Question about the performance of my electrolygist

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

Hello,

I am a 27 year old male seeking a qualified opinion. I have been going for electrolysis off an on for about 3 years now. When I started, I was going bi-monthly and having my uni-brow worked on, as well as some hair on the top of my nose. After a while (I don’t remember exactly when), I started going around once a month and also adding in the nape of my neck.

About 1.5 year ago I stopped going to her for about 6 months. I was happy with the results initially, but eventually there was enough hair that I started again going once a month for my unibrow.

To this day I still have dark hair growing in this area. My issues are with some of the experienced opinions on this board about how electrolysis is supposed to work. You say that scarring shouldn’t happen, but have light scarring in this area. You say that one zap is enough for a good electrolysis, but my last time she zapped about 10 of the 50 hairs twice because she couldn’t pull them out after the first time. Even then a couple of the hairs she lifted felt almost like they were tweezed, to which she said “That was a strong one, and you will probably see it grow in finer, I’ll kill it for good next time.” There are a lot of times where the hair feels like it might have been tweezed.

I don’t no whether they are excuses or she knows what she is talking about. When I ask how long until I will be hair free in this area she just tells me that my vellus hairs are constantly turning terminal and the rest is regrowth. She says she is always going to conferences on electrolysis, so I thought that she would know about new methods, but when I asked her about microflash, she said that she never heard of it and the only permanent forms of hair removal were thermolysis, blend, and galvanic.

Last week may have been the final straw. At the end of my session downstairs she charged me $40, which I thought was high (15min is $30) so I asked her how long I was in for (she was 25 minutes late starting), she said about 20 minutes. I set up an appointment for 15 minutes. I wouldn’t have had a problem if she had asked me if she could go five minutes more, but this isn’t the first time she said we went over the time and she charged me more. For $120 an hour ($140 for new patients) I expect more and can see why laser is popular and electrolysis can be a difficult sell to people. I don’t really want to do laser, because I want something that is permanent. I really want to do my back, shoulders, etc., but this really turns me off. Am I not getting a clear picture?

2

Can you submit a picture of your scarring?

One zap can do it, but sometimes it may take two zaps. For a unibrow, I will switch back and forth from blend to thermolysis, depending on what kind of hair I see. It’s quite an instinctive move, but man hair is tough and sometimes this is a good strategy to employ. Did you get cleared everytime you went in? Maybe what you are seeing is new hair follicles coming alive. Being that you are 27 years old, your hair patterns are still in flux and the hair just keeps-a-coming. If you feel tweezing, maybe she needs to increase the timing or the intensity?? If she is using too small of a probe, then the large hairs may be sufficiently treated and so you will get regrowth, albeit, thinner hair.

Men always want to know how long??? If your body is constantly stimulatiing new hairs to grow, you have got to just go in until this calms down. She has no control over your hair growth cycles. No tweezing or waxing on your part either.

She would know what MicroFlash is if she had a newer epilator, but don’t be fooled by the word MicroFlash. All modalities of electrolysis work, including MicroFlash. I like MicroFlash thermolysis because I can clear an area faster, there is less skin reaction and sensation-wise, most clients like it better. PicoFlash thermolysis is even better, sensation-wise.

I am floored by the $120-$140 per hour price range. That’s very high and sounds like she doesn’t even have the best epilators offered in 2008 to justify such a high hourly charge. This is a good way to depress the hairy, not to mention a business’s monthly bottom line. Are there no other electrologists in your area??

Don’t judge the process of electrolysis by one practitioner. Please go on the hunt, and get other consults so you can compare. I wouldn’t blame you for trying laser, but keep in mind that laser may not get you to the final destination that you envision, you may still need an electrologist. I have no doubt that what she told you is correct. I think she knows electrolysis principles, but the tweezing sensation, “scarring” (if that’s what you have)and prices are bothersome. Removing hair is hard work for both sides. If you want your back, upper arms, and shoulders worked on with electrolysis, try very hard to find someone with stamina that can do MicroFlash or PicoFlash thermolysis with high competency. I wish you much luck.

