Can someone help me out regarding TS friendly Electrologist(s) in the Milwaukee and South Milwaukee and Oak Creek Area here in Wisconsin…? Looking for a professional that would be willing to set-up a sliding scale pay cost ratio if possible
Thank You for your help. Nikita Please send all replies to nappel2015@yahoo.com or nappel2015@outlook.com
Check out Laura’s Playground.
I doubt that you find anyone to do a sliding scale pay cost ratio. I think I understand what that means, but can you explain what you envision with a sliding scale pay cost ratio in more detail? I may need to re-think this in my own practice.
Hourly cost is based on income I’m willing to bet and usually those are setup in the form of foundations with government grants.
Many electrologists are self-employed and even with that get tax breaks for their work, I’m doubtful that an electrologist would be willing to work for less than what they’re asking.
I’m nowhere near Wisconsin, but count me amongst the handful of electrologists that DO offer a deeply discounted price to trans clients that have income issues (and, for that matter, I’m flexible with my prices for just about anyone that requests me to be). I have a number of upscale clients that won’t come to me if I wasn’t charging what my posted prices are (if you don’t charge enough, it must be because you aren’t good), but anyone can request a lower price… it’s just that my trans clients tend to be the ones most in need of it, since they have a hard time even finding employment here (and sometimes, I’ll proactively offer it to them if I sense that income is holding them back from getting the work done that they need).
Who makes up the difference in price? Nobody… these are people that kept my business afloat when I was first starting out, will end up paying for a ton of work and are often grateful beyond words. I get to see the difference in their life that I can make, even if all they can afford to do, is an hour once a month after scraping their pennies together. Every now and then, I also donate a couple one hour gift certificates to be raffled off at local events to try to support the trans community.
You are very generous and will have a line of transwomen beating down your door. it may be worth a move for you Nikita.
I love what EmancipatedElect is doing. I will say that it’s the right approach as well, giving what she can afford to but not making it necessarily free or giving away all her work.I have a slightly different approach, but it’s just how I work and it is also related to how I got into doing this in the first place.My “business Plan” is to not have one!
When I started doing electrolysis it was because I had a face full of hair and no means to take care of it.A few from here contributed in an effort to rid myself of this problem with their knowledge. The hitch was, I had no money.None zero zilch, in fact I was living in a motel room with 3 kids because they would not place me in a homeless shelter.
I’m going to expand on a point that Emancipated made related to transpeople in need of electrolysis and that is related to employment. Here in Canada there are actually protections related to transgender status regarding emplyment, however, in most cases this is not enough to prevent a transitioner from losing emplyment as a result anyway. Once that employment is lost, it also becomes more difficult to be rehired anywhere else. Gender Identity becomes a major barrier to employment, and that is why unemployment and underemplyment is highest amoung transgender people, often exceeding 70-80% . Yes, you heard that right a full 3/4 of transpeople have NO way to make a living and the cost of electrolysis represents a significant barrier to their transition. What happens when you over a long period of time lose the ability to support yourself and your family? The answer is no different here in canada than it is in the US, they end up on social assistance or welfare. To put that into perspective that generally means living off of less than $300 a month including all meals, clothing, and utility bills. $85 an hour for electrolysis, even once a month, becomes a serious obstacle to eating that month. The way the system works here though, and it’s no different in the US, is most often transpeople get funneled into a cycle that lands them on social assistance, often for decades.
When I started doing work, I did set up a fee schedule, but never followed it. Actually I think only by one client have I ever actually pay my whole fee . For the rest, they are told that if they have hair they want removed to come get it removed. If they are able contribute to costs by throwing $20 or so at me when they are done, fantastic, otherwise I was happy to help. If I’m honest, and if I added up all the money I ever received through this method it probably has not covered the cost of my initial machine purchase but I’ve added 2 beched, an autoclave, it costs me for probes, Aloe, lidocaine cream, gloves and all the trimmings.
I will say, that I regularly turn down paying work, who are more than willing to pay my $50 an hour fee. It all comes down to why I do it in the first place, it’s because I know that the hair grown leads to dysphoria and depression, and sometimes things as serious as suicide. Coming from that same place I understood. But I do less work because it costs me to perform it, and what I bring in does not cover those costs. I get out of it, a constant supply of skin to work on and keep the skill sharp and often a smile at the end which is the biggest reward. Ya once every couple weeks someone will shove $20 at me because they can afford it, but most often they cant, and that’s ok too.It als o though means there is less motivation for the electrologist to take on more work, and in fact I wont take on more than 3 or 4 sessions in any given week because I’ve had to limit my time committment to something I essentially do for no or little money.
I think it’s unrealistic however to think that when an electrologist is charging an $85 hourly rate, they are making most of that. The costs add up, it costs me $200 a year to have my autoclave spore tested, then there are the pouches, the sheets used on the esthetics table need to be laundered, there’s probe costs and gloves and all that good stuff not to mention rent on their establishment . I suppose that why minor discounts are offered sometimes by electrologists but not often consistently, and probably not in your area. More often than not that lower rate means the electrologist is making almost nothing. It’s not practical to consistently not cover your costs, and if you consistently undercut yourself there is also less motivation to take on a lot of work that way. So while I encourage all to offer discounts where they feel they are able to, I would give this piece of advice, and budget how much you are giving away carefully.There will always be more work at discounted ( or nonexistant) rates than you are willing to take on.
Seana
Hi Dee Fahey,
Thanks for your reply to my posting, basically a sliding scale is something on a professional/business agreement between the two parties. Example I’m willing to do up to 5 hrs of electrolysis at a appointment on a weekly basis. Say you charge $100 per hr a session we agree to $60 per hr you the professional still makes a pretty good sum, and you know I will be back next week both parties are happy that is a sliding scale. Personally I’m thinking between $1000 to $1500 total and my beard troubles would be over. Realistically I still would have to have follow ups, but the new beard growth would be extremely fine almost invisible.
Best Regards,
Nikita
Hi Sena,
Wow I couldn’t have said it better explaining a sliding scale…!
Thanks for your educated and honest and obviously experienced reply to my posting.
Best Regards,
Nikita
HiEmancipatedElect,
You remind of the many thoughtful and caring Professional’s out there, to bad were not a lot closer !. I knew someone while I lived in Madison WI that has the same caring understanding and openness and helping attitude for all of us T-girls.
Thank You,
Nikita
umm…wow, , well, I have to be honest and say, that unless you have virtually no hair to remove, that $1500 would not be nearly enough. I am not sure what you are thinking of for a rate, but I think even if you had a very minimalist rate, you are looking at 4-5 times that amount. The best electrologists on this board, even if they would work at a rate of $60 ( at which point they would be probably losing money on every treatment) take 90-100 hours of electrolysis to remove a beard. Some less qualified ( and willing to take such a low rate) may take double that amount of time? But math should tell you that even at $60 an hour, $1500 would only buy you 25 hours, not nearly enough to remove a beard.
I wanted to expand a little bit on costs too. If I added up all the costs , supplies, utilities, rent depreciation on that VERY expensive machine bench and stool and magnification, and prorated it over the expected number of hours an electrologsist spends actually working, you are looking at probably $50 in costs for the electrologist to perform an hour of electrolysis. Yes, really that high, in fact I’m probably being conservative. If they are charging you only $60 an hour its because they REALLY like you,you are not making even minimum wage for your electrologist.
There is a number of great electrologist in the Los Angeles area charging between $60-70/hr. I can’t speak to the cost of electrolysis from the electrologist’s POV, but I’d have a hard time believing they’re making so little at $60-70/hr and able to live even somewhat comfortably in Los Angeles
Years ago, when the going rate was $40 - 50 per hour, I charged $10 per hour to my TG people … I finally raised my rates to $15. No complaints “Neither.”
TG clients (only) still get a discount (free hours) and sometimes a “trade.” One TG woman is a mechanic and she’s putting rack-and-pinion steering in my old Mustang! Vrooooooooom!
It does vary from place to place as to what costs will be, I can only say as to what costs are around here.Years ago, it may have been different, but I can tell you that the figure I quoted comes pretty close to what the costs are here. I know this from taking the time to actually add up my costs and determine, per use, what it really costs me, and from knowledge of what rents on commercial space locally is and utility rates.
Interestingly enough, locally, there was a woman who was pretty good, and her rates WERE $50 an hour. almost every other electrologist was charging about $90 an hour. The lady who charged $50, stopped doing so because she was spending more than she was bringing in doing so, and she worked from her home so didnt pay commercial rent.
Do YOU think $1500 is enough to do a beard removal on a transexual?
I have to say, a professional electrologist SHOULD work on any kind of people, regardless gender identity, sex, ethnicity or whatever…
This concept of “trans friendly” seems very odd to me. An electrologist should be friendly with all kind of clients. (If not, he/she doesn’t deserve to be called professional)
Anyway, I hope you will find a good professional .
