setting is done well, one can even limit the damage to the lower portion of the skin’s layers, leaving the upper layers untouched by tissue damage.

LASER, on the other hand, sends a broad band of energy through a large area keyed to a color, and everything in that area that contains that color (they may choose green, red, or black) will heat up. In this case, your freckles heat up at the same time as your hairs, and even pockets of pigment not visible from the skin’s surface will heat up, and potentially desiccate, causing collateral damage to the tissues surrounding any pigmented items. This leads to unpredictable patterns of destruction, and unreliable healing issues. On top of that, the studies the manufacturers of LASER equipment stake their legal department’s reputation on, say that the best case situation for LASER Hair Removal is a 60% reduction of hairs in the area. This leaves most people in the situation of realistically needing to go into the proceedure expecting about plus or minus 30% reduction. This is why you see so many people who have suffered horrible 3rd degree burns for the sake of LASER treatment, and still have hair growing when their treatments are over.

To say that since Thermolysis and LASER both utilize heat to effect treatment, they operate the same, is like saying that both conventional and microwave ovens use heat, and therefore offer the same results. As anyone knows, you can’t toast bread in a microwave because its unique atom excitation proceedure simply doesn’t cause the same physical change that straight heat transfer of hot air does.

On another subject, many people have a difference in feeling in the left underarm (very sensitive) compared to the relative ease at which they treat the right underarm. I am usually able to clear both in the space of 90 to 180 minutes on a first time client. Finally, yes, most of the time you will have to do a double insertion on a two hair follicle, unless you have the treatment energy up high enough to treat both at the same time, which could cause a high frequency blowout if you come across a particularly well hydrated follicle.

#6

Thanks James! 1 more question: when you say it takes 90 to 180 minutes to clear the underarms, do you mean all at once or over time? The total minutes worked would be greater if you do it over time, right? Because non-active hairs will have become active since the last treatment? I guess my question is, do I need be less of a wimp and schedule a longer appointment in order to get this done in a reasonable amount of time?

What’s your opinion on deodorant? Avoid?

I guess that was more than 1 question, sorry…

#7

The similarity between LASER and Thermolysis ends in the fact that they rely on heat to perform the tissue destruction.
James, I stand correct.

Now,

Electrology’s Thermolysis sends an FM radio signal into the follicle, causing vibrations, which heat the area touched by the probe…

FM radio is EM wave, so is the light.
You can also consider FM radio as light in different spectrum. Except Laser is a much advanced technology (compared to FM radio), the energy were transmitted through light, not probes.

To say that since Thermolysis and LASER both utilize heat to effect treatment, they operate the same, is like saying that both conventional and microwave ovens use heat, and therefore offer the same results.
James, using microwave as example is a very bad idea.
Microwave only works in microwave frequency. We can talk about a broad range of microwave frequency or just refer to most commercially available one which is the frequency of water.
Now let’s back to the resonant, coherent knowledge from physics or electrical engineering. The frequency is simply not right for killing hair follicles.
Back to your example, the microwave oven only works for heating up things with water molecules. If you dip your bread into a bow of water, you can heat up the bread with microwave oven.

So what’s wrong with thermolysis? <i>Most electrologists don’t want to tell you, thermolysis has very high regrowth rate. 50-80% regrowth.</i>
Most electrologists do not offer galvanic (preferable multi-probe galvanic) because thermolysis can give clients instant “smooth” result.

Why do I recommend galvanic electrolysis. 5-15% regrowth.

It’s all back to science, if I want to use the “heat up” method. I would go for laser instead of thermolysis, why? same principle, and less chance of inflection and scars.

#8

when you say it takes 90 to 180 minutes to clear the underarms, do you mean all at once or over time? The total minutes worked would be greater if you do it over time, right?
I don’t want to disappoint you, but you will need a lot more for both underarms. You also need repeated clearing for underarms.

As for deodorant, my electrologist told me that I should avoid that for at least 24 hours. 48 hours is preferred. And also avoid high-active activities for 24 hours.

#9

I can usually get first clearance on underarms in 90 to 180 minutes in one sitting. My underarm clients usually walk out the door the first time with bare underarms. If not, they are at first clearance on the second appointment.

All Electrolysis Treatment Areas should be left clean and dry for 24 to 72 hours after treatment, so that would mean no deodorant for at least a day, and nothing that would cause salt (as in sweat) to enter the wounds.

Yes, you will need more than one appointment, because the minimum any area can be cleared to full permanence is 3 clearances.

I stand by my microwave example, because even with water added to bread, you can’t toast that bread and that is a good analogy to the difference between what thermolysis does, and what LASER does. I don’t have the time to write the research paper that would bridge the gap between your theoretical understanding as an outsider, and my experiential understanding as someone who does it, but keep in mind that according to science bumble bees can’t fly, and any girl who has run away from one can attest, they seem to do it very well and quite effortlessly.

Although I agree that Galvanic is more sure on a per hair basis, (and I have said this many places on this site) we have discussed this previously on this site, the reason you do thermolysis is that you get full clearance quicker, and can continue treatment in private because no one but your electrologists knows you have hair to treat.

