Hey everyone, I just wanted to get some opinions from the folks here at hairtell. I have spent a large part of the last year of my life here on the forums and “in secret” with my own hair problems. I have had electrolysis done but received a poor treatment. for the time being my plans to continue are on hold until I can get financially stable in funding my journey.(which is unfortunate because I feel that the possibility to enjoy my youth is passing me by) I have contacted several people locally and raised my concern for the areas I want treated. (I’m male and want to treat large areas such as back, shoulders, neck, upper arms) I have heard every excuse in the world now. Ive been told by people who claim to have been in the business for 10-20-30+ years that, “they only work on women”, “only do small areas”, “only do 1 hour at a time”, “that my areas will take 5-10 years or a full lifetime to treat”, “I should get laser” “hairs can’t be killed in one zap, they have to be treated multiple times to be broken down”. etc… etc… etc… I even had a in depth conversation with my Personal physician who told me that “if I were to do electrolysis on such large areas that it could kill me” my point is, I come here and see evidence of the contrary and it makes it extremely difficult to know what to trust. Why such widespread views in the field of electrolysis and it’s abilities? what “magic” abilities do you few here on hairtell possess that these professionals Ive spoken with locally do not?
3 things: ethics, intelligence and business sense.
I myself am shocked at the professional standards of most electrologists that I’ve encountered in my own hair removal journey.
I guess if you approach hair removal from a aesthetic/beauty standpoint it attracts a certain type of person to the field. If you approach it from a medical perspective you will encounter a completely different level of professionalism. That has been my experience anyway.
Where I live the standards to become an electrologist are extremely low, to the point where it’s not even worth the money to attend any of the training programs. So I’m guessing the people who attend don’t see it as their main career, rather as a secondary income.
The lack of business sense for most electrologists (again, speaking of my area only) contributes greatly to what I guess must be a pretty low income, which of course leads to ethically questionable behaviour. (ie. not treating hair properly so you will achieve permananence, and then explaining away shoddy workmanship as characteristic of electrolysis)
As for the doctor who said it could kill you, lol, it just goes to show you that education doesn’t make you intelligent. I find doctors rarely look outside their own field of expertise so he/she probably doesn’t really understand the basic physics of the procedure.
There really isn’t an answer to your question although it is a good one. Although I do find that it’s the same with most services - a few people do something exceedingly well and the rest are average at best - so it is not just the electrolysis profession that is guilty.
Hello tr3y,
Every field has its masters and also those who are not highly skilled.
If you were to indicate the city in which you are located, we might be able to refer you to one of the more adept technicians. We all have horror stories of the lawyers and physicians and painters and gardeners and accountants and dentists and on and on and on. Do you ever discuss your hair situation with your friends or family and then perhaps get a referral?
Very well said. This is actually the reality in many places.
I’ve often wondered why something as effective as electrolysis still struggles to gain footing nearly 150 years later and now I’m pretty sure those are the main reasons.
In addition to the fact that electrolysis is very expensive and often it really hurts. So if a person won’t see much improvement within the first clearance or two (or even worst: they see scars) then you can’t really blame them for giving up on this.
I’m in Wilmington North Carolina. I understand that electrolysis practitioners come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and skill set. Just as professionals in any field. It just amazes me that people who’ve been in the field for years, can remain so un-current in their selected profession’s progressions and abilities. If something can be proven then shouldn’t there be a general understanding of the facts. The answers I get about my concerns of electrolysis seem to all be opinionated. And often times contradicting.
No kidding!
Consider that there is no national curriculum and that all schools are proprietary and aligned with a manufacturer (they get a “cut” when they sell a machine). Add in that many States have no requirements at all, and you can see where “opinion over fact” reigns supreme. Schools do not share materials and guard their “supremacy” with the tenacity of a bulldog.
Folks have tried for years to establish “Standards of Practice” but I’m convinced it will never happen … never! If there are no objective standards, what else can the electrologist base her decision on: yeah, opinion from her direct experience. There is nothing else.
As has been often said here endlessly: “test patch, test patch” … before you make a big decision and waste thousands of dollars. Ask for a money-back guarantee. And, why not it’s supposed to be permanent, right?
You must understand the culture of the industry to know why electrologists are the way they are. Historically electrology has always been a highly competitive and insular profession, ripe with jealousy, paranoia “cat-fights” and territorialism. Many factors have contributed to this internal “cancer” within the industry. It is not unusual for electrologists (including others within the industry) to turn on each other (even over vast distances) and wage all out “war” by filing false acusations with regulatory agencies as well as spreading vicious rumors in an attempt to destroy another person’s business. The reason information about electrolysis seems opinionated and contradictory is because most electrologists hate each other. No one cooperates or shares information. It’s that simple.
Tr3y,
Columbus has an unemployment rate of 6.2% [Source: Department of Labor Statistics]. If you can live and get a job here for about a year and a half, I can handle your back, arms and shoulder hair. It won’t be super easy in those first hours and months, but you will steadily get there - no excuses - if you put in the time up front.
There are a few electrologists that are my buddies in my locale. We help each other in good spirit and friendship. With that point made, I dont think electrologists are a friendly bunch in general. Maybe it is because we all have aches and pains from the work we do.
Dee, I wish it were that easy to just pick up and move. But I (fortunately) just landed a great job here in Wilmington. So I’m hoping to start treatment soon as I am able to set aside a little money now. however my only options are gonna be to travel and do marathons. I just hope to be able to work out some sort of treatment schedule that does not interfere too much with my new job. we will see what obstacles present themselves soon. I will PM you about my plans in the near future. I guess my purpose for this thread was just to “vent” about how many variables come into play when trying to make plans for treatment. While I am EXTREMELY appreciative of yours and others here professionalism and UN-biased knowledge. I hate the fact that I’m going to have to travel a good distance just to receive competent work. when there are over 10 electrolysis within 50 miles of me. All the same, I remind myself everyday that my hair problems are TEMPORARY and there is a cure!!! while there are those suffering from illness and conditions that have no cure and offer no hope. and for that I am thankful!!!
If Charlotte is within reason - contact Margret Wingate.
Charlotte is about a 4 1/2 hour drive, and I have spoken with Margret, in fact I hope to do some treatments with her after doing a few full clearances through marathon sessions. If I could go to Dee,James,or Mike for a few times up front, I hope that things will be more manageable to be able to drive to Charlotte for a day and do my clean ups. but this would be in a perfect world.
Tr3y, Invite all of the electrologists, you have been to thus far, to this website. I and the regular crew here will be happy to troubleshoot your situational problems. Providing photos is helpful.
There are many electrologists who welcome working in cooperation with each other instead of in competition. I welcome the cooperation.
How “bad” can it get?
About 15 years ago I had an episode that illustrates some point that eludes me. A fellow electrologist, Nancy Van Tassel, practiced here and I often “helped her out.” I showed her different techniques, helped with difficult patients and even gave her materials when she ran short (e.g., needles). I considered her a friend.
One day, a patients said, “Mike I’m uncomfortable having work by you because Nancy said you have AIDS!” When I questioned them, a few more patients said the same. To corroborate the story, I made a phone call to Jim Paisner (Ballet Needles) who had also befriended Nancy. Reluctantly, he told me Nancy had told him too: that I had AIDS. (Amazingly, I had set up the meeting for the two.)
My attorney’s first comment was, “Does she own a house. Because you will be getting everything!” However, my intentions were to simply stop the rumor and move on (I don’t like being in court). So, I had an HIV test that came back negative (no AIDS), and then sent legal papers to Nancy.
Amazingly, she called me and said, “How can you be doing this to me!”
We simply wanted two things: 1) she pays for my attorney ($750), and 2) She writes a letter to all the people she told her “story” to. We collected the letters and mailed them ourselves to be sure everyone got the letter. The letter said her claims were done “purposely to ruin my reputation” and that her statement was totally false.
I was sickened when I discovered that she had prepared 350 letters! Indeed, she had told 350 people that I had AIDS and WAS purposely out to destroy my reputation. I suppose this is a bad as it gets?