Dee

3

I have had a similar experience with electrolysis on my facial hair. Sometimes, it takes two zaps and you will feel a slight tug. It doesn’t necessarily mean she is doing a bad job, especially given her old equipment.

(Speaking of multiple zaps, is it normal, or “ok” to have to zap a body hair three or four times?)

Next time she goes to the AEA convention, maybe she will bump into James and he can convince her to upgrade her equipment. From what I understand, she could even buy a new machine while she is there :wink:

4

Dee,

Thank you for responding so quickly. I am not sure if it is scarring. I will try to get a picture up tonight. I DO know that sometimes the hairs feel tweezed and I do feel like she price gouges (and then claims the best prices in the area). I guess I am just apprehensive about going somewhere else. I will start to look around. If I could find somebody really fast AND competent, I would have no problem traveling 4-6 hours for complete removal of a large area (back, shoulders), complete with long hours and sessions planned months in advance. I am not really as interested in Laser as I once was, there are just too many factors involved for me to risk wasting money. I also don’t like the idea of being required to stay out of the sun (even with spf 45).

As for the length of time comment. I would instead ask why more women don’t ask how long??? I have seen plenty of ads from electrologists claiming their chosen profession is the only method of guaranteed complete hair removal. This is an obvious (and legitimate) dig at LHR, but is also meaningless if the individual must come back indefinitely. I guess it is possible that women are more used to weekly/monthly maintenance (manicures, pedicures, etc.), while men are only used to getting their hair cut. I understand that it is a process, but you would think some form of an estimate would be possible.

I like electrolysis because I am a believer in proven methods. I just need to find someone that can help me develop a plan towards permanent removal.

P.S. I should add that I don’t question her knowledge of basic electrolysis principles. I am just concerned because reading this forum has lead me to believe that I can do better.

5

Where are you located? That’s a very high price for electrolysis and you should be getting much better treatment, especially at that price.

Do you know the name of the machine she uses?

Btw, microflash is a type of thermolysis, a faster type.

I agree with you that you need to sample other electrologists around. We always recommend it. You really don’t know if they’re good until you have someone to compare them to.

You should be done with any one area within about 12 months if you’re going consistently, i.e. you come in often in the beginning to get to a clearance and then come in as soon as new hair pops up so you can kill it while it’s in anagen and weak.

6

Actually, the line “Electrolysis is the only form of permanent hair removal” is a line that predates LASER. The purpose is to alert the public that all those scammy creams, lotions, potions, and scam devices are a waste of money and time.

Recently, on this very forum, someone was trying to fob off a powdered mix with secret ingredients that suposedly reduces hair growth and eventually leads to permanent hair removal, when used as directed, for the proper length of time. Needless to say, we tap danced on their liver and sent them packing!

On the high price, I would bet you that it has more to do with the location and the economics of having that “marble floor” than her equipment and so on. The higher the overhead, the higher the price has to be to make the business work with a minimum number of clients.

Some of us here are so swamped with our clients, that we lose sight of the fact that many electrologists work only 400 to 800 billable hours a year, and have to carve out paying their yearly overhead and having a profit left over after that from those figures. I have had more than one electrologist tell me that after overhead, insurances, fees, professional membership expenses and credential maintenance costs and taxes, they have only $10,000 to $15,000 left over for themselves. Its like they are volunteer workers.

7

Very informative James. I admit only have been studying the past year, so I didn’t get to see the fad hair removal scams pre-laser. Also interesting that you mention overhead, but not in terms of electrolysis equipment.

lagirl, I live in the between Harrisburg and Lancaster Pennsylvania, about 5 miles from Hershey, PA.

I thank you all for the quick responses to my questions.

8

I got to tell you, it would be funny, if it were not so shamful. I have noticed that 9 times out of ten, the person charging the most for electrolysis is RARELY the person with the best equipment, nor the best results. The person charging the most in an area, often has equipment that could be purchased off of Ebay for the cost of a few hours of their time, and many of our HairTell DIY people have better stuff in their bedrooms. What these most expensive electrologists often have more of is a professional interior decorator, a cleaning service, an ad budget, and a desire to still have an above average income after paying for all those things.

