Results of Electrolysis in telogen. 2 ½ year later

system · February 8, 2014, 1:47am

If tomorrow , you do a search for information about Electrology you’re likely to find some web , video, or article that says Electrolysis will be more effective if you keep going "In Time " in order not to let the hairs grow too , so that they reach a resting stage ( telogen phase ) .

Well, here is a proof of the falsity of this statement. Most of the hairs on this man’s leg were treated during the resting phase for once. 2 ½ years later, the results remain constant , showing that not only Electrolysis is effective at any stage in which there is a hair present, but the results are for a lifetime. However, do not expect this % kill rate in a single clearance if a good percentage of the hairs are being forced with the tweezers .

Before (September 2011)

Immediately after:

2 ½ years after (February 2014)

So remember this the next time you read something about this issue, because today is today, and tomorrow is another day.

SeanaTG · February 8, 2014, 1:53am

That is impressive Josefa. A couple questions I have are:

How is it possible all the hairs were in telogen? Were you deliberately catching them in that state?

And who leaves their leg looking like that for 2 1/2 years???

Seana

system · February 8, 2014, 2:20am

No, I did not select the telogen hairs, but in a untouched leg, the percentage of telogen hairs exceeds 80%.

And who leaves their leg looking like that for 2 1/2 years???

This is a question that must be answered by him. I guess he had other priorities .

system · February 8, 2014, 2:33am

Priorities as stomach, belly, chest, and neck:

Stomach before (September 2011)

2 years after. Before second clearing: (July 2013)

Before third clearing: (February 2014)

system · February 8, 2014, 2:40am

Chest:

Before first clearing: (July 2013)

After. (February 2014)

system · February 8, 2014, 3:06am

We have designed a new pattern of growth in his chest, reversing the actual pattern for a “little hair” natural effect. As always, my guide and my inspiration came from Michael Bono, and his magnificent book “Treatment Strategy for Electrology”.

Before:

Immediately After

Deedra · February 8, 2014, 6:25am

Dear Josefa,

Thirty-five years ago, I had the hair on my legs removed with electrolysis. I knew nothing about the hair growth cycles, didn’t care and was not a great researcher on such details related to electrolysis. All I knew was that electrolysis was permanent hair removal and I wanted no part of shaving for the rest of my life, so it was settled.

The Electrologist that worked on my legs, Opal McCracken, died at the age of 97, just a couple of years ago. She never gave me a consult, it was get down to business time from the first time to every time I had an appointment. One thing that I just realized after viewing your fine photo’s, Opal was “killing” each and every hair THE FIRST TIME, no matter what stage of growth the hair was in and I know this is true now that I remember some details. We worked upwards from the ankles and there was very little hair to maintain after a section was cleared. My skin condition was absolutely horrible looking for months and it hurt like hell when I was having a treatment, but so worth it. I’m hair free today and that was the best money I ever spent ( it cost $20 / hour then and it was a tax right off, too).

Yes, we were taught that anagen hairs were the best to treat for effectiveness and I believed that for many years. If I had just thought deeper about my Opal McCracken days of pain and glory, I would have known that the lesson learned in school about only anagen hairs being affected was not true, a long time ago.

Great work, Jossie.

iLikeDIY · February 8, 2014, 7:34am

Awesome! Thumbs up Josefa!!

James_W_Walker_VII · February 8, 2014, 10:46am

…And there is just one more example of my problems with “certifications and licensing”; if you want to pass the test, you have to say that hairs can only be treated in anagen, no matter what you may have actually experienced for yourself.

system · February 8, 2014, 3:03pm

My dear colleague and friend Dee. Have you ever heard that “Schools kill creativity”? Sir Ken Robinson knows what he says.

The primary function of a school should be given the keys to “think for yourself”. Unfortunately, for many of our colleagues, re-learning what was taught in school is much more difficult than the sake of learning something new, even if it means living a lie and the result would undermine customers and how not to yourself.
It is not a matter of being more awkward or less intelligent, it is a matter of attitude. Those who call us “Rockstars” because we dare to question certain rules that seem to have been carved in stone, will continue to find arguments to make people believe that we have a magic wand, when all we do is work hard and try to learn from our mistakes.

Thank you IlikeDIY!

Bono · February 8, 2014, 3:48pm

On a trip to Holland, I was invited to watch the STIVAS testing of electrologists. They would fail the student if they removed a "broken-off hair.” I was shocked, because this “broken off hair” was really a hair in telogen. We talked about this, and the STIVAS changed the test.

And, that’s the point. Tests can (and do) change as new, better, material is corroborated. I don’t think we should “throw out the baby with the dirty bath water!” I’m a supporter of certification (I don’t have it), but an even bigger supporter of licensing (I have it). Not for the profession … for the CLIENTS. For the public.

In a completely unlicensed State, what easy recourse does a client have if they get sub-standard, or even dangerous, work? Indeed, there are ways to confront a perpetrator, but the idea of having a licensing board makes this task much more practical.

Of course, nothing is perfect … but, I’m not a fan of “the Wild West” mentality … at least where a virtual medical procedure is involved. (And yes, I have changed my view on this subject.)

I have an email out to the AEA to answer the allegation about the “telogen question” on the CPE test. (It wouldn’t surprise me.) I don’t know the answer … let’s see what they say!

If it’s there, I say, “SMACK, right in the ‘kisser’!”

Furthermore, the valid goal of any school is to foster critical thinking; to give the student tools to make their own valid decisions and conclusions … to challenge the norms using the scientific method. A lot of schools do this.

system · February 8, 2014, 6:20pm

I’m not defending the practice of electrology without a license. I also got my license in 1980. The purpose of this thread is not to discredit the schools or the examiners. The aim was to provide some clues to the readers so that they are themselves who assess whether the service provided is at the level of the requirements in the XXI century. And by that I mean both the part of hygiene and safety as the theoretical and practical knowledge.

jobber-burger · February 8, 2014, 6:42pm

This is so amazing! And a fantastic preview for myself.

fenix · February 8, 2014, 6:53pm

I believe I asked this in a similar thread, but don’t remember getting an answer. So why do leg hairs have a such a high kill rate from a single clearance compared to chest etc? And what strategy would you use if a person wants a natural looking reduction on legs and not complete clearance?

system · February 8, 2014, 9:40pm

Hi Fenix, my theory is that in areas where there is greater activity (high percentage of anagen hairs) the results of an initial clearance are less obvious. Is not it funny? just the opposite of what they say . But no, the fact that the reduction is greater in areas with a majority of telogen hairs do not mean that treatment is more effective at this stage. This only means that the results are more visible.

Here is my hypothesis. In areas with a higher percentage of anagen hairs (lots of activity in the follicles), a higher percentage of hairs are or in exogen phase (empty follicles whose hair has not yet come to the surface) or at different stages of anagen - anagen I, II, III, IV, and V). All these phases in which there is no a guide hair (pathfinder), and therefore impossible to be treated in the first clearance.

[img:center]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vw9t5ERRyFg/UvagapID2GI/AAAAAAAAFLA/3dPoLp93E5g/w862-h452-no/Alto+porcentaje+en+ANAGEN.jpg[/img]

fenix · February 9, 2014, 4:27am

Thanks Jesefa for taking time to reply. Interesting theory indeed. Imagine if entire body had similar hair growth cycling then most cases would be complete in 2 clearances or less.

system · February 9, 2014, 12:11pm

You’re welcome Fenix. I like to get into these things. Unfortunately, we do not have many opportunities to delve into these issues. What do you think about the hypothesis of the activity? Does it make sense to you?

My conclusions are based on observations of different areas where the proportion anagen / telogen differ. For example, in a densely populated area of hairs “vellus type” (low activity), a single clearance leaves a permanent bald whose edges are clearly distinguished from the rest of the area which has not been treated. With a second clearance area shall be 99% hair free.

Woman´s leg. (Most hairs in telogen)

Before

Several months after first clearing:

Edges where the treatment was interrupted after the first clearance in the buttocks. After several months:

Let’s see what happens in areas with a greater number of anagen hairs. For example, man´s beard, man’s chest, underarms, etc… With the same time interval between the clearances, 3 clearances are required to be 99% hairfree

Man´s beard (Most hairs in anagen).

Before:

A year after the second clearing:

Bono · February 9, 2014, 1:28pm

Jossie, you may be on to something.

In a woman that is not shaving her legs, yes much better results from one clearance. With a woman that is “shaving between treatments” … the results are very slow indeed.

I would surmise, using your hypothesis with the shaving case, that the multitudes of telogen hairs are too short to treat (and they are), so I’m dealing only with the much lesser amount of active anagen hairs. Thus, a much slower return on each clearance.

So many times the client will come in for a “clearance” and say, “Oh no, I’m not shaving.” However, you clear off the area, but if you lightly stroke the skin it feels like rough sandpaper … you can feel the “millions” of too-short telogen hairs just waiting to foul things up. A real unshaven leg feels smooth after a clearance.

Anyway, this makes sense to me and I see this over-and-over. You think?

(I still have not heard from AEA. In support of them, since nearly all schools teach the “anagen only” stuff … and many textbooks say this too, well, that does take them off the hook. At this point, probably deleting the question from the CPE test would be the best idea. Problem is, the test is NOT something that people can observe and nobody really knows what’s on the thing. It’s all done in “NSA-type” secrecy by the “Prüfung Obermeisters,” so that the test is “verifiable and supportable.” It costs AEA many thousands of dollars too … all this “official government-type stuff.” It’s awesome!)

system · February 12, 2014, 12:17am

Yes, no easy trick two old sea dogs like us.

(It takes more courage to change your mind than you need to hold on to an idea … even if deep down you know that that idea is complete nonsense.)

seattleguy1980 · February 12, 2014, 5:11am

Which areas usually have higher percentages of telegen hair? Above I read you said 80% on an untouched leg(btw those pics are very very impressive and I would pay triple what that guy paid if I knew the outcome would look like that!). Do untouched lower backs or arms for example, have this kind of percentage as well? I fear my electrologist believes in the philosophy you all say is “taught” in the books, however it doesn’t really change the fact that I “believe” up to this point she is doing a great job. Perhaps she is killing hair she believes she won’t be able to kill due to the phase it’s in?