Part II: Laurier

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#621

I’m sorry mumbaigirl, the Indian sales go through Instantron and Texas Electrolysis Supply and not direct. Might I suggest you contact them. I don’t know if they can help because the orders are quite large so I must assume they are dealing with large scale buyers over there.

Judging by the numbers, I would say the IBP should not be too hard to find used in Mumbai somewhere. I would ask.

In my opinion a client has every right to know what products and equipment are being used on them, although I urge diplomacy when discussing these choices with your electrologist. Remember, the vast majority of these people have an enormous amount of training and study behind them to get where they are and do not make these choices lightly.

#622

I immediately had the same question as mumbaigirl when I read India. Mike, do let us know if you ever happen to find out what the major cities are where the laurier is used. Curious.

#623

Thanks Laurier. Will contact them :slight_smile:

#624

Hi Mike:

Harry here, long time, no talk.
Actually your first assumption was correct. We have been manufacturing our standard two-piece needle for over fifty years.
I got involved way back in the early 70’s when I designed the first automatic assembly machines to make them. Previous to that, they were all “hand made”.

Our founder Joe Ferrie started selling the needles to the UK back in the 50’s. Johanna Lack was his big promoter back then and marketed to the UK, most of Europe and beyond. It was Johanna who coined the phrase “Ferrie Needle” as Joe private labeled the product to her. From this phrase came the “F” shank needle, a standard .050 diameter shank.

Hope this sets the record straight. I am sure if I look, I still have some old “Ferrie Needle” packaging to back this little story up.

We still of course manufacture the “F” or “Ferrie” needle, now called “Precision” but not in the quantities that we manufacture our Uniprobes.

Best to you and hope to talk sometime, Harry

#625

I’m not Mike, Harry, but let me say that we hope to have you here more often. In your 4 comments there is a pearl. Always it is better quality than quantity. :slight_smile:

#626

Well hello Harry ! Good to see that some of the old guard still rolls their sleeves up to make their product. My dad still made them till a couple of months before we lost him.

We still outsource our assembly locally, our focus remains the bulbous tip and the taper. Our methods have become more efficient, but the process is exactly the same. We don’t sub the sterilization though, we do that right here ourselves.

The one non-US material we use nowadays is the sterile pouches, they come from Canada, everything else is still US made.

#627

Hi Josefa,

How are you? Philomena here from Ireland, I for one have worked constantly with the Laurier Insulated Probes since 1987 & can honestly say having tried many other brands there is nothing superior or even comes close to the results that I have recieved on client’s while working with the Laurier Insulated Probe. For many years I worked with 4s & 5s but have now come to love number 3s for all fine lip work. Results are amazing, number 1 - no scabs, number 3 probe - on fingers, toes & fine hair, skin heals beautifully, number 2 - work done on larger areas under arms, bikini, nape of neck, legs etc. As time passes the pores completely shrink, the skin is fabulous, never to have know there was a hair in these areas.

Philomena

#628

Hi Philomena. Nice to meet you!

You have a great advantage, 25 years working with the IBP. I only know the probe from a year ago, but as we say here: “Better late than never”. Congratulations on your decision to distribute the Laurier. No doubt this will benefit all European clients and professionals. I’m sure you will give appropriate advice to master the use of this probe. I have found that some colleagues are frustrated at first because they must change their technique. However, those who have insisted, we are rewarded for more satisfied customers.

Funny how a small detail which no one gives too much importance, changes things. Yes, today I can say with strongly that there is a before and after in my career with the use of IBP.

#629

I wonder – what are the main changes in technique? Reducing the current and doing two pulses at different depth for anagen hairs? Is it right?
Or something else as well?

#630

I’d like to get some feedback here on the 4.5’s from you folks testing them. Next week I’m going to make more of them and there’s a couple points to discuss.

My origonal intent for them was to deliver the advantages the IBP provides with the more rigid “feel” a one-piece needle provides and the speed attainable with them. To my suprise, however, my testers are finding them quite useful for legs, underarms and beards where insertions tend to be shallow and the hair diameter large.

The exposed tip lengths of our standard Probes were developed over decades of research by my father and the likes of Harold and Arthur Mahler and Lucy Peters. I am loathe to deviate any significant amount from those parameters, and they still hold true in 99% of cases. Dr, Schuster taught, as my father did, that a small Probe is a “hot” Probe. This is true with respect to a given pulse delivered to two different sized Probes ( calculate the surface area of the exposed cylinder and it will be obvious why ) The rapid advancements Instantron and others have made in their pulse “recipes” and delivery methods have made that rule much more flexible for the operators over the years. We are exploring the possibilities with this in mind.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the “long tip” version is redundant to our standard .005" IBP so we’ll let that one go.

So, on to the “short tip” version.

These next ones will be made to the standard Medium (7/32") overall length. In comparison to the short tip ones you have now, would you see an advantage to:

  1. Reducing the tip diameter to .004" vs. the .0045" it is now?

  2. Reducing the exposed tip length from the .045" it is now? (the ones you have now are the same exposed tip length as a standard .004" IBP )

I am of the opinion that if we approach the .035" exposed tip length of the standard .003" that the Probe will become unruly, more so for the less advanced machines. The pro’s here may beg to differ. ( this is why Enzo wants to hear what Fernando has to say :wink: )

Everyone have a great weekend ( I even heard a nasty rumor that Josefa took some time off for herself :crazy: )

#631

I would say that the shorter exposed probe would be good for working shallow follicles, like upperlips, and accellerated vellus hairs.

