Question about Thermolysis

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#41

I am reminded of a scene I did in the play “An Actor’s Nightmare” that goes: I’m sorry… you came here to see Edwin Boothe… and you got ME (sobs) sorry!

You asked for Mike Bono, and so far, all you got is me.

You know what… I would put more of the blame for some of the poor results in the horror pics shown by Ms. Laird on the low quality magnification and lighting which people over compensate for with higher treatment energies (misapplied due to poor insertions due to lack of good vision on where the follicle opening is). Good insertions with appropriate treatment energies don’t cause horror stories like these. Of course, it goes to show why I tell home users never to start their amateur career with thermolysis work. The potential devastation is to great.

I was taught that I only needed to hit 127 degrees Fahrenheit, in order to do a thermolysis treatment ( I have grown to suspect that temps as low as 115 might even do it in some circumstances). I would expect that one would want to avoid sustained higher temps when doing blend, as one is supposed to be only catalyzing the galvanic chemical reaction in blend, not performing a thermolysis treatment with the galvanic currents keeping the needle clean.

#42

Hi James, I believe what you describe to be the right way todo it. We cant actually measure the temperatures but I think we can get close by estimating power levels. This is to say I think blend is very doable without causing thermolysis damage.The problem I see, is actually controlling the machines, the manufacturers are hesitant to tell very much at all about how the machine works, yet in this case galvonic first and thermolysis last just to heat up the lye and agitate it seem to me to be of importance…
I’d picked on michael a bit, because of his statement he uses a mostly thermolysis blend method. No moisture, and there isnt any lye produced.This concerns me, but we know he’s VERY good t what he does.This is the reason I’d asked for his input. I’m wondering why he does it this way, and if he’s tried a more " true blend" or strictly galvonic method at length. He’s been quiet on the boards of late, so i suspect he’s wrist deep in another major project which is keeping him away though.
Ms Laird claims to often work on a seven second cycle so that speed is not as affected by the use of Galvonic. I have to think at the intensity capable of doing this, comfort and tolerance has to be greatly compromised. In general I think alot of pro’s am for 20-30 seconds with galvonic, am I wrong?Unfortunately the amount of available information on galvonic, isnt anywhere near what is out there for blend or thermolysis, yet this is the modulation that is recommended for people starting out.

Without going too far into machine settings, how is it you can be sure of keeping temps below 174 degrees? Since I know you used a SM 500 for a while, the same machine I am working with, I’m wondering if you can share any of the in-built proceedures of it that you use to accomplish this.

The low magnifiction comment concerns me. I have a 5 diopter loop, and I know I’m not seeing as well as I could with an electron microscope which is definitely outside my budget.

Seana

#43

I promise to look back and answer your questions. I’m dealing with a potential nasty health issue at the moment; but so far it’s looking okay (more tests … yuck). (And, finishing up with a kid from Alkmaar … I’m a bit distracted at the moment. “Gott Allemachtig!”)

Still, you are getting great advice … I don’t know what I could add? Friday looks pretty “clear.” But then, I have to get ready for Halloween: the ONLY time of year that I feel truly “normal!” he he he

#44

If Susan Laird, exclusively, spent 9-18 months using the high tech epilators on the market today, she would come to understand that her website is out of date. There are better ways to move along to get any size of hair removed on any type of skin, without spending several seconds or minutes trying to remove one hair at a time. All it takes is some networking with other professionals that perform at the top level, who use thermolysis without ANY of these skin side effects you see on her website. Professionally performed thermolysis, using better tools (certain epilator choices, quality surgical loupes or stereo scopes, perfect insertions) have made her statements untrue, thankfully, and her website is woefully out dated. Her website scares the consumer unnecessarily.

Electrolysis (Gal-VAN-ic, Thermolysis and Blend) is not a process for untrained people. You won’t get a proper education here on the Internet. A training program is the place to start, but to top that off, you will be in the best position if you are lucky enough to be mentored one on one (paid or unpaid) by some one who is not stuck in the 1970’s or below.

Gal-VAN-ic is a one method that works. Blend is another method that works. Thermolysis is another method that works. All three modalities offer permanent results without skin damage if performed properly. Using any of these modalities on your face especially, if you have not had proper training, can result in uneven skin and wrinkling. ALL METHODS CAN CAUSE SKIN DAMAGE IF THE PERSON USING A PARTICULAR METHOD IS NOT TRAINED. As professionals, with years of experience, when we peruse a site like Ms. Laird’s, we see many points that can be disputed because we are in a position to know better.

