Photos of my second thermolysis experience

Hi!
I’ve now taken some photos of the second treatment of my right arm. What do you think? Does it look “right”/normal? Does it look like a reasonable amount of zipped hairs, considering this was a one hour session?
Thanks for any input! Here the pics are: (sorry if some are bad quality, I used two different cameras)
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/julia_allegri/album?.dir=/9a54&.src=ph

/julia

Was all the hair in the before pictures hair that grew back after the first session?

It looks normal to me, but then again I have not yet had electrolisys <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Why did you choose thermolisys?

Cheers

This does appear mormal post treatment immediately after then several hours after from what I can see. The pictures are not as crisp as some I have seen, but I still get the idea that this looks very normal.

Thermolysis is is a good modality to use for a large area. You may have some temporary scabbing for a short time and that is okay. It appears that the work is being scattered in that one hour time, which is good. What was the length of time between your first and second treatments?

I know you will be happy with the results when this is completed. I had my arms treated 30 years ago and they are smooth as the back of one’s wrist. Best money and time I ever invested and yes, it is permanent. My arms have not needed any touch ups for thirty years. It’s gone.

Dee

Thanks for your input Dee! I’m glad to hear that you’ve had such a wonderful experience/outcome yourself! I WISH I’ll have the same luck as you did/do. How long did it take for you to be permanently hair-free in your arms btw? How many treatments did it take (if you remember! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)?
If my pictures would have been a little larger (which is not possible in the yahoo-albums unfortunately)I think you would’ve seen better. Anyways, it sounds great to hear that you think it looks normal. I chose to have the work scattered as I think it is more gentle for the skin than the taking every single hair away in a small area - isn’t the risk of overtreatment greater then also? That’s what I thought anyways, although my electrologist said that the skin would look the same after the healing even though the reaction would be harder from the stripping rather than the thinning.
This was my second thermolysis-treatment, but my first treatment of my right arm. I had my left arm done this last monday, and my right arm (the one on the pictures) done this Friday. My electrologist says that I should wait at least three weeks between the treatments before going back to the same area. She thinks it’s important for the area to heal properly from scabbing and so first, which I think sounds reasonable. Or what do you think? Do you think it’s too much / too little time to wait between thee treatments?
Ya, I also figured out thermolysis must be the best option for large areas, but I would rather choose galvanic for my face.
Thanks again Dee,
/julia

No, it was my first treatment to my right arm. I chose thermolysis rather than galvanic or Blend, partly because it’s a big area to treat and the other options would’ve been too slow I guess, and partly because there’s no one here doing either Blend or Galvanic. I simply have no option, although I think I’d go for thermolysis in any case for my arms. Not for my face though, then I’d choose Galvanic.

It’s been thirty years ago, so the time to completion is a fuzzy thing. If I had to give some answer, I think I would be telling you with all honesty that it probably took about 18 months of consistent work. I had a lot of hair and back then, there was no such thing as microflash or computerization to speed things up. My practitioner used manual thermolysis which translates into 1-2 seconds per hair. So you see, all kinds of variables play a role in how long it takes to complete an area.

I can say that my arm clients are usually slacking away from regular weekly treatments after we reach first clearance. First clearance depends on you and how much hair you have AND how often you come in for those treatments in the very beginning. I go rather aggressively. If the client wants the hair off fast, then they can expect those remaining cleanup treatments to be scattered over the next several months as new growth pops to the surface. My last “arms client” was done and happy after 8 months, but she had just a moderate problem and was looking for thinning of dark coarse hairs only.

The schedule you are on is just fine. I have found if an area is revisited sooner than a week, it hurts more. It is always a good idea to let the skin rest and heal.

Again, all sounds good for you and your practitioner sounds right on.

Dee

Hi Dee!
Thanks again for your input!
I think it also will take at least as long time for me to be totally hair-free in my arms, as you, since my electrologist uses a machine that’s quite old, and it’s also manual and take 1-2 seconds per hair. (But that’s not a bad thing, is it?)

What machine are you yourself using btw? Is that the machine you recommend? I have actually very little understanding in the different machines and their “qualities”.

/Julia

I notice you are from Sweden. Your electrologist seems to be very cautious safe over sorry.

In Europe, there are different regulations. As I understand it the blend is not available. My sister was stationed in England and only thermolysis was available there. I don’t know If the same equiptment is available in Europe due to different regulations.

If the blend is available it is not the best choice for your face unless your hair is deep and terminal.

Hi miskah.

Practitioner skill is more important than the machine used, so you are okay.

I use a Silhouet-Tone VMC. I like the high end computerized equipment for many,many reasons verses the older dial style equipment that can be quirky. Apilus rates very high, too. When I sell my backup epilator, I will probably buy an Apilus. There are other products that rate high, too.

I’m confident you will be patient with your hair removal plan and before you know it, you’ll have nice smooth arms. It will all be worth it.

Dee

Yes, I am from Sweden and you are correct in that there’s no blend or galvanic available here (which SUCKS!). How come that you wouldn’t use blend (or galvanic…?) on my face though unless the hairs were deep and terminal?
still learning
/julia

I don’t do blend on the face unless it is deep because of Scabbing. and I seem to get an excellent, time-saving release using thermolysis. Your American Slang seems just fine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You will be fine without the blend honest.

Have you tried laser for arms? I’ve done it and it was very quick. After the first treatment, the hairs were much lighter and shorter and less noticeable.

I would try that. It’s much faster and I think it’d be less $ in the end.

Laser also works really well for underarms and legs - really quick!

Well don’t run out and tell your electrologist she is using the wrong equiptment and to buy something that doesn’t conform to the local regs and would blow up if you could plug it into your 240 socket. Really Dee they have a whole different power system overthere.

To quote Dr. Schuster in the hands of a skilled practitioner it makes no difference.

From the looks of her photo’s she has a skilled practicioner who is doing a good job and conforming to the local regulations.

It would be really helpful if you would slow down and read a person’s post more carefully before you spout off,learner. The companies that sell the epilator’s mentioned above are sold INTERNATIONALLY, so do you really think they will just blow up if they are used anywhere in countries other than the United States? Get real.

Did I not say that practitioner skill is more important than the machine used? And, in no way did I ever mention that the pictures of her arms were of any concern what so ever. Why don’t you stop making things up?

Hi Dee!
Thanks again for your input!
I think it also will take at least as long time for me to be totally hair-free in my arms, as you, since my electrologist uses a machine that’s quite old, and it’s also manual and take 1-2 seconds per hair. (But that’s not a bad thing, is it?)

What machine are you yourself using btw? Is that the machine you recommend? I have actually very little understanding in the different machines and their “qualities”.

/Julia

So how long does it take per hair for microflash ?

RJC2001

Don’t worry about the epilator. An older machine may have more electronic integrity. A newer one may just be computerized. the 1 to 2 second setting is an operator choice. She may choose to give you less scabbing. I can do the flash with my machine but I don’t . I was trained to go at least 2-3 seconds but I have found there is less surface action and a more quality release at .8 to 1 second depending on the epilator and the indiviual I work on. .2 seconds isn’t that great of difference. If you get results that is the main thing. Electrologists have been successfully removing hair for over one hundred years. New technology simplifies the settings the electrologist uses, decreased the amount of technical knowledge they need and may reduce sensation because of the speed. We all want the latest and greatest but this equiptment costs ThOUSANDS of dollars. We have to justify the investment some one who is successful with old equiptment and is nearing retirement isn’t going to invest thousands but that doesn’t make them ineffective. Some one who works part time or less because they live in a low population area isn’t going to generate enough income to buy expensive equiptment.

I know the integrity of a computer chip. How quickly does your computer become obsolete? I am waiting a generation or two before I reinvest. I took the seminar presented by apilus and I hope to own the machine. However, I have been able to fine tweek, pulse, and apply the principles to my instatron with out investing more then an education. This has improved my success and client satisfaction. They commented on the results, noticed and commented on the change without me saying it. So you can achieve good results with any epilator that meets FDA regulations.

Also I had both my machines tested and measured and can also apply the principle to the subtle difference of the two. How did I do this? There is an electronics lab in my basement. You don’t need to do this to do a good job and be a good electrologyist or to fine tweek and epilator.

Be patient. We are treating One hair at a time. Age and hormonal changes make us hairier. This doesn’t mean electrolgy doesn’t work. Compare the chin of a 20 year old to a 50 year old. Compare the body/ear hair of a prepubesent male to an old man. Age increases hair and causes you to need more treatments.

There are few things that get more bitter than electrologists talking about the question of upgrading equipment, and the fact that HairTell/HairFacts educated consumers ask directly, what brand of epilator are you using.

Well, lets talk folks.

Consumers pay us by the hour, not the body part, so how fast you can work directly effects what they pay to get their work done. HairFacts/HairTell readers know that knowing your hourly rate without your speed on their personal hair problem is useless information. They also know that the machine you use directly effects how fast you can work, which directly effects how many hairs you can remove per hour, and that means it dictates what the fastest completion time they can achieve can be. This is no small consideration when one is expected to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars.

Electrolysis is part Art, and part Science and the difference between practitioner’s is usually more art than science. We all say it till we are blue in the face – “Practitioner skill is the most important thing.” One also has to understand that since practitioner education is NOT assured, and practitioner continuing education is NOT assured and even licensure and testing, and all the credentials up the you know what don’t equal perfect work, clients have to go at this by way of minimizing their risks while trying to find a needle in a haystack. A 1968 Volkswagen Beatle will take you across the United States and from Spain to Italy, but most people would rather make that trip in a Lexus ES.

Since the more computerized machines simplify treatment, and even makes suggestions, it allows less skilled electrolysis workers to do better work until they are skilled enough to become the master of the machine. This is a big help!

There are other considerations here, although one can tap out the pulses you might program an Apilus or VMC or Fischer to do on any machine, if you HAVE one of these, you can do this faster and more reliably. Furthermore, you can do things you CAN’T do on lesser equipment. This means the treatment on the THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR equipment is more comfortable AND faster when used properly. Would this color your choice in practitioner? I think it would. Another thing these “hoity toity” machines do is stuff that was not even thought of when older stuff was made, like being able to pre-program a S.I.M.P.L.E. protocol into your machine so all you have to do is insert the probe and move the probe within the follicle, instead of trying to sync up your foot tapping and hand motion, while keeping the skin spread, and hoping the client doesn’t move. There are insertion delays available on the new stuff that are not available on the old stuff. I am used to working with an insertion delay of .1 - .3 seconds, and that is not even available on most machines made before the year 2000. This alone would make my work 33% to 50% slower than it is.

Now you have said that when you started mimicking the Apilus treatment style, your clients told you that they were more comfortable and more satisfied, and they probably started booking longer appointments, and maybe even more frequent ones as well. Go get yourself a genuine Apilus, and you will have the reduced irritations leading to clients who can go out on the town THE SAME DAY they had their upper lip done and you will recoup the investment in the increased business from your current clients, in addition to the new clients you get because people book more and longer appointments and therefore get finished faster, and therefore tell their friends sooner (or at all) and therefore lead to more people actually believing that there is hope out there…

Or perhaps I should just shut up, keep this to myself, and just make all the money for myself.

Just keep in mind, in a race between you and Mario Andretti, where you get the Formula One Racer and Mario is stuck in a 3 shifter Yugo GV, you will be ahead of Mario until you crash the car because you don’t know what you are doing. Mario only wins because he won’t crash, and he will finish the race… but if you only knew enough to keep the racer on the road, you too could beat Mario Andretti in a car race.

an experienced electrologist can get 5-6 hairs per minute with microflash/thermolysis.

Lets get back to the heart of the original post and the person who started it. Or perhaps James, she can fly to the states and get her treatments from you I am sure she will save enough to justify the flight.

She posts her pictures. She is told that she should get the blend.

The blend is not available (legal) in her country.

She get reassurance that her arms are progressing nicely.

She gets a post telling her what epilator her electrologist should be using. During regular business hours I will call Apilus and see about the availabilty of their equiptment in Swenden. If the conformation is positive she can insist the elusive operator purchase a new machine or she can keep her hair.

Or she can take comfort in thefact that she is receiving competent treatments from a capable operator.

Yes, Iam mimicing the effects of the equiptment but it costs more then I make in ayear. Should I throw in the towel or take a second job? Should I move to your densely populated area and give you a run for your money? Maybe I can be an outlaw electrologist in Sweden, doing the blend in back alleys.

So be real, people drive to see me from 150 north and 75 miles south and don’t see much more then deer in between. This state doesn’t have the population of your city. Does this make me less skilled then you? Maybe less practiced. So we aren’t deserving of electrolysis here? I am trying to offer something that would otherwise not be available.

Back to Sweden, should she just drop her treatments because her undoubtably skill electrolgist doesn’t have the equiptment you recommend?

You say “let them eat cake” I say “off with your head.”

If you are electrology’s friend. . . .

And PS to you James I have poked myself with a needle 3 times in 6 plus years. Makes me think you are really careless.

“She posts her pictures. She is told that she should get the blend…”

No one told her to get the blend. What are you talking about?

“She gets a post telling her what epilator her electrologist should be using…”

She asked what epilator I use. No one, me especially, told her to tell her electrologist to buy a new epilator. What are you talking about?

“During regular business hours I will call Apilus and see about the availabilty of their equiptment in Swenden…”

I’ll save you a call: try www.dectrointernational.com/apilus/apidex.htm?intlist.htm
Go to homepage and distributors. They sell to many countries, why not Sweden?

Also, check out www.silhouet-tone.com/profile/indexProfile.html
They sell epilators and other esthetic equipment in 48 countries around the world. Why not Sweden? Let us know what you find out, so we can all learn.

Again, no one advised her to tell her electrologist to go out and get two of the sweetest epilators on earth.

“Or she can take comfort in thefact that she is receiving competent treatments from a capable operator…”

It sounds like that comfort and encouragement was given. What are you ever talking about?

“Maybe I can be an outlaw electrologist in Sweden, doing the blend in back alleys…”

I’m really not sure that doing the blend in Sweden is not legal. Wherever did you get that information? Really, viewer, can you help us learn if this is really true?

“Back to Sweden, should she just drop her treatments because her undoubtably skill electrolgist doesn’t have the equiptment you recommend?..”

It’s been said (and outlined in detail) many times here on hairtell that there is a definite advantage to the 21st century epilators over the older styles, and there is. Electrologists that have had the joy of using these epilators correctly, understand what I’m saying here. With that comment, you will usually see that all agree, practitioner skill is important no matter what equipment one has their disposal.

Please don’t feel like you are being “attacked” on this issue, viewer. I have used both older models and newer models and I just happen to personally like the bells and whistles and excellent engineering of the high-ended computerized stuff much, much better and so do my clients. I would take a loan out if I didn’t have the money, up front, to replace it.

When you have good equipment, that costs more than you make a year, you can actually recoup what you paid for it, and more, pretty fast. Clients will schedule longer appointments and go onto other areas and tell their sisters and daughters and friends and aunts. These epilators deliver current at a pretty comfortable level and results have been amazingly fast. Anyway, James Walker already explained all of this in his post, so I won’t be redundant here.

I sincerely respect the fact that you happen to do electrolysis with different equipment,no matter what kind or how old it happens to be. Your situation is your situation and you are comfortable. But tell me what is wrong with sharing information about what the newer stuff can do with the consumers on hairtell? That’s why they check in. What am I missing here?

Miskah is doing well. She is smart and aware of what is taking place (thanks to hairtell, right?). She has a good relationship with her practitioner and she will succeed.

Miskah, I hope you understand and benefit from this discussion and keep moving forward on your arms.

Dee