This is why we say here that there is no substitute for seeing a wide variety of practitioners in and around your area to find out what is available. The difference in practitioners and practices is as wide as the grand canyon.

9

Precisely. $120-$140 an hr and never even heard of microflash? Incredible. Sounds all too familiar.

10

Again with the microflash… sorry but thats a millionth of a second… my opinion… it’s not going nearly that fast and the epilator would have to be able to cook a steak in under 2 min.

Sorry… darker,stronger hairs should be “zapped” as you put it multiple times preferably on the other side of the follicle… shouldn’t be tweezed. You can do that for nothing in your own bathroom.

RF(thermolysis) and DC(galvanic) or the blend of both doesn’t change. Age of the epilator makes no difference as long as it is working properly. Maybe she should send her unit to the manufacturer and get a tune-up.

A story from the past: I knew a number of electrologist that would perform electrolysis on their own BED, setting up the epilator on their nightstand. Another one called for a completely 100% stainless steel needleholder because when she got BLOOD all over it the wanted to be able to sterilize it… need I say that I refused to sell her anything and she threatened to take me to court :wink:

11

Regardless of one’s position on the appropriateness of the trademark names, MicroFlash and PicoFlash, an electrolysis practitioner in the United States who doesn’t know that they exist is just not paying attention to the andvancements in the equipment industry at all.

12

MicroFlash is 1/1,000th of a second.

Yes, an older epilator can “kill” hair, and we never have said it couldn’t, but the newer computerized epilators offer so many more positive advantages for the hairy. Once an electrologist comes to discover these positve differences, they wonder why they didn’t make the switch a long time ago - and so do their clients. I’ll go a step further and boldly say that it is highly likely that any electrologist that has not updated her/his equipment, including vision wear, is not fully serving the hairy to her/his best abilities. We must be able to serve the needs of clients with ALL hair structures. Thus, we hear passionate plea’s from posters like “alli”. Believe me, clients are extremely grateful to all those fabulous electrologists that have stepped into the 21st century.

13

I guess I’ve been away too long. Micro and Pico flash are trademarked names that apply to a individual epilator? Or are they just names for doing thermolysis really fast… if so they are not “trademarked”, just saying kleenex for a tissue

Milli 1/1,000th or .001
micro 1/1,000,000th or .000001
nano 1/1,000,000,000 or .000000001
pico 1/1,000,000,000,000 or .000000000001

Computerized epililators were available 30 years ago… what does computerized mean. There were units that had a microprocessor that controlled timing… others that just had a circuit board to convert your dial setting(still analog) into a digital readout for the front of the case… just bells and whistles… One guy actually drilled holes in the front of an epilator and ran christmas lights around the edge so there would be flshing lights. He said it increased business :wink:

14

Dectro (Apilus) uses microflash and picoflash, they are the only ones who do, I believe; my SM-500 does “microflash”.

I was very skeptical of picoflash, but after a (contiguous) few hours of treatment I changed my mind. Versus regular flash (what my local electro uses), the reduction in pain alone was worth it. I went from needing a topical on my upper lip, to getting away with none (not absolutely painless but tolerable with no topical anesthetic.)

I wonder, are they working on an “attoflash” machine right now? :wink:

15

Apilus is not the only horse in this race. My previous epilator, Silhouet-Tone VMC, performed MicroFlash superbly! I believe Clareblend has a new epilator that does the same thing. Gentronics is another company. Don’t know about Fischer, but I assume their top of the line epilator does as well.

Apilus is the only brand that offers an epilator that does PicoFlash thermolysis, so maybe thats what you were thinking about, Vickie.

Dee

16

I knew the Silhouet-tone VMC had the equivalent of microflash, but I wasn’t sure if they called it that (I assumed “microflash” was a trademark of Dectro, I could be wrong.) I almost ended up with a VMC a few months ago, so I knew a bit about it. I almost got it for a song, but it turned out to the a story of the one that got away.