If you want something that is slow and works, choose gal-VAN-ic, but if you treat the follicle beyond necessity, you may get skin damage. Don’t get lured into one method being better or will not damage skin more than the other. Think in terms of skill with any method. Very close to that skill is using the best tools available.

#45

Forgive me if this is too teachy; I just want to help inform the conversation a tad. “Galvanic” is an adjective that is used to describe a process related to a direct electric current (DC is the common term). It relates to electrolysis in that the current causes the chemicals that make up cells to break apart to make simpler molecules. One of these is lye, which causes a lot of destruction in the hair follicle and is the reason for the effectiveness of electrolysis.

Thermolysis is a process of denaturing proteins in the cells (cooking) with heat, and thereby causing them to die. There are several ways of heating the cells in a follicle. The one usually associated with electrolysis uses an alternating electric current (AC for short) and the frequencies are up in the same range as those used to make radio waves, and so are called radio frequency (RF for short).

There are other ways of heating a follicle. Probably the most common one is a laser. This means laser, and other intense pulsed light, are other methods of thermolysis.

In any method of thermolysis the trick is to get a balance between heating the cells that you want to kill hot enough to denature the proteins, and not so much that you start cooking cells you want to keep, and causing unwanted damage.

1 Like
#46

There are traditional galvanic electrologists out there with successful businesses for a reason. Modern thermolysis hasn’t put them out completely because even with “modern” machines, achieving high kill rates with RF is not an easy task even for those in practice for 20 years. The way D.C. fills up the follicle with lye completely and how RF heating pattern forms in same follicle is more of a challenge to work with to get good results. My guess is that clients who invested into thermolysis treatments get tired without seeing better/faster results and seek galvanic practitioners since even with poorer skills, galvanic does the job surefire way though slower. Treated once slow than several times faster equalizes the process.

#47

It sounds like I stepped into some variance of opinions. I guess I’ll find out how I feel fter I’ve practised more.
Michael, I figured if you didnt seem to be posting, there were good reasons your time was occupied. I hope the health issues are nothing serious.
The thing to do it seems is to try and see. I’m starting with galvanic anyway, as is recommended everywhere I see, Dee, getting into an apprenticeship doesnt seem too likely at the moment, but we’ll see there’s a instructor who may work with me. In the meantime my machine card has arrived so I’m busy figuring out the controls as it is.It has some neat features to be sure and I’m glad I remembered to ask Apilus for a manual to go with it.

#48

When what they should be doing is seeking out thermolysis practitioners who can get better/faster/safer results.

I know we have a few electrologists on here who used to perform multi probe galvanic but now work with modern thermolysis epilators.

As an aspiring electrologist, I’d want to deliver the best work to my clients in time. It is possible to deliver excellent thermolysis work without 20 years of experience under your belt, with the right mentoring and observing your work carefully. I hope she doesn’t mind me mentioning it but Jossie’s daughter is a shining example.

#49

Count me in as someone that use to do multi-probe galvanic on a digital Gentronics, who switched to a high tech thermolysis epilator, only to discover that books and websites are outdated in regard to skin outcome and time to completion data.

People are free to choose how they want to permanently remove hair, within their own comfort and ability. The modalities listed under the umbrella titled ‘Electrolysis’ all have their distinct properties and they all work. This variety is what makes us all unique in how we disable hair follicles. Problems arise when one becomes territorial and declares that their method is the best and other modalities are harmful.

#50

Thanks everyone for the valuable insight.

#51

One more thing, I wanted to talk about. From many months, I get an itching/rubbing feeling on my face/cheeks. I don’t know how to describe it and I am not even sure its really something or its just my imagination. I feel as if some rough thing has been rubbed on my face. Or my skin is exploding. And I find it hard to put this feeling out of my mind. The feeling is somewhat like when skin gets rough/dry in winters.

Has anyone else undergoing electrolysis felt like this? Or is it just my imagination.

#52

I’m a bit confused… Can someone explain the difference between thermolysis and electrolysis? I was under the impression that thermolysis is a type/method of electrolysis?

