Proper Epilations and other good deeds.

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

One of the things that we need to know as an electrologist is not only what a good epilation feels like, but what a good epilation looks like. One thing that James has frequently stated, and can not be over-stressed, is the need for both good lighting and good magnification. Looking at the hairs as they are epilated will tell an electrologist how well their treatment is working. In the photo below is a properly epilated hair:

[image]http://home.earthlink.net/~johnetbarb/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/good_epilation.jpg[/image]

As can be seen, even though the lighting leaves a little to be desired, is that the hair came out smoothly, with no discernable drag or tweezing. The hair also came out with a full, wet, gelatinous hair bulb and the inner root sheath intact. This was an anagen hair of medium depth from a male chest. This is one hair that will not be back.

For the DIY’s: If you are feeling tweezing and the hair roots are completely covered in a transparant sheath, the hair has been tweezed, not treated. If however, if the hair shaft fades to nearly transparant, and you get a dried-up ball of collagen at the very tip of the shaft, you have just epilated a telogen hair that was on it’s way out anyway. If you are leaving the inner sheath and bulb as skin surface, you might want to drink some more water, use the next larger probe, or be very careful to epilate the hair along the axis of the hair shaft.

Hope this helps,
Joanie <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif” alt=“” />

2

Joanie, how do you gauge whether the electrologist is using the right size (thickness) probe on you, and should the same probe be used on both the coarse and finer hair in an area?

3

Hi,

There really isn’t too much the client can do to gage whether or not the electrologist is using the right diameter probe during treatment, however, using too large of a probe in some areas, mid-brow for instance, will produce small, purplish to red spots around the treated follicles. These are small bruises caused by over-extending the pores. Also using too large of a probe will make insertions more difficult and slow down the process. This may be about the only way that a client can tell.

Generally speaking, follicles will accommodate probes the same size as the diameter of the hair shaft without any problem. Once in a while, I do get a client with extremely tight pores. In this case I will use a slightly smaller probe diameter. (i.e. a .004" instead of a .005" but not much smaller) as it does aid in easier insertions. However, I have to be very careful not to leave the inner root sheath and root bulb behind during epilation. This can cause problems during the healing phase.

Generally speaking, it is safer to go smaller on a probe diameter than it is to go larger. This is often the case where an electrologist will be working a clients eyebrows. If the client has been tweezing for a long period of time, it is not uncommon to be using a .005" or .006" probe for the brows themselves. As I can usually clear the brows on the average client in well under 15 min., it is often a temptation to go after a couple of .002" hairs in the mid-brow with same probe. This is a temptation that I resist. I will switch to the .002" probe and then proceed. This area is just to sensitive to damage.

I hope this helps.
Joanie

4

Thanks Joanie, it certainly does help. So generally speaking, my electro should be changing probes if there is a significant difference in hair thickness but I am pretty sure this is uncommon. I have to leave this determination to the electrologist and should only worry if I see bruising that might indicate wrong size probe.

5

update and about technique -

I had a treatment yesterday and asked the electrologist to show me the hair she is removing, it was a perfect removal, had the sheath and the small black bulb at the end. I also saw all the removed hairs at the end of the treatment, it was a quick glance, but I saw a lot of them similar to this one but they were on a cotton ball so I couldn’t see if they had a sheath.
The treatment was much more painful than the last time at the same current and I am still sore the next day, my chin is swollen on one side, the dots are ‘brownish gray’??, bigger than last time and will surely scab.
She uses a UC-1 Henkel machine, and used no. 3 probe on me.

Anyway, I asked her about the dimpling inward clue that you described Joanie and that’s the point to stop insertion and start current, and here’s how she described her technique –

  • she starts current as soon as inserts, according to her, this opens up the follicle for a much better insertion.

She starts to very lightly tweeze right away too, which according to her helps to straighten out a curved follicle. she did say that in training they said this was a no-no but after 20 yrs of doing treatments she has learned that it really helps with curved follicles. all the hair I saw was straight so I think this is unnecessary in my case.

and also does ‘after-count’ which is keeping the probe in the follicle for a little bit after removal of hair so the lye can come up and get All the follicle cells all the way to the top of the follicle including the bulge.