Thermolysis can have a 100% kill rate if done properly, the problem is we can’t see in the follicle most times, and thermolysis depends on the positioning in the follicle. This is why many electrologists resort to settings that are too high to try to gain an advantage over the natural tendency to insert in such a way that the optimum current is delivered does not occur.

Thermolysis makes up for this tendency by getting so many more hairs done per minute, per hour, per appointment that it overwhelms the per hair efficacy of galvanic because thermolysis can treat ten to twenty hairs for every galvanic treatment. The difference between Blend and Thermolysis is less, but Thermolysis still treats 2 to 5 hairs per Blend Treatment. By your own numbers Ants, if thermolysis treats 2 to 3 times as many hairs per hour, it has equaled the permanence of galvanic, while delivering a visual effect that is much better. You have more bare skin and don’t have to worry about those hairs that were visually cleared, and weakened for a long time. The bonus is, when they are retreated, they will require a smaller amount of treatment energy, and that equals a more comfortable treatment no matter what modality is used.

If you assume that a thermolysis treated hair needs to be treated two to three times to achieve permanent removal, AND I DON’T, thermolysis would still end up reaching full permanence quicker than Galvanic in an area larger than the upper lip.

In the end, Electrolysis Modalities are equal, which one you use depends on variables including client priorities. Since most client’s priorities are headed by quickest time to no one sees any hair on me, thermolysis is the most popular modality, as it delivers that priority best. If your practitioner is good, it also delivers that with permanence with no more regrowth than any other modality.

#10

Village girl: I am a male who has had all of his underarm hair removed by electrolysis. You are correct in that too much work at one time in the pit area can cause that area to become sore. In scheduling my regular hourly appointments, I would have the work done partly in each armpit and partly on the genital hair. The genital area hurt the least. In fact I could go for 2 hour with 2 operators in that area without too much of a problem. As it turned out both area were cleaned of all hair at about the same time. I have never spoke to anyone who has ever regreted having it done and what a great feeling it is to be smooth without the need to shave or wax.

#11

I stand by my microwave example, because even with water added to bread, you can’t toast that bread and that is a good analogy to the difference between what thermolysis does, and what LASER does.
Good analogy? Intentional misleading example I’d call it.
I did not say microwave oven can be used to toast bread. Anyone tries to use a microwave oven to toast a bread (OR tells other people to toast a bread with microwave ovens) simply demonstrated lack of basic knowledge.

I don’t have the time to write the research paper that would bridge the gap between your theoretical understanding as an outsider, …
For your information, I have background in Laser (optoelectronics) for my bachelor degree, and I also have electrical engineering for my master degree. I believe you should drop the word referring to me as outsider.

keep in mind that according to science bumble bees can’t fly, and any girl who has run away from one can attest, they seem to do it very well and quite effortlessly.
Bumble bees can’t fly? James, are we talking about science or myth?
http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/known-math/98/bees

Thermolysis can have a 100% kill rate if done properly
I believe I can borrow this sentence for LASER as well.

Since most client’s priorities are headed by quickest time to no one sees any hair on me, thermolysis is the most popular modality, as it delivers that priority best.
I would like to point out that with LASER both underarms can be cleared in less than 10 minutes. (Not 90 to 180 minutes.)

If you want something that’s really efficient, go for galvanic. And if you want something that’s really quick, LASER is a lot faster than thermolysis.

#12

That was the point of my analogy. You can’t toast bread in a microwave. You can toast bread in an oven. You apparently missed that point.

You ARE an outsider to electrology. You missed that point as well. If someone could bridge what I know of electrology, with what you know from your field, we could find the common ground that we both irrefutably would agree (and we are not really disagreeing on much here).

LASER can not provide Full Permanent Hair removal of all hairs reliably to both underarms in 90 minutes, or 180 minutes.

I never said that Galvanic was a poor choice.
I simply said that most people choose thermolysis for the reasons stated.

Relax

#13

I never said that Galvanic was a poor choice.
Good. And I did not provide wrong information on galvanic.

And we both agree Laser and thermolysis both kill hair follicles by heat. Hence my concern (to the original poster) was since Laser did not work for her, my logic told me that she should go for galvanic instead. (I am pretty sure my logic on this account is far better than your Bumble bees analogy.)

#14

OK, grow up. The point is that galvanic is much slower than thermolysis. Yes it has a higher kill rate, statistically speaking, but the reason thermolysis is used is because one can work much quicker with it. Thread closed.

#15

OK, grow up. The point is that galvanic is much slower than thermolysis. Yes it has a higher kill rate, statistically speaking, but the reason thermolysis is used is because one can work much quicker with it.
Another reason is the setup cost (machine) for multi-probe galvanic is a lot higher than thermolysis. Hence a number of electrologists won’t mention the pro of galvanic.

Thread closed.
When did you become admin or moderator?

#16

All Electrolysis Treatment Areas should be left clean and dry for 24 to 72 hours after treatment, so that would mean no deodorant for at least a day, and nothing that would cause salt (as in sweat) to enter the wounds.