#53

Thermolysis is one modality ( type) of electrolysis. It uses radio waves to create heat which kills the hair ( and hopefuilly the hair folicle) . Galvanic used DC electrical current to accomplish the same job by interacting with moisture to create lye. Blend, is what it sounds like, a blend of thermolysis and galvanic that creates lye, then heats it up making it more effective.

Sorry Rajeesh I havent experience what you describe

Seana

#54

From what I read in earlier posts, the importance of perfect insertion is paramount in thermolysis. How can one ensure perfect insertion? My current electrologist has good illumination and hopefully good magnification (She has a white light loop kind of bulb). Before insertion, she expands the skin with her fingers probably to see the hair opening clearly and does 2-3 insertion in quick seconds. The hair comes out gently. Now, if hair comes out gently, is it a perfect insertion? Yes/No/Maybe? Or a perfect insertion is not something in human control?

#55

Your indication of a good insertion is minimal pain and the hair coming out without tugging. Do you mean 2 - 3 insertions with a pulse on each and then extracting the three hairs just treated, or three pulses on the same insertion?

Hers is the equipment she works with and her experience.

My tummy is a little itchy at times :slight_smile: I think it would be something to do with the long term healing process.

#56

I meant, 2-3 insertions on the same hair. She does one insertion, then tries to pull the hair with her tweezers to see if it comes out without resistance. It it doesn’t, she repeats the process and in 2-3 attempts, the hair does comes out without much resistance. When the needle is inside the hair follicle, I do feel little pain but not too much.

#57

Rjaneesh, you asked how the insertions are ensured to be perfect. The way this is done is a complicated method. First, one epilated hair is used as a depth guide. A seasoned pro can use that hair as a guide to the exact depth they should be inserting , with a steady hand and a seasoned pro, insertion depth is perfect every time. The other part of it is the hair itself. The first milimeter or so is wetter than the outer hair wich curls, and comes strait out of the folicle. That tels the electrolygist the direction of the hair folicle. Some believe all hairs come out at a set 45 degree angle, but the seasoned pro doesnt believe in this and literally lets the hair be the guide to folicle direction. Get the direction right, and the depth right, and you will never have a bad insertion. It’s this experience that is critical to a seasoned and professional electrolygist.

As for illumination and magnification, what your electrolysist uses may, or may not be sufficient. I have similar equipment and I find it quite limiting in some cases and much better in others. For m own dark terminal hairs it’s fine. It’s “good enough” for most normal work with a reaonable amount of skill, but if you put some fine light velus hair in front of it it’s wholly insufficient. I removed about 500 such hairs yesterday on a transgirl who had been on HRT for over 15 years, and I can tell you I REALLY sttruggled to find both the folicle and the direction of the hair with that kind of equipment. Depending on the light direction, some hair I couldnt see at all. There’s good reason some of the better pro’s here use much better magnification and lighting equipment.

Seana

#58

Seana

I remember having read in your earlier posts that if a hair is getting properly treated, you should be able to pull it out with your fingers. Well, I tried that with some of more bigger hairs that I could grasp and they indeed came out with fingers. Does that mean they got proper treatment?

#59

Actually no I dont think I said that, but I think I know what you were alluding to. It’s entirely possible to pluck a hair with your fingers.
Thediscussion I think you are thinking of was a discussion about Josefa’s technique where I noticed she rarely, if possible uses tweezers. It’s not always possible to work this way but when it is it prevents you from having to swap tools from tweezer to probe for every hair.

The key to determining whether a hair has recieved proper treatment, is in it’s withdrawl. If it comes out without any resistance and just seems to slide out and comes with an intact sheath, then it’s recieved proper amount of treatment energy. Certainly it may be possible to determine this more by tactile feel with your fingers, but just because you are able to pull it out of the socket with fingers isnt a sure indication it’s recieved proper treatment. The WAY it comes out is the indicator.It should just slide out without any resistance,and no tenting of the skin.

Does this make sense?

Seana

#60

Ok. Let me ask few questions.

If a hair comes out gently, what are its chances of regrowing again?

How many times a hair needs to be treated before it stops growing. (Probably very difficult to answer this).

I have considerably less hairs now from when I started undergoing e. So to some extent I can track and recognize them.
Reason I am asking these questions I still see regrowth even when I think they were treated properly.