#632

The idea of testing the prototypes in other areas of the body comes from the need to exploit the qualities of the IBP, without giving up a great speed. There are areas such as the lumbosacral area where the correct insertion is complicated if you do not keep stretched skin permanently due to the elasticity of this anatomical region. The same occurs in knees, infra-umbilical area, underarms, genitals, etc… Age and overweight are also factors to consider. You will not work in young and firm skin with 0 fat layer so easily, like working a loose skin where your hands have to endure several kilos of pressure to keep the area taut enough to insert the probe. Thus, the firmeness that you have added to the heavy IBP is an invaluable help, Mike.

Working on facial areas has nothing to do with working in body areas. The diameter of a standard 003 probe is perfect for a woman’s upper lip, and its total length (Short and Medium) offers great flexibility to achieve a imperceptible insertion. Also, the diameter of the tip of a standard .003 with the same exposed tip length as a standard .004 is perfectly suited to other areas like arms, stomach, or buttocks of a woman. Hence the idea of creating a heavy 003 with great firmness to body areas which have abundant hair of type “vellus” , is an excellent idea. Although, in a short or medium size. The length of a Long one ruins the purpose of a high speed.

We all know that races are won or lost in pits.
Mike, you have more in common with “Il Commendatore” of what you think:
Using your own analogy:

If the body work were the circuit, Long size is like hard tires, they have little wear but reduce the speed.

The heavy 4,5 medium, is the equivalent of super soft tires (new this season in F1). We, the speed lovers in Electrolysis, are in luck. :smiley:

#633

Another interesting twist to the journey :smiley:

Would you say more rigid than a standard .003" medium ? The standard .003" medium is a short made on a medium blank. To put it another way, the taper begins 1/32" away from the stem and tapers for 3/16" to .003 just like a short. It leaves a short section of .005" wire close to the stem. It would be a simple matter to move the beginning of the taper out even more to make the Probe more rigid.

My only concern with the extra tip length would be leading a less experienced operator with a less sophisticated epilator to use too small a tip due to the ease of insertion.

#634

Back to the 4.5’s in the works…

I sure would like some opinions from those of you using them on the tip length. The “short tip” ones you have are the same exposed length as a standard 4. Should we hold that length ? Or would you like to see the tips even shorter ?

I think we’re close enough at this point to offer them on the market. Instantron will have them in stock very soon.

-Mike

#635

Mike,

The bottom line for me is for some areas, mainly body areas, I desire more rigidity. I do like the 4.5’s for the rigidity.

Unfortunately, so far this summer, my back guys are not on a consistent schedule because they are off traveling for extended periods of time. I am ready to start a few more back cases in August, so the probes you sent are still waiting for some action. I want to use these prototypes on back cases only. I did sneak and use them on the bikini line. They worked great and the woman was more comfortable with these probes as oppossed to the Ballet probe I used last time.

For some of these deep man back hairs, with root sheaths that extend from the deep anagen part of the follicle almost to the epidermis, I like a tip that hits bottom to top in one burst of energy. I need more time to observe. I have your diagram you sent and have probes to match each picture. I am ready to dig in and observe, but at this time, I am doing more peach fuzz faces than very coarse man back hair. So, I am stalled until my veteren men restart their treatments and the new ones begin their treatment in early August.

Studying the size differences of the exposed tips shows me that the sizes are not all that far apart. Is it the taper part that is more important? From my side of the fence, I just want a smooth insertion with a a sturdy probe, that hits a good size area, without getting sticky. What slows me down is the buildup of sticky matter. Adjusting the intensity and timing can solve the problem, but when I do this, I may have to hit the follicle twice in order for the hair to release. Can the taper be adjusted so I am not wasting time cleaning the probe or changing the probe? I can’t remember what size or prototype I was using when this happened, but will write a note to myself next time. If I use a Ballet 5 or 6 Gold, this is not a problem. Is it because this probe brand is a one piece?

I am all about efficiency . When I get in my zen, I just want to move in a rythmic fashion knocking out hair, without interruption.

Thanks Mike!

#636

By the way, I don’t think you have to improve on your Dad’s probe recipe. He got it right. I do like the back probe prototype improvement and hope to figure out the tip part as soon as my back subjects gear up.

#637

I agree with you and many, many others Dee. Decades of apprenticeship have taught me the importance of his specifications. What we’ve done so far has been “inside the box” on the edge, but inside it. Our concern here is the speed requirement laser has put upon the profession in recent past. If we can make a slight alteration to the physical aspects of the IBP without sacrificing performance, I’m all for it. If we can tune the “feel” of it to it’s operator, we can add to the speed that can be attained with it.

Some of the designs we’ve discussed do go outside the box for special applications and I will be very leery of producing them for general sale. For example, one spec I want you to take note of is the tip length for those back hairs. Extending beyond .055" does leave the box. It may be what’s needed in this case for your one shot kill, but would be mis-applied when used on a male beard. It would be no worse than an uninsulated needle, but would defeat the purpose of the IBP in that case.

#638

I wonder of for some of these situations the tapered but uninsulated Laurier probes might to the trick?

#639

Have you seen the thermolysis video by Dr. Schuster beate ? The taper of the bare needle mimics the taper of the root sheath. This gives relativly even contact along it’s length. This allows ohm’s law to produce the teardrop shaped pattern Shuster demonstrates. A cylindrical needle makes more contact at the tip and less as you move up the sheath. The taper is very important to a bare needle.

#640

No i have not.
But i own a package of tapered size 5 long (due to a long resolved shipping error from a dealer) which saved my job in a case where extremly deeply routed bikini hairs with a strong tendency to grow in needed to be treated. All other probes were too short and did not get the hair resolved. Yes, and the feeling and the effinciency were almost as good as with the IBPs.

Meanwhile this is almost done, and the few remaining hairs are treated with a thinner IBP.