It is kind of hard to totally skip deodorant for 24 hours and stay dry (no sweat) for 24 hrs. I do see your point though. I do find that I can get by with less deodorant with practically no underarm hair. I will probably notice an even bigger difference in the summer.

Yes, you will need more than one appointment, because the minimum any area can be cleared to full permanence is 3 clearances.

So does it typically take 3 clearances to get full permanance on a man’s armpits? Or does it take more?

How does multi-needle galvanic compare in speed to thermolysis? I have had the multi-needle and I found it to be less painful than thermolysis. Seems like it is still a little bit slower but not too bad.

If my electrologist spends the entire treatment time on one side, it does get quite sore. But that goes away in a few hours. Plus my armpits were never lasered, so the hair there was more coarse to begin with. It’s well worth the pain and soreness though.

RJC2001

#17

The minimum treatment to full permanent removal of every hair in your underarm (or anywhere else) would be 3 full clearances, spread out over 9 months.

#18

Thanks for the info everyone, and thanks for sharing your experience, barrester. I shaved the remaining hair 3 days after treatment with a fresh blade and a nice shower gel, had next to no irritation and it’s growing back patchy! I’m so pleased. Next treatment later this week, I can hardly wait! Thanks all for your advice/discussion.

#19

Thermolysis makes up for this tendency by getting so many more hairs done per minute, per hour, per appointment that it overwhelms the per hair efficacy of galvanic because thermolysis can treat ten to twenty hairs for every galvanic treatment. The difference between Blend and Thermolysis is less, but Thermolysis still treats 2 to 5 hairs per Blend Treatment. By your own numbers Ants, if thermolysis treats 2 to 3 times as many hairs per hour, it has equaled the permanence of galvanic, while delivering a visual effect that is much better.
I guess I am the only one in this forum dare to differ with information provided by James W. Walker VII.
To completely remove a male transgender’s facial hair, it will take only 200 to 300 hours with multi-probe galvanic electrolysis; however it requires 500 hours and more for thermolysis.

That’s not just all, with thermolysis, each hair follicle would be heated by the probes a lot of times. The high frequency (read: vibration) would produce heat and will destroy collagen in the skin. (the skin elasticity)

Thermolysis is not any faster at all. Just some instant gratification. Therefore, it is sensible for people to choose another method that does not disappoint you periodically, and achieving the result gradually.

#20

This is a crazy discussion. We all know that there are three modalities of electrolysis and that they ALL work to destroy a hair. I do all three modalities in my practice. Thermolysis is by far the most satisfactory of all for large areas with hair density that resembles a jungle.

When I first started my practice, I was a blender 95% of the time. I lost clients who had a lot of facial, neck and upper lip hair because progress was VERY slow, and I understood quickley what the problem was. I don’t know if they gave up or they ran out of money. You need to work as fast as you can on these clients. Some epilators are not engineered to be powerful and gentle at the same time on the skin and can’t kill those androgen fed hairs thoroughly the first time or even the second time around. A slower method causes despair for both the client and the electrologist, unless both are very,very patient. When one side is paying for this service, guess who becomes discouraged first if things are going slowly.

I switched strategy and purchased a state of the art epilator and now I am able to whiz through a difficult case at great speed, leaving the skin intact. This powerful,but gentle epilator has been a real boost to my business because I can get to first clearance very fast. When I see that big smile on my client’s face, I understand how very important it is to move quickley and safely to give them relief from hiding a hair problem so they can look “normal” again. And guess what ants, the happiest part about my job is not only getting to that first clearance, but also how fast they reach the state of PERMANENCE. A modulated current (pulsed current) from a great epilator, with the proper probe choice absolutely destroys that hair growing tissue forever and ever,and the skin looks great when we have reached the end.

This shouldn’t be such a competitiive discussion about hairs per minute or which method of electrolysis is more permanent or faster. I am coming from the point and I think James is,too, that with the new state of the art professional epilators you CAN get faster permanent results, without damaging the skin and it is all accomplished much faster than with galvanic. Electrolysis equipment has advanced since before the 1990’s and thus has outpaced information that is in the old electrolysis textbooks. The principles of electrolysis are the same, don’t get me wrong, but complete destruction of the hair follicle with sequential modulation of the current has real advantage over what the older, non digital, non computerized epilator offers.

If only the electrologists out there would pay forward and up date their equipment (vision included), the money would all come back quickley because clients would be very, very satisfied. They are spending a lot of money for permanent hair removal and they expect results as quickley as possible within that 9-12 month time frame that is needed for most cases.

James has been at this longer than me, but I understand where he is coming from. It is fine to challenge each other here as none of us are greater than the next person, but I must tell you, the discussion is moot when you do not consider or factor in what great tools a professional electrologist has at his or her disposal today as opposed to 15 or 20 years ago. That stubborn hair has no chance to survive if one has a great state of the art thermolysis epilator. In the the hands of a knowledgible electrologist, there is no comparison as far as time to completion with skin that is left in good condition. The best part of working with a great epilator is you can get quicker results when thermolysis is utilized, than if you are using galvanic or blend for large, densly populated hair areas.

Dee