I get calls asking me if I am Transgender friendly. This has always sent weird feelings shooting through my body.
My answer? " I am friendly to ALL clients, but I’m unfriendly to hair".
I don’t differentiate people. I am commanded to love and that about sums it up.
I understand why the question is asked, but I still don’t like that approach. Just tell me you are transitioning or whatever and we will go from there.
Also, I do not ask if someone is male, female or any other category of being human on my intake form. I don’t care. I can see clues that will answer that question and if I don’t see the clues, I’m pretty stupid.
Hi Dee,
I wish it werent necessary for transgender folks to ask this question, but unfortunately, it is. To demonstrate this (locally) here’s the results of a search for electrolysis here in my home city on Kijiji and also for Toronto. I’m going to obscure the contact information on purpose:
IN MY …HOME ESTHETIC STUDIO. I AM A PROFESSIONAL AND EXPERIENCED ELECTROLOGIST AND ESTHETICIAN. A FRIENDLY BILINGUAL SERVICE IN A QUIET AND RELAXED ATMOSPHERE…(only for women) EXTREMELY CLEAN.
Certified Electrologist now taking new clients (for women only).
New Appointments will be scheduled for July or later.
Free Consultation (includes a free 15 min. appointment)
Electrolysis services offered in a private, cozy, and clean environment
Ladies Only
Professional Hair Removal (for Women only) ПрофеÑÑиональное Удаление Ð’Ð¾Ð»Ð¾Ñ (Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð–ÐµÐ½Ñ‰Ð¸Ð½)
100% Permanent, Painless, Safe / ÐавÑегда, Безболезненно, БезопаÑно
Electrolysis Technology / Ðлектролиз
=========================================================
ELECTROLYSIS - PEMANENT HAIR REMOVAL (for ladies)
Watch|Share |Print|Report Ad
This may not seem like alot, but actually, this represents 2/3 to 3/4 of the advertisements in both cities. It’s not explicit, since, any transgender woman could argue they identify as a Lady or Woman, but it’s enough to to give pause to any transgender person, and to perhaps look elsewhere. Perhaps this is why those electrologists who DO gleefully accept transgender clients, make a point of advertising and indicating such, because the other side are clearly indicating their preferences. In my country we have protections for transgender people, and to openly say we dont accept transgender people could land them before the provincial human rights commission. By being slightly less overt about it, they can get away with it.
Can you blame a transgender person for being discreet when this is what they are faced with on a daily basis most especially when your advertisements dont indicate one way or the other??
I have to say though, my preference in wording for an electrologist would tend towards someone who indicates they accept all genders, rather than explicity bringing up the T word.
Seana
I have trans clients that aren’t out to anyone at all yet, including friends, a therapist, etc. I’m literally the first person they’ve ever expressed this need to or, more often, the first non-close-friend.
It’s an extremely stressful thing to call up someone and ask for help with something that you’ve been hiding from everyone, including yourself, for decades, so I make sure I go out of my way to say that I’m trans affirming (not just merely trans friendly), devote space on my website to their various issues (facial hair, removal before surgery, trans men wanting to masculine their hair line, etc).
I’ve had a few of my clients come in talking about how they tried going to other electrologists in the past but were treated quite rudely, with one of them claiming the electrologist they saw was extremely transphobic (I also met one of these practitioners at school). A couple of them went years without treatment before finding me precisely because their early experiences were so horrible.
Sadly, it’s not enough to assume all electrologists are decent human beings, particularly when you are from a marginalized, frequently mocked group of people.
Emancipated - I absolutely love what you are doing and what you are all about. As you know, I am in Los Angeles and doing much the same thing. In fact, I work with a psychotherapist who takes a similar approach to payments. She has a posted rate, but will consider price breaks on a case-by-case basis. The going rate for electrolysis in my area of suburban LA is $70 bucks per hour. Obviously I am not going to openly advertise anything less than that on my website; but that does not preclude me from lowering my costs or being generous as circumstances dictate. And as a trans woman, I know how difficult and COSTLY transitioning can be.
[quote=“Iluv2zap”]
umm…wow, , well, I have to be honest and say, that unless you have virtually no hair to remove, that $1500 would not be nearly enough. I am not sure what you are thinking of for a rate, but I think even if you had a very minimalist rate, you are looking at 4-5 times that amount. The best electrologists on this board, even if they would work at a rate of $60 ( at which point they would be probably losing money on every treatment) take 90-100 hours of electrolysis to remove a beard. Some less qualified ( and willing to take such a low rate) may take double that amount of time? But math should tell you that even at $60 an hour, $1500 would only buy you 25 hours, not nearly enough to remove a beard.
I wanted to expand a little bit on costs too. If I added up all the costs , supplies, utilities, rent depreciation on that VERY expensive machine bench and stool and magnification, and prorated it over the expected number of hours an electrologsist spends actually working, you are looking at probably $50 in costs for the electrologist to perform an hour of electrolysis. Yes, really that high, in fact I’m probably being conservative. If they are charging you only $60 an hour its because they REALLY like you,you are not making even minimum wage for your electrologist. [/quote]
Your post is right on in terms of treatment times and of the costs to the electrologist… In the interest of sharing information, here is text of a short paper I recently wrote on this topic for AIE in California. There is some jargon in it, but you can ask me or others for clarification. And if you have anything to add… please do. I won’t take offense:
Mandala Electrolysis
Article Review – Electrolysis in Transsexual Women: A Retrospective Look at Frequency of Treatment in Four Cases (1997,) published in The Journal of Electrolysis 1997, V. 12, No. 2, pp. 2-16.
To the best of this writer’s knowledge, the above is the only peer-reviewed article detailing treatment times for facial hair removal with male-to-female transgender patrons. In fact there is little published information about on this topic on the Internet or in magazines in general, making Dallas Denny and Ahoova Mishael’s article an important primary source of reference.
Dallas Denny is a transsexual woman, a longstanding advocate for transgender rights, mental health counselor, and author. She partnered with her own electrologist, Ahoova Mishael of Atlanta, Georgia, to publish the results of treating four transsexual women using a thermolysis-only modality. Her average time to completion of all treatments was 67 hours i.e., not just clearing an area, but total treatment time. Although the study reported on less than a handful of women, Ahoova chose the four cases as representative of the hundreds of other transgender clients whom she has served. Her results were an important motivation for publishing the study – to establish a benchmark against which other electrologists serving transgender patrons might aspire, and to provide transgender persons themselves with a framework for what they might expect to undergo and ultimately pay.
From the perspective of the transgender client, the latter is no small matter. According to Andrea James, who publishes the TSRoadmap, HairTell Forums, and HairFacts websites, facial hair removal for male-to-female transgender patrons ranges between 200 to 300 hours ("MTF Hair Removal: Electrolysis’ 2015); but she notes that while some patrons who see highly efficient practitioners, like Ahoova, might have an average time to completion for facial hair removal of 67 hours, others have reported as long as 700 hours to completion. That is a huge range, and even at an average time of 250 hours this represents a difference of $16,000 dollars to the patron. (250 X $90/hr = $22,500 versus 67 X $90 = $6,030.)
Interestingly, Michael Bono, an electrologist in Santa Barbara reports that his average time to completion for facial hair removal is also 67 hours. Bono uses a Hinkle-type epilator using a blend modality. And in his book The Blend Method, Bono reports that his total completion times were "nearly identical’ to Fino Gior’s (deceased,) an electrologist and author on the east coast who used a thermolysis only modality (Bono 1995). At the time of the study, Ahoova used an Instantron Model SS69, which is a simple epilator with one knob for controlling the RF output and another to control the timing (Denny and Mischael 1997).
The foregoing supports an assertion on Andrea James’s TS Roadmap website, that the modality and machine are of little consequence to the final results, and that the ultimate determinant of success is the skill of the particular electrologist. Obviously, to achieve the best results the electrologist must administer "enough’ current into the part of the follicle below the sebaceous gland to eliminate all the germinative cells, and to do so in an efficient manner. The indicator of having imparted "enough’ current remains the ease with which the hair epilates. In the case of the blend, the galvanic current would therefore seem to be an extra bit of "insurance’ in destroying the bulge area and other key tissues responsible for regrowth.
In any case, Ahoova reported a total time to completion for four transgender clients: "The hours in treatment ranged from 48.5 hours for Ann, whose facial hair was relatively sparse, to 105.25 hours for Marti, who presented with an exceptionally heavy beard. The mean was 67.3 hours.’ (Denny and Mischael 1997) This seems to be on par with what Michael Bono told me in personal conversation i.e., that individuals with heavy beards might expect to endure over a hundred hours of electrolysis, while those with sparser beards would require less.
Unfortunately Ahoova’s article did not share other potentially important specifics like timing in the follicle or preferred probe type (there is a statement in the article suggesting that Ahoova used an uninsulated probe.) Logically one might expect that she was epilating the hairs at the equivalent of a slower manual thermolysis, or perