Probes 101

I know, it’s sad, but I need advice on buying needles. Since the person who sold me the Servo-Blend won’t help out (cause I’m not a pro), I thought you fine board people will help.

Basics first, I’m not sure if mine is a one-piece or a two. There’s a white cap that screws on the top and a copper colored top inside with a hole for the needle. I’m thinking it’s a one-piece but I’m not sure (what’s the difference between one and two pieces anyway?).

Also, should I get disposable or non-disposable? I’m thinking that since I’m only using it on myself I should get non-disposable so as to save money. Also, is it worth getting gold-coating? I heard it’s better for your skin.

In two-piece needles, a barrel is permanently crimped to a sharpened piece of wire. This yields a shaft that’s large enough for the needle holder to clamp to.

In the one-piece, the section inserted in the clamp and the needle are formed from one continuous piece of metal.

Contact Prestige Electrolysis or Texas Electrolysis Supply for needles to fit your needle holder.

You can also replace the needle holder for about $25, if yours is not compatible with the most common shank sizes.

One note: When I was first getting set up, I bought all kinds of different needles. Now that I’m more experienced, I use the same large size needle for nearly everything. Smaller needles seem like they ought to be easier to insert, but I find they are harder because they catch on the walls of the follicle too easily. The follicle walls easily stretch to accommodate a larger needle.

You have a very good point, the larger ones are easier for the unskilled to use. I suggest sizes 3 to 6. One should also consider getting the Ballet Gold probes, since you will be using galvanic, and will need the extra comfort they bring to treatment.

I’m thinking it’s a one-piece but I’m not sure (what’s the difference between one and two pieces anyway?).

Good question. In all my readings, I still have not found an explanation of the two piece needles. But I’ve noticed that the one peace are more expensive when compared to the same brand two piece needles, but I am not sure what to infer from that fact. Does it mean that they are NOT as good, or is it simply a marketing decision to introduce this relatively new technology in the market? I don’t know, the pro will tell us.

The companies that make probes claim that two piece needles are more sensitive and it’s easier and safer to feel the bottom of the follicles with them. But Ballet (who does not make two piece probes) claims that they are more difficult to insert.

Smaller needles seem like they ought to be easier to insert, but I find they are harder because they catch on the walls of the follicle too easily.

I have the same problem with some of the needles that I got with the machine I bought. The Ballet and some other non identifiably packaged brand are so sharp it seems that they easy pierce the skin pretty much anywhere i try to insert them, which is obviously not good.

Can someone please explain that difference? Are the Ballet probes all that sharp? I would like to purchase and try the rounded tip needles but Prestige does not sell any. Does anyone here have them, and have you used them?? Do you like them? I think i would like them, I don’t know.

Still, you guys don’t mention what you think is better, one or two piece, or what the difference in using one or the other would be???

I can’t find an image of what I think a one piece probe is. I really wanted to ask if that is a one piece probe or a tapered probe.

My stylus looks like this:

[image]http://www.texaselectrolysissupply.com/product-images/nc13aa.jpg[/image]

It’s size F. Does this change anything to the type of needle that I have to buy for it? I already ordered both one piece and two piece needles from Prestige b/c I though i should try both. Is one of them not going to even fit in my stylus?

thanks.

And here is an article about the needle size and uses:
Why Use different diameter electrolysis needle

I have the same problem with some of the needles that I got with the machine I bought. The Ballet and some other non identifiably packaged brand are so sharp it seems that they easy pierce the skin pretty much anywhere i try to insert them, which is obviously not good.

Can someone please explain that difference? Are the Ballet probes all that sharp? I would like to purchase and try the rounded tip needles but Prestige does not sell any. Does anyone here have them, and have you used them?? Do you like them? I think i would like them, I don’t know.

I use Ballet needles. I find that even with the smallest I don’t tend to pierce the skin; rather, just that the needle tip catches on the follicle wall if the insertion angle isn’t quite right. To James’s point, as skill improves, it gets easier to get the insertion angle right and adjust the angle quickly when doing the insertion.

The sharpness of the tip may make a difference in how the heat is concentrated. RF comes mostly at the tip because of “point effects” and a sharper tip may result in the RF being more concentrated.

You could try blunting the tip of one of your needles, but you’d need a microscope (40X or so) to inspect the tip.

Uni-Probe makes probes with a pretty blunt tip. I have a whole bunch of them, but they require a special kind of stylus (needle holder). You could test the insertion without a stylus, though. PM me and I’ll mail you some.

Still, you guys don’t mention what you think is better, one or two piece, or what the difference in using one or the other would be???

I can’t find an image of what I think a one piece probe is. I really wanted to ask if that is a one piece probe or a tapered probe.

It’s size F. Does this change anything to the type of needle that I have to buy for it? I already ordered both one piece and two piece needles from Prestige b/c I though i should try both. Is one of them not going to even fit in my stylus?

As long as the needles you ordered are F shank, they’ll fit in the holder just fine.

One piece needles look like a sewing machine needle. Big shank tapering down to the needle.

Tapered needles are different in that the taper is longer and closer to the tip. The intent is that the taper is inserted into the follicle. There’s less RF from the larger diameter tapered portion, so the upper portion of the follicle is protected a little.

Two piece needles are cheaper to manufacture - they’re just wire crimped in a barrel. One piece are more expensive to manufacture. I somehow find one piece easier to use, maybe because they are less visually intrusive.

So UniProbe are pretty blunt, ha! That’s good to know. Maybe if i never get used to the sharper kind I’ll invest in a new UniProbe stylus.

Thank you for the explanation of the tapered vs. one-piece needle. It’s what i figured, but i wanted to make sure that what i though was accurate.

We’ll see. I’ll try different brands of size F needles first since i have two spare holders that came with the machine.

Thanks for the input.

I would really appreciate it if someone can tell us about a company that makes the rounded tip needles i see illustrated in books. Perhaps since the time the textbooks were written, these needles turned out to be useless and became an extinct species and that is why no one makes/sells them anymore???

I still don’t get the difference b/t the one piece and two. But most stylus can take either one, is that correct?

Okay, I’m getting the idea that a one-piece is a metal shaft and a two-piece is a wire shaft (like the OneTouch)?

And the Richards and Mehard book recommends a two-piece.

Determining which probe to use is contingent on many factors one being modality choice as this will determine what will occur in the follicle.

For example: If I decide to administer Blend treatment and I want more galvanic activity at the tip and less thermolysis activity at the tip, my needle choice would be a probe that is more bulbous at the tip. If I wanted more thermolysis activity at the tip, I would want the needle to be thinnest at the tip.

If you remember that you have more glavanic activity in the follicle where the needle is thickest and more thermolysis activity where the needle is thinnest, this will help guide you in making choices.

Good luck.

I still don’t get the difference b/t the one piece and two. But most stylus can take either one, is that correct?

I wish I could find pictures to post so that we can point rather than describe what we are talking about, but there aren’t any on the web <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The shaft is the part of the needle that goes inside the stylus. I comes in size F and K whatever that means. Then there is the whole separate UniProbe system which has its onw stylus and needle design, but we are not talking abou those right now.

I am pretty certain that all one-piece and two-piece needles fit the regular stylus design.

If I decide to administer Blend treatment and I want more galvanic activity and less thermolysis activity, my needle choice would be a bulbous type of probe.

Arlene, do you know any distributor that sells the bulbous kind of needles. Prestige and Texas Supplies do not. Who makes them? Perhaps I can call the manufacturer directly if i can find their info somewhere??

thanks for the post. it was very educational. good points.

I still don’t get the difference b/t the one piece and two. But most stylus can take either one, is that correct?

From a practical point of view, there’s little difference between the two. Don’t worry about it.

The holder grips the shank, which is thick. The needle, which is thin, is inserted in the follicle. How you get from shank to needle is the difference between one piece and two piece.

In the one piece, it’s all one solid piece of metal.

In the two piece, the shank is a hollow tube; in maufacturing, the needle is inserted in the tube, which is then squeezed (crimped) to hold the needle in place.

F and K refer to shank diameters. F is thicker, I think. Because I like to do things the hard way, I use K shank tapered needles, which are hard to find.

From a practical point of view, there’s little difference between the two. Don’t worry about it.

The holder grips the shank, which is thick. The needle, which is thin, is inserted in the follicle. How you get from shank to needle is the difference between one piece and two piece.

In the one piece, it’s all one solid piece of metal.

In the two piece, the shank is a hollow tube; in maufacturing, the needle is inserted in the tube, which is then squeezed (crimped) to hold the needle in place.

F and K refer to shank diameters. F is thicker, I think. Because I like to do things the hard way, I use K shank tapered needles, which are hard to find.

You get the award for “THE perfect explanataion”!!! Congrats <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You really don’t want to use bulbous probes. That is why they are hard to impossible to find. They are not the best option. In my opinion you should stay with a good Ballet Gold probe’s polished and easy insertion needles in a size 5 or 6 if you can see well enough to insert them that big. If not, sizes 3 and 4 are fine.

You really don’t want to use bulbous probes. That is why they are hard to impossible to find. They are not the best option. In my opinion you should stay with a good Ballet Gold probe’s polished and easy insertion needles in a size 5 or 6 if you can see well enough to insert them that big. If not, sizes 3 and 4 are fine.

In response to the above comment:

Ballet gold is a wonderful probe and I love using them and use them most often however sometimes I need to use other needle sizes and other needle types. For those who are interested in optimizing treatment, needle choice is one of those variables that can make a difference in terms of comfort and maximizing treatment efficacy.

There is no one formula. Indicating that using a 5 or 6 ballet gold as a blanket statement is limiting your options and isn’t going to be much help treating those finer upper lip hairs.

There are certain types of probes that are difficult to find and that in no way is an indicator that they are not worthwhile. For example: the copper probe is very hard to find yet it is my favorite to use when I am administering Multiple Needle Galvanic. Copper is a better conductor than stainless steel or gold.

Just because something is hard to find, doesn’t mean it isn’t worthwhile. Some things are very easy to find and are very bad for you. I can get a pack of cigarettes quite easily or even find easy access to junk food. Ah, but if I want to find some organic foods, I need to look around as they are not so easy to find.

I know the distress that comes from unwanted hair. If I were living in a time when permanent hair removal through electrolysis was not an option for me and circus show freaks could be gainfully and legally employed, I would earn my living as a beared lady.

Since electrology education is limited in most parts of the country, I suggest doing lots of reading: Hinkle, Bono, Schuster, Richards and Meharg have written good texts.

I always ask suppliers for needle samples, all types and all sizes. I test them all out as I set up controls changing one variable at a time and I take notes.

Good luck!

For those who are interested in optimizing treatment, needle choice is one of those variables that can make a difference in terms of comfort and maximizing treatment efficacy.

Thanks for the responses and we hope you continue to offer your obviously well educated advice on the details of electrolysis.

However, keep in mind you’re talking to do-it-yourselfers. They have a long way to go before the finer points of needle choice are the determining factor in their treatment efficacy.

Schuster’s video’s offer graphic illustration of why bulbous probes are not a good idea even for professionals. They don’t even do what they were designed to do.

I certainly was not attempting to say that such things as pure wholesome healthy food, and clean water, in very short supply in the Americas, are bad simply because of their lower availability. In the case of bulbous probes, however, since the theory behind them was discredited, they have little demand, and therefore small production runs.

My advise was in fact geared for the home user who will have the best luck with firmer probes that are easy to insert. The ballet Gold probe slides in easier than even Ballet’s stainless probes, and better still over the competition’s probes.

Comfort usually comes with the largest probe that can be inserted in the follicle, and size depends on the vision equipment used. What works best for the home user, is not going to be what all professionals would prefer. Home users need what will work best one handed with a backwards insertion, in a mirror with a magnifying glass without bending. Size 6 probes bend the least, but without good vision equipment,and perhaps an electrolysis buddy Doing Each Other, a six may be too big. It could also be too big for the follicle, especially in the upper lip.

I certainly echo the call to get and read all electrolysis text books and for people to offset the topics they all disagree on. They all disagree on something. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />