Tweezing and waxing are a big NO for electrolysis. I also saw the thread where clearances and not shaving between electrolysis takes less time to be done with an area.
My question is does trimming instead of shaving help the cause as well since the hair will still remain above the skin when trimmed and thus easier for an electrologist to pick it up.
Yes, trimming is okay but just not too short. This is what I am doing at the moment as I am seeing Josefa later in the year.
If you read the Shaving thread, you will have acknowledged that treating telogen hairs requires a different technique/method (whatever you want to call it). I’m not talking about just not shaving the area but in terms of what the electrologist actually has to do to damage the follicle. Not all electrologists therefore can treat them effectively. By effectively I mean ‘kill’ them rather than what Mr. Bono very nicely termed ‘play’ with them… only to have them come back later albeit maybe weaker. In fact, there is even a idea (prevalent in the UK at least) that telogen hairs CANNOT be killed (or not without causing too much damage), so we must ideally work on anagen and just ‘play’ with the telogens if at all.
So, if the electrologist is only comfortable treating anagen hairs then leaving the hair will not help at all. In fact, it might be a hindrance.
For most practical purposes, trimmed hair and long hair are the same hair. If a client comes in with long hair, I usually trim it myself before I work on it, as it allows me to move faster. If the hair is left long, it can be helpful in guesstimating it’s growth phase and how deep it is under the skin, but I don’t think that this advantage is nearly worth the trouble of getting tangled in long hair and slowing down.
As far as treating telogen hair, I don’t know if there is conclusive evidence either way about how effective treating it is. For any modality of electrolysis to work, you need water in the follicle, the more the merrier, and telogen hairs can run pretty dry. In my own very humble opinion, I rather have the client shave, and only present growing hairs for treatment. Growing hairs are easier/faster to treat, as they are of similar depth and release much better and with lower settings. It seems more cost-effective to work with anagen hair, more comfortable for the client, and less frustrating for both.
My last appt I was able to go the full week without shaving and just trimming the area. I was thinking that if I had done that, it would help my electrologist in her work. The only thing is, this time I walked away feeling stubble in some areas which bewildered me. From your explanation I’m thinking that my electrologist probably feels the way same way regarding working with anagen hair. Thanks for the info!
Hi yb! Do you ask all clients to shave first? Do all obey?
well i have another question now. I have some hair that has never been tampered with trimmed shaved or waxed. These hairs should be shaved before treatment to have only the anagens?
Cant I just have a clearance in the area?
You can have clearance in the area but again, I refer you to what Michael Bono said in the other post about 'play’ing with hairs. If the electrologist is not treating-to-kill the telogens, then you can expect those follicles to produce hair again later on down the line. Not all electrologist’s wish to waste your and their time doing this so would prefer the anagen hairs to be obvious so they can concentrate on them. Of course, the ones that are currently telogen will be in anagen later on down the line and then be treated.
My London electrologist made use of the fact that I bleached my facial hair as she could then make out which hairs were growing and concentrated on those.
Overall, one can argue that it does not make a difference. But if one wants rapid hair removal with the 3 clearances spaced 3 months apart then every treated follicle (or close to every) must be killed first time. Once again, if you have been reading the Shaving thread and other threads, telogen treatment is not something widely accepted so most electrologists are not even thinking in this direction. And then, I don’t doubt for a second that if one does want to, it’s not going to be easy (even though Josefa makes it look like a piece of cake).
As you can see in that thread, Josefa shared with Deanna some techniques for how to treat these follicles using the Apilus Platinum, which were quite different from the Dectro recommendations.
I’ve said this before - if you have an electrologist you are happy with, ask him/her what they prefer you to do, to get the most effective treatment with your time.
Hi yb! Do you ask all clients to shave first? Do all obey? [/quote]
I don’t ask, but I may suggest. This is only before the first clearance, because if they keep up with the schedule, whatever grows out afterward is, obviously, all in the growing phase.
You can go either way. Most people don’t shave the area before. All I’m saying is that anagen hair is easier and faster to treat, and arguably, more effective on the first zap.
I’m not sure which stubble you’re referring to, the stubble where you were trimming, but your electrologist didn’t get to treat during the appointment?
Hi yb! Do you ask all clients to shave first? Do all obey? [/quote]
I don’t ask, but I may suggest. This is only before the first clearance, because if they keep up with the schedule, whatever grows out afterward is, obviously, all in the growing phase.
[/quote]
No, if the customer must make a long journey because in their city or country there is not one electrologist.
But if a client lives in your city, do you ask to shave before the first clearance, Josefa?
Or you still prefer to work in all phases of hairs at once?
I have the bad habit of wanting to lose sight the customer as soon as possible, and they want me out of sight yesterday if they plan to start tomorrow.
The electrolysis is a slow process in itself, but it is the only one which can kill over 90% of hairs in a given area in a single treatment. Provided that a maximum of hairs are present before the start. If to achieve this I have to give my client a bath of donkey milk as Cleopatra made to moisturize the skin, and get enough water, believe me, I will.
Not just to save time and money on travel, really is pure selfishness, I hate when the client says: “Electrolysis did not work, all the hairs are back.”
Are these photos enough evidence for you, yb?
Before (telogen hairs)
[img:center]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-d9nUqahiL5Q/T38XPzflArI/AAAAAAAACHM/6V11R0pKfbU/s640/DSC05889.JPG[/img]
![https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-d9nUqahiL5Q/T38XPzflArI/AAAAAAAACHM/6V11R0pKfbU/s640/DSC05889.JPG[/img]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-d9nUqahiL5Q/T38XPzflArI/AAAAAAAACHM/6V11R0pKfbU/s640/DSC05889.JPG%5B/img%5D){kind=link}
3 months after:
[img:center]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cf1jPSeHQlo/T38XEoy5rRI/AAAAAAAACHE/2GycWrGTJpg/s640/DSC07380.JPG[/img]
![https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cf1jPSeHQlo/T38XEoy5rRI/AAAAAAAACHE/2GycWrGTJpg/s640/DSC07380.JPG[/img]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Cf1jPSeHQlo/T38XEoy5rRI/AAAAAAAACHE/2GycWrGTJpg/s640/DSC07380.JPG%5B/img%5D){kind=link}
Looks good to me, but scientifically speaking, this is not conclusive evidence and does not follow the scientific method.
yb, please elaborate on what you would require to consider it conclusive evidence and following scientific method?
My electrologist agrees with you josefa. She prefers for me to have a clearance than shave and have them grow back and then clear for those untampered with hair i was talking about.
This is huge eye opener for me, since i can get over with these areas soon thios way.
What a scientific study is? It’s definitely not examining 2 photos on the internet. Scientific method - Wikipedia
As I said above, I don’t know if there is such a study. I don’t think that there is, because no one cares enough to fund one. If you can find it, reference it here, as it should be a good read. But aside from the kill rate, I also listed other reasons why I prefer treating anagen hair.
I didn’t ask for the definition of a scientific study. I asked what Josefa (or anyone else) would need to do to so that the evidence is considered conclusive and rigorous amongst her peers?
One can choose to believe it or not but in the above photos the first shows an established area of mostly telogen hairs and the second photo shows the results 3 months after clearance of all those hairs. This is just one such set of many that she has put up on HairTell.
If Deanna is reading this, I wonder if she has an update on the tips and settings Josefa gave her for treating telogen hairs in the “Shaving” thread.
But I suppose all the people who have met Josefa on HairTell (including me and my sister, smurf, boy1989, miro, tealight) and travelled to her for treatment must all be mistaken that she is killing every follicle she treats - telogen or anagen. Right now I’m looking at my sister’s arm test patch which was treated ONCE in September 2011 and the area is over 90% hair free. Pictures in the thread in my sig.
Mr. Bono - if you are reading this. What is your take on telogen hair treatment?
Cue Wil Smith’s song ‘Men in Black’
“You be places you should not be
And you see things that you should not see
Forget that Rosewell crap, we are the men in - the men in -
Here comes the men in black
They won’t let you remember.”
There are many things that the official word from so-called credible sources are just a smoke screen. There are many things that can be shown, but there will always be arguments about what is “proven”.
In short, it may not be something that we could show in a way that any “credible sources” would accept as “proven” so we will just have to keep doing “unproven work” that just happens to be good enough for our clients… and try not to say much about it, lest we be accused of being stark raving lunatics.
Oh, yeah, we already get that. 
That’s an individual thing, isn’t it? People have the right to believe whatever they want, and base their beliefs on whatever they choose.
People have been killing hair and having very good results long before digital photography was around. They’ve worked during all phases of hair growth for a century, and there has been a common belief among them that telogen hairs don’t have the same kill rate as anagen hairs. Who’s right? I don’t know and you don’t know. Are our observations a good learning experience? For sure. But can we call it scientific evidence? Not really. There may always be more factors than are obvious to the onlooker.
Why don’t I know? My telogen hairs have been treated by Josefa with 100% kill rate (okay maybe 99.9%). I don’t need to believe photos, I have first hand experience!