However, in talking with Lorenzo, he also had his “bashing!” Indeed, Larry got kicked out of an electrology group because he dared to be using lasers. Soon after the rumor surfaced that he was a “cross-dresser.” He’s not, (but that also would not matter to me anyway).
Indeed, this kind of shit does happen and is one reason this profession is often stuck in a quagmire. Men in the profession are often targets for very horrible rumors. We all have our stories. This is also the ONLY reason I never speak before any convention any more. Being in the “spotlight” causes the idle minds to invent rumors.
Oh yes, the above story is only ONE of many!
Hi Mike. It can get very bad. It can also be very good.
Think of all of the wonderful experiences you
have had collaborating with other’s in the field.
As in all walks of life, there are all sorts of people.
I always have my antennas up.
Arlene, you are absolutely right! Some of my best friends are electrologists! But the bad ones REALLY are a turn off. Remember, words DO hurt … actually, more than a punch in the nose!
The most interesting “rumor thing” is one I only recently discovered. Maybe it’s the “reverse rumor?” It goes like this …
A “semi-trusted friend” says, “I have something to tell you, but you must not divulge my name.” You agree. Then the person says that, “So-and-so said the following about you!” Okay, maybe the story is just made up.
However, that person has just ruined a relationship, put a big doubt out there, but still managed to keep herself/himself out of the equation. This “thing” happened to me a while ago. It’s an interesting variation on an old theme of “bad rumors.”
Mike, I went through the exact same situation over twenty years ago. One of my competitors began circulating rumors that I had AIDS. She also harrassed my parents and friends causing much grief. The electrologist in question is now incapacitated with dementia (shit happens). When I moved out of town, she told my clients I had died including a vivid description of how my parents screamed and thrashed on the floor at my funeral. I was also “attacked” by an electrologist in Pensacola, Florida (guess who?). I am not aware of the current situation, but for many years dogs ran wild in her office and slept under the treatment table. It is true that male electrologists are treated terribly in this profession. Mike’s reason for not speaking at conventions is the same reason I refuse to attend them. Electrology is a female dominated profession and male electrologists are treated like “invaders.”
ha ha, I remember Art Hinkel’s advice to me:
“Bono, just sit quietly and shut up! The women will ‘go after you’ if you don’t! Remember: you cannot fight the ladies!”
Not sure I believe this, and of course I NEVER shut up!
I disagree with this statement. As a rule, men who choose professions which are more frequented by women typically enjoy higher status even before they have earned that right. Cooks, barbers, tailors, nurses … the electrologists, too. Perhaps because of his competitive spirit, or perhaps because of his ability to innovate, most of what they have brought something new to the profession have been men.
In exchange for a woman to excel in this field, you must show the same guts, endurance, speed and aggression of a man, but also it is required gentleness, kindness, and care typically attributed to women.
When I communicate with a colleague, I would not stop to think whether it is an electrologist man or woman, what really interests me is how he or she uses his/her gray matter.
I suppose it all depends on which “gender” you are. We experience these matters from our own special perspective? I DO agree with Jossie that there are differences. Too often, men in the profession WANT to be movie stars, whereas the women are happy to be comforting therapists. Men have BIG fat egos! (Well, a lot of them.)
My favorite book on this subject is “The Goddess versus the Alphabet.” Indeed, not very appreciative of the male “point of view,” but a very interesting read … a major work.
Basic premise is that all religions, before being written down, were female centered: Mother/Fertile-Earth Goddess. Once the alphabet was developed, religions were written down and became male-centered codes with male Gods: law and punishment oriented; not open and nurturing (also anti-sexual, which I find interesting).
Once religions became Holy Books, women also lost freedom and equality with men. There is a lot to this text and I recommend it to anyone who enjoys such works. It’s all about the alphabet itself! And, I think we NEED female priests! (Funny, in all the jobs I’ve ever had, I preferred a female boss!)
So far the only decent electrolysist i have had the pleasure of seeing was male. His work was superb . If i lived closer I would be thrilled to be in his capable hands!