17

The fact that an electrologist has not heard of microflash bothers me much more than if he/she simply chooses not to use it. To me that means one of a variety of things: A. they are lazy. B. They don’t care about the degree of pain delivered to the client, the speed of their work, or the variety of hairs they may be able to treat. C. They are not willing to invest the money or time to upgrade. All of the above are disappointing. Professionals of any kind should seek the most up to date knowledge, at the least, about technology and methods in order to better serve their clients.A well informed electrologist is just as important to me as a knowledgeable doctor, teacher, or dentist. One should always be on the up and up in his/her line of work, whatever it may be. Thats good business and good ethics.

When I only need to treat some random dark hairs on my chin I feel perfectly comfortable going somewhere closer to home who does blend and does not have a brand new machine. I know blend works. The issue is not whether it works or not. The issue is that I have an abundance of other finer hairs that need attention in sensitive areas with small follicles and any well informed electrologist will tell you that to address these with the least amount of suffering on the table and be able to clear an area in a reasonable amount of time microflash or picoflash is the best bet AND OF COURSE WITH SUPERB LIGHTING AND MAGNIFICATION EQUIPMENT. Although I don’t have a lot of money I am spending a great portion of it on electrolysis and someone practicing closer to me could stand to make quite a bit of steady cash out of me for no other than doing the best job they can…but some simply choose not to.And no one has an excuse to not have decent lighting and mag equipment as far as I’m concerned.

18

So I am assuming that “microflash” and “picoflash” are exclusive to Dectro? If they are then they shouldn’t be used as Kleenex(tissue).
If the Silhouet-tone(instantron?) has the equivelent of “microflash” then the word doesn’t mean anything other than kleenex.

Not hearing of a term that is exclusive? to a certain manufacturer does not make someone less knowledgable than another, just means they didn’t get a sales pitch from that company. As an example… our epilator, the compuderm, actually timed out to 1 thousanth of a second. The unit would turn the current on and then off again before you had the foot pedal fully depressed, faster than you could blink your eye, and I KNOW that it was in thousanths not Millionths(micro), or faster (pico). Just buzz words.

FYI fischer now belongs to Hinkle;)

Not to change the subject… but alli, what happened to you that you keep pushing lighting and magnification? Did you have an electrologist that used you as a dart board with their eyes closed in a dark room? Sorry not to make a joke, but most electrologist I have ever seen… and thats been alot, most always use a lighted magnifier lamp with a 3 diopter lens, or a dental light with magni-focuser(or equivelent). Very few people could/or would use the naked eye… it would be to eye-straining.

19

Dermarzob:

Silhout-Tone is not Instatron. They are two different companies. Microflash is not exclusive to Apilus/Dectro. Have you been to any continuing education classes or have you done any type of at home continuing education over the last thirty years? Have you done any networking with other electrologists?

Have you personally treated clients with, let’s say,… an Apilus Platinum or a SX-500 or a Silhout-Tone VMC for at least a year??? If you haven’t used any of these products, which are just a FEW examples of newer generation computerized epilators available today, then what you say about trademarks, Christmas tree lights and “just bells and whistles” makes me think your skeptitism is all about fear to progress to newer technology.

This is the kind of language that clings to what worked for you in the past without any hint that maybe, just maybe, epilators, even computerized ones, have been improved and advanced so well over the last thirty years that the poor client may actually now experience treatments that have the advantage of less skin reaction, more comfort, fastest time to completion and thus less money spent. What novel ideas to deliver such wonderful permanent hair removal to hairy consumers? At rates of $80 per hour, I think clients deserve electrologists that can deliver all those things with surgical loupes, as oppossed to Sam’s Club reading glasses, so they can see all hair structures. Also, for $80 an hour, the consumer should expect that the practitioner is using a superb epilator that allows one to speed through those “hair neighborhoods” to get a clearance asap.

Before you lay out your trademark argument with all your math charts, why don’t you just purchase one of these fabulous epilators, get training, use it for a minimum of one year and then come back and tell us what you think. Otherwise, your statements hold no real value and the profession of electrology will continue to be dragged down by those that think that technology of the past is better than the technology of the present. Consumers are the real losers when electrologists don’t move forward with proven, newer technology that really works well.

Your last paragraph shows you fear the new.

20

I also have what I think are little scars. They are little white bumps. The hair follicles turn whitish.