So here is my conclusion, her technique may be very effective in removing hair but is ‘VERY’ harsh on my skin, sounds like for any skin really. I am not going back to her, although personally, I think she is a dear, sweet woman.

Experts, can you comment on each aspect of this technique, what is the right way to do it?
Thanks!!

6

All I am going to say about this is what she is doing will permanently remove your hair… and there are other ways to get effective treatment that would be less harsh on your skin. I will now reinsert my ball gag.

7

James, now you have me all curious…so you agree that the technique she is using is effective, it did seem like it to me too…but it really is very hard on my skin…I have these water logged looking pustules today around some of the follicles…scary…
so don’t stop there, do tell how you would vary that technique for optimizing better skin reaction with effectiveness, considering what I am experiencing? I cam pm you if you prefer…but I think it will help other darker skin folks (I am type 4) who have sensitive skin. Please…:slight_smile:

oh, I forgot to mention that she used 1.5x magnification, she said it was quite enough! and she does not like the new computerized machines (I know I will get dfahey all riled up when she reads this!) her reason is you can never customize setting for one person even from treatment to treatment you have to vary it…that sounds right but I am pretty sure you can easily choose a different setting on the Apiluses, I think she is just uncomfortable trying anything new and doesn’t see any reason to invest…I can empathize, but it is one more reason I should be going to someone different…

8

So this is the epilator being used on you,hert? Found this post from last month. Comparing it to being better than a one touch or liquid electrolysis is not much of a comparison. You’ll have to find this post so you can see the picture for yourself. The post is as follows:

07/18/06 08:48 PM

Re: Legitamate Electrolysis Machines Available

Don’t laugh at this machine. It may look like a cross between a 1950’s Norge refrigerator, an Edsel, and the RKO Radio City Music Hall, but it’ll work vastly better than all the One Touch’s, AAvexx’s, ePen’s, and Liquid Electrolysis products combined. I hope it finds a good home.

Hinkle UC-1

Without reading backwards, have you tried other electrologists yet to compare equipment and technique?

Dee

Just read your post above and I’ll add this: 1.5 magnification? Old epilator? Pizza face skin reaction?

The clues are getting better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

9

I just can’t hold myself back!! This is information from Hairfacts. This UC-1 is not even listed just to show you how old it probably is! Could this UC-1 unit be from 1948??? <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif” alt=“” /> There is contact information listed if you are curious, hert. God bless your lady, I know she must be kind and good, but really if she wasn’t leaving your face a holy mess then all would be fine. Problem is, not all is well for your post treatment healing.

From hairfacts:

"A.R. Hinkel Co.
In 1948, the developer of Blend electrolysis co-founded the company that would later bear his name.

Contact information

Address: 18121-C Parthenia Street Northridge, CA 91325
Phone: 818-775-2942 (orders) 800-982-1600
Fax: 818-775-2941
website: http://www.arhinkel.com/
email: [email protected]
Available devices

Epilator name FDA 510(k) Cleared G B T FT MNG
Electro-Blend Classic * * X X X
Electro Blend UC-2 * * X X X
Electro Blend UC-3+ K904015 10/04/90 X X X X

  • available prior to 1976 – did not need to file with FDA

Key to features:

G = Galvanic
B = Blend
T = Thermolysis
FT = Flash Thermolysis
MNG = Multiple-Needle Galvanic
Notes

Founder Arthur Hinkel co-authored the classic text Electrolysis, Thermolysis and the Blend (Arthur Hinkel and Richard Lind, Arroway Publishers, Los Angeles, 1968, ISBN 0-9600284-1-2)"

10

Okay, I’m back. I only focused on the equipment. That doesn’t mean I don’t have issues with the technique used, but James, Joanie, Arlene, Lisa, Barbara can offer whatever they want on that one.

Dee

11

dfahey, can you clarify what you mean by this -

Problem is, not all is well for your post treatment healing.

do you mean that I obviously had a very bad treatment or do you mean that considering the current condition of the skin, it’s not going to heal with time?

Also, I see that the UC2 is listed on the website, my regular electro uses that, is that also a no-good machine? I also scab with her but the treatments are a lot more comfortable.

