Thermolysis on Coarse Hairs - Bad?

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hello all,

I came across some information that states that the thermolysis method is not meant for coarse hairs, and that it can in fact cause skin damage if used on coarse hairs (Damage which may not even become apparent until upwards of 15 years afterwards!). My electrologist has been doing this method on my female unwanted facial hair, and now I fear I may have long term damage…

To top it off, this source claims that “With thermolysis, we find that with each pass, we remove the main hair, but stimulate follicle sites surrounding the original offender. The skin, does what it does best, and that is to protect itself against stimulation and one of those mechanisms for protection is…(good grief)…HAIR. Often the harder you work, the more there is to do!!!” source: http://hairzapper.com/thermolysis/

I have noticed this exact thing happening to me, I have hairs that DID NOT exist prior to beginning electrolysis/thermolysis…which means it would just be a never ending cycle if I continue with my electrologist who operates in this mode.

What are your opinions on this?

Thank You.

#2

After 37 years in the business, let me reassure you that thermolysis works VERY WELL on coarse hair. It’s the skill of the practitioner that matters, not the modality.

#3

She obviously knows little or nothing about needles and probes.

#4

Thank you both for your opinions. There is just so much conflicting information out there concerning electrolysis, that it’s difficult for me to know who or what to believe. The electrologist from that website above seems very assured of her views, and also seems very experienced and educated.

Laurier, can you please expand on the effect of needles and probes on giving good treatment results?

#5

These are issues the electrologist works out for you. When you go to the dentist do you ask what company made the equipment and the RPM of the drill? If you micro-manage your electrologist and treatments on such terms, most electrologists would show you the door, I know I would. It’s the biggest headache in the business. Do your research and get a referral from a dermatologist. They can guide you to a skilled practitioner.

#6

FlyingProbe is spot on Bee. I could talk all night about diameters, tip lengths ect. but it would be no help to you. Trust your operator.

#7

I didn’t intend to recommend probes or needles that my electrolysis should or could be using, I was just curious about what Laurier meant in terms of the electrologist on that website not knowing about probes and how that makes her wrong.

#8

hairzapper ( Susan Laird) has been largely discredited.There is nothing wrong with thermolysis. It’s being used in this case in the same way that negative politics is in an election. In other words, pretty much everything in that site is bunk.Susan has a long history of bashing thermolysis in an effort to promote galavic, her modality of choice. You can safely ignore whatever drivel she is promoting this year.

Seana

#9

Seana,

Thank you for that information! But would you, or others on here, not agree that for some coarser hairs, galvanic or blend mode is better? Is it possible that some coarse hairs could possibly be resistant to thermolysis and take a few zaps before it finally dies? It just seems like “blend” would be best and more effective to me, regardless of the electrologist because chances of killing the hair with this mode are higher?

#10

No. Thermolysis is suitable to each and every hair. Definitely. And if done right with no risk for the skin.

BTW: blend as described by Hinkel is just Thermolysis with some kind of aftershot/addon by the galvanic component. Have a look into an arbitrary text book on electrolysis and learn how the parameters of blend are determined. Then You will (hopefully) understand.

Thermolysis even has the advantage that You can shorten (reduce) the signal and epilate at two different depths. That will help You to keep the region narrower than it is possible with blend. Like always: You must know and understand what You’re doing.

And if You have a client on You table who is getting serious cramps from the galvanic component of blend You’ll be glad that alls this is true.

Something else: i wear scars from blend in my face. And that were signals with a large galvanic component and only a small RF component which lead to destruction patterns that were too wide for my skin.

#11

Most electrologists today are not educated in proper manual blend. Electrology schools teach primarily thermolysis but automatic blend just in theory. So you’re more than likely to find electrologits out there that do thermolysis and can’t compare their work to other modalities to understand if their kill rates are average or better.
It is not a myth that Galvanic and Blend have a higher kill rates than Thermolysis because Galvanic and Blend rely on chemical formation that floods the entire follicle. Eelectrology text books and educators document this.

Yes, both modalities work.

I can tell you that after 2+ years of spending over $10,000 + on thermolysis and still dealing with thin regrowing hairs, I pulled the plug on thermolysis only approach and started experimenting with multiple needle galvanic and blend. People can say whatever, but I finally started seeing some real changes in regrowth patterns in matter of 2 full clearances . Blend is Gold! I would prefer manual blend as today’s modern automatic machines are not great at blend, but so far, it’s still been better for me in terms of seeing results.

I have an electrologist who mostly works in flash and never discusses blend with clients, but she will insist on using blend for coarse male beardswho have thicker, dense hair because she gets faster outcomes. I would say, experiment and try both. I you’re not satisfied with thermolysis after 6 months of clearance, try blend and see if you notice improved kill rates. As a reminder there are miracle workers who work in thermolysis only and produce jaw dropping results amazing results, but that level of skill is hard to find, especially when electrologists are hard to find as is.

#12

Bee,

No, I would not agree that blend is better for courser hairs.

I did all of my upper face with blend. It is definitely effective.However I also see much faster efficiency with thermolysis, and it kills hair just fine.About the only time there is any real advantage to using blend over thermolysis is on heavily distorted follicles where it is not possible to access the papillae with the probe, in that case the liquid lye is able to get where the thermolysis energy isnt. But these hairs represent a miniscule percentage of the follicles we treat.

Frankly, while I absolutely LOVE doing blend, its too slow for 99% of the work I do. Most is done in thermolysis.

Seana

#13

As I tell everyone, all three methods are equally effective in the hands of someone good with their chosen method(s). You’ll find electrologists good at all three and you’ll find some people, I dare not call them electrologists, that aren’t good at any of them.

That said, IMO, thermolysis requires the most skill to be good at and a lot of electrologists don’t actually work with anything but thermolysis during their training, so they have no experience with galvanic/blend. If you demand an electrologist use a method they aren’t comfortable with, you’re going to get poor results, regardless of which of the three methods that is.

One of the worst things that a client can do, is micromanage their electrologist. By all means, ask questions and point out if things aren’t going right… I’m totally fine with people asking for a specific modality (just accept that an electrologist may not be comfortable in the one you want, so if you’re sure you want that and only that modality, move on rather than force them to do work they aren’t sure of)… but ultimately, it’s the electrologist’s job to pick the probe, settings, etc - after all, we’re the experts. If someone isn’t happy with an electrologist they are seeing, they should try someone else.

#14

Well said, EE!!! Gosh, that was good!

#15

The modality has NOTHING to do with the end result (CASE CLOSED) in fact I fail to understand why these issues continue to propagate among practitioners and consumers Why is this unique to the electrology industry? All electrologists have access to the same information and equipment yet the falsehood that one modality, probe or technique is better continues to crop up. I no longer engage these issues with clients because it leads to more questions, confusion, doubt and distrust. When will this madness end?

#16

The debate will stop when all clients get good results with thermolysis. Thermolysis is the hardest to master.
I know this crazy debacle well.

You see since I do all modalities, people find out about me somehow.
They want to try Blend, they want to try MNG, I do it.
Then, once they feel safe and comfortable with me, I invite them to let me administer thermolysis on their left side and continue with Blend or MNG on their right side only. It is really an issue of trust. Almost always, the client makes the move back to thermolysis.

It would be very special for us to all be able to administer all modalities or at least 2 modalities or at least several techniques within the thermolysis modality. Then, those clients who are slow to heal from thermolysis or a particular thermolysis technique, can compare as they experience more than one technique or modality. Thermolysis is actually wonderful as it gives us so many opportunities to develop techniques. For deep facial hairs, for example, for me, I like to pulse using thicker insulated probes. There are so many ways to get the job done. The challenge is comfort and healing for the clients because they make it a very big issue.

I have always said that for me, for body work, I can not handle any thermolysis technique as it exacerbates my psoriasis and I seek out slower blend.

So, unfortunately, as much as we would like the modality issue to end, the issue is not going to end.

There actually are big issues today. Sometimes I wonder if all of our high end digital pre-sets is having an effect on our ability to think things through. I remember machines with 2 pedals, one for HF the other for Galvanic. Just with the touch of our pedals we could treat each follicle accordingly.

I see that most of us in the electrolysis profession care very much about our work and our clients. I for one, would have loved to find my way to an online dental chat room and get information about the Maryland bridges that were put in place in my mouth that ended up ruining so many of my good healthy nearby teeth. I would have loved to read about patient experience and dentists’ suggestions.

Overall, electrologists are a very kind bunch of people and we try to share information and educate. And this done, with very little great formal education available.

xo

#17

I appreciate the wealth of information provided in this thread. I must say, from my own experience, I’m not happy with the results so far. I don’t have a lot of hair to begin with, but I am noticing regrowth of hairs and feel that another method (blend) would give better results due to to having the chemical action as well, as explained by fenix. I think some of the hairs I have would respond better to that modality… but it’s difficult to find an electrologist who does the blend method. I would just like to compare, because from a common sense view you’d think that the added chemical reaction would make it much more unlikely that a hair would be capable of returning. I tried to bring this up with my electrologist but she insists thermolysis is just as good…however, it’s not so good for my shallow pockets…

#18

well bee, better start sewing a subpocket in those pants to make them larger. In my experience, blend treatments while excellent, take on average 2-3 times the time to complete. For those paying for electrolysis by the hour ( I wasnt when I did my face in blend) that equates to a 200-300 hour removal for a beard, versus 80-110 with thermolysis. You are correct though that blend is indeed very effective, its just too slow at least for me in my practise. I still do some, usually on client request, but not nearly as much as I do thermolysis.It’s not efficient enough for me, or my clients patience and pocketbook.

#19

Thanks Seana. I just feel that since I don’t have that much hair to begin with (sparse chin hairs), I wouldn’t have had to keep going back as many times due to regrowth if my electrologist was using blend. I am also beginning to wonder if my electrologist may be accidentally cutting off the hairs under the skin rather than zapping the root… Anyhow, I just really hope I can stop seeing some of these hairs return time and time again.

#20

I have the blend available upon request, however, I find in most cases high-intensity flash thermolysis is all I need. It’s fast and highly effective when combined with the Insulated Bulbous Probe.