And to answer another question, this is the 5th electrologist I have seen. She was backing up my regular lady while she was on vacation. My opinion is that it is easy to decide if you have a bad treatment like this last one…but it’s hard to decide between a good and a better electrologist in just one treatment. I guess I should go back to Wendy…if I hadn’t scabbed with her, it would have been very easy to decide to continue with her.

what a mess… <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif” alt=“” />

12

I would love to see electrology clients invite their practitioners to this forum so that they could participate.

13

The machines are not “bad”. What ever machine one is using, one still has to use the best technique to treat the person one has before them. The more skill one has, the better one’s equipment available, the more treatment options one has available.

If she could see what she was doing, she would not have to be practicing “Live Probing” in order to get into your follicles, thus causing unneeded scabs. She is not evil, she may not even know what I am talking about.

There, I said it.

Public Stoning will follow.

14

Am I understanding, hert, that you are concerned about your healing? You have had treatment with five electrologists and scabbing has always occurred? Yes? No? Could you repeat your concerns again, please?

Your skin will heal with time, but my point is, maybe the healing part doesn’t have to be noticable or worrisome. If you do your part with good aftercare and your electrologist does her part to perform skillfully then you will proceed nicely. I have asserted myself frequently and unabashedly on this site and other sites that good equipment makes the process all the more easier and tolerable for the skin. 1.5 X magnification for fine hairs? I’m dubious.

Please invite your practitioner’s to participate at Arlene’s suggestion. All opinions are welcome here. It may get rough and rocky, but all opinions are welcomed even if there is not agreement. I would encourage you to work with your local choices and communicate your concerns with them. Your gut instincts will have to guide you as far as what works out best for you.

Okay, onto the scab thing again. People can get scabs. Scabs are not scars. The scabs will slough off and go away. Do not distrub them. If scabs are too big and connected and this happens every time you get treated, then scarring could become a reality. This was already discussed a couple days ago, I believe. If you want less scabbing, then you would be wise to develop a good relationship with Wendy or whoever, and ask them to try to do something different to keep the scabbing to a minimum. I encourage my clients to talk to me,too, if they think they are having any undesirable healing problems so we can work on it together. It may be a different probe choice or probe size. We may need to use a different modality or a different energy and timing plan. So many things can be tried to keep your face from scabbing.

A practitioner that can see very well, insert a probe into a follicle accurately and be concerned about evaluating the healing outcome from feedback derived from you the consumer, will make you very happy. And, yes, I’ll take the ball out of my mouth to proudly say that a newer computerized epilator can makes the process and outcome all the better. I’ve been on both sides of performing electrolysis with 30 year old equipment and modern equipment and I like the ammenities of the computerized offerings best. Just my personal observations and opinion electrolysis colleagues!

Love,

Dee

15

Hert9, I’m interested in what you are posting about because we may have seen the same electrologists. At this point I have recieved treatment from various electrologists around San Diego, and what you are saying rings a bell. I have total respect for all the ladies i have visited so i really don’t want to name names or make any implications about my opinions, but I wonder if I once saw that same electrologist. Private message me the name if you wish.

I have to say, with all my experiences, my own knowledge and work, and from what I have heard from other electrologists and clients, that Wendy at New Image is the very, very best. Didn’t you go to her earlier? Did you return?

Wendy’s work was some of the most even, non-reddening, best flashwork I have ever witnessed. She is way worth a Los Angeles to San Diego trip for a treatment. Problem now is that her schedule is getting way, way tight to get into. I’m in the process of trying to become a regular of hers, and I’m taking her timeslot scraps. I’m considering laying a basket of fruit at her feet and washing her car for free. I’m more than honored to let her use my binocular loupes as she decides whether to purchase a pair or not. Her Apilus Senior should be put in the Electrology Hall of Fame …And to think we use the same type needles with simular delivery program sequences …I’m not worthy! I’m not worthy! And James, she knows Bono too, maybe you should give her a call, she likes to chat.

Mantaray

16

Hi Hert9,

I’m sorry I’ve had a busy day here as it looks like you have stumbled into a real can of worms with your electrologist.

One thing that I will amplify on is James’ statement that your electrologists’ treatment will remove your hair. This it will definately do, but how much skin damage do you want to contend with?

One of the reasons that pulling on hairs, prior to epilation is discouraged is that it distorts the moisture gradient, pulling moist layers closer to the surface. When the energy is released into the follicle, the heat will reach the surface quicker, resulting in more damage in the outer layers of the skin. It will also result in somewhat premature extraction of the hairs. This makes the permanency of the hair removal somewhat questionable in my humble opinion.

One thing about looking at epilated hairs without magnification is that it is difficult, unless one has extremely good eyes with a very short focal length, to see if the outer root sheath is over the bulb. Depending on the thickness of the sheath, which varies from individual to individual, it may be covering the bulb which will still appear dark as it is pigmented and the sheath is not.

One other aspect that I saw a lot of examples of in school, and very few of since is this. If an operator does not have the ability to see whether or not the insertions are good, they will frequently increase the power until the hairs do come out freely. This does do a good job of destroying regenerative tissues in the follicle, along with any other tissues in the surrounding derma as well. This may create excessive redness, scabbing, destruction of collagen, pitting and a host of other potential problems.

The long and short of the matter is this. You should strongly consider having a few other consultations and sample treatments with other operators in your area. What I’m reading from you is giving me nightmares. No one should walk out from a treatment with what you are describing! I know, I’ve been there and done that. I have very sensitive skin myself, which has become even more sensitive since I started HRT. I turn a nice beet red during treatment, with quite a bit of swelling, but it does go away in a couple of hours - as long as the area has not been over-worked. I do not need to repeat the experiences and I hate to think of others going through what I’ve put up with in the past!

James…Please pass the ball gag. Now it’s my turn!

Joanie <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif” alt=“” />

  • she starts current as soon as inserts, according to her, this opens up the follicle for a much better insertion.

I missed replying to this bit of info last night as my eyes were not too well focused by the time I got home. All I can say in response is “Scream and Scream Again”! That’s gotta hurt! I’m certain that your lady has good intentions, but there is an old saying in that regard; “The roadway to Hell is littered with good intentions.” I would run, not walk, to another practitioner. (After the current damage heals!) The Marque De Sade might be a better alternative. JH <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif” alt=“” />:(

17

dfahey - the reaction is the worst I have had in three months of treatments, yes I was worried about my prognosis for healing, but I understand from all the posts, yours and other threads, that it should heal ok. So I will practice good aftercare and hope for the best. I will likely have to give it atleast two weeks of break on the chin instead of the week. If the scabs look like they haven’t healed even then, I will delay further. God knows how I will handle the hair that will crop up, am just really depressed.

I have had tests with three electrologists before deciding on the one that I usually go to. I did not scab on the tests but they epilated like 3-4 hairs so it was too small a sample.
The lady that I go to, does blend, has a UC-2 machine, I have scabbed every single time, other than reducing the current on the first visit after seeing how my skin was reacting, she hasn’t verbalized if she has tried something different.

This lady went on a month vacation, I tried 1 treatment with Wendy, she did microflash on the Apilus senior and had to keep it on a low setting for me, she said my skin reaction was just perfect, I still scabbed, although smaller size scabs for sure, the treatment also had more of an edge than blend.

My usual lady had also given me a back up contact, so I decided to try her too, had 2 treatments with her. She is the one who uses the UC-1. First treatment was more painful than I was used to, I scabbed, she said to expect it anyway. I went back again two days ago and you know the rest.

So, I have always scabbed, degrees have varied. I have to say I found the UC-2 blend more comfortable than the Apilus, because Apilus was a series of sharp hot pricks versus a deeper but more spread out pain.

Joanie H, the pain with this last horror treatment was really very bad, I told her on the first couple insertions and she said current was the same as last time, and it could be any number of things going on with my body. She didn’t reset anything.

Mantaray, can you pm me the name of the lady that you went to, I can tell you if she is the same. I really want to go back to Wendy but it’s very hard logistically, she is very busy and it’s hard to get a slot, add to that that I work full time and have two kids and getting my hubbie to babysit them for an hour longer (that’s what the roundtrip drive would be) each week is an uphill battle.

Arlene, I have mentioned this forum to every single electrologist I went to, only Wendy was interested enough to ask for the url and hopefully she is atleast reading and will post at some time.

My usual electrolgist come back next week, I will take everyone’s suggestion and be more serious about asking her to do things to reduce the scabbing, my fear is that if she reduces settings, this will make the treatments less effective so I have been not been assertive about her changing what she is doing. But I realize, she can do other things than reduce the current. If she works with me great, else, I will have to beg Wendy to fit me and bribe my husband someway.

A heartfelt thank you to each one of you for all the great information, and input you have provided. I appreciate it very much indeed and I will be depending on it all along this complicated journey.

18

Hi hert9,

The Apilus Sr., like all other epilators, requires that a treatment be tailored to fit an individual’s tolerance level as well as the amount of power and modality appropriate for proper removal of hair. There are also 2 distinct variations available for the Senior II. The first is the basic machine, which is a good machine. However, the addition of the IMM*PAC upgrade gives the operator a much larger bag of tricks as far as being able to deliver a good treatment with minimum discomfort. Several features, like the ability to set the timing between pulses, is not a part of the basic machine’s abilities.

I also am very sensitive on the upper lip, but I will find myself sitting through a lot of discomfort in order to obtain the results I need.

However, there are several considerations in maintaining the comfort level for the client. Besides using a modality that gives the highest degree of comfort, the need to keep the sensation as deep into the skin as possible, eliminating or minimizing the effect on the local nerves.

I have found out that taking the treatment from 2 to 3 pulses, with a longer spacing between the pulses will frequently make the level of sensation much lower. Additionally, the use of a probe like the ProTec insulated thermolysis probe can be very helpful in this regard. It has a much shorter length of uninsulated probe, tending to keep the energy deeper into the skin. The longer spacing allows for both heat reduction between the pulses and adds to synapse fatigue. I also try to get the total amount of power used for epilation at the absolute minimum to achieve permanent hair removal and proper epilations.

Again, one of the things I frequently need to consider when establishing a treatment for someone is am I making the best possible insertions prior to applying the power. With a new client, it sometimes takes a while to make the best choices on what type of treatment is appropriate for their combination of skin and hair types. Everyone reacts differently and has different tolerance levels.

Anyway, there has been some very good advice tendered in this string. I think the most important is to make sure that your electrologist uses very good magnification and adequate lighting. If they can’t see what they are doing, there’s no telling how good of insertions they are making.

All the best,
Joanne

19

Joanie, that is great info, I will find out which kind of Senior II she has. Btw, when she treated me, for each hair she gave me between 3 to 5 blips. Does more blips mean that automatically the interval between the zaps would have to be longer?
I really think that longer time between pulses will greatly enhance my personal ability to handle the short hot zaps. It may mean however that overall less hair is zapped in the 30 min I usually spend, but it may be worth it.
I agree that this is a very useful thread, thanks again for the great info.

update on my skin - the scabs are a nice dark brown now and I would say close to half have even fallen off 6 days after treatment. looks like these will heal ok - what a relief. i can clearly see some hyperpigmentation though, should also fade with time…

20

Thought I should post an update, my scabs had mostly healed so I went for my weekly treatment, had a bunch of fine short dark hairs show up on my chin so couldn’t wait till 2 weeks. My usual lady is back from vacation. I told her the story and requested a low current, she adjusted it and here are the settings
Hinkel UC-2 machine
13/14 computer units on the electrolysis side
1 and 5/8 milliamp on the thermolysis side which equals 3 units of lye.

Happy to say that I did not scab except for maybe 15 - 18 dots total, which are also v.small in size like tiny dots that you can only see from up real close.

So what I wanted to ask was - what do you think of the settings, I had this treatment at this low setting because my skin had sufffered a lot last week, but if I continue at these settings because its a lot better for scabbing, how much am I extending my treatment time by? Or will it not be effective at all, just like a removal session with no long term results?

What should be the minimum settings for sensitive type 4 skin on this machine to get some decent results? I know the machine is way old but as you can tell, I like this lady and would like to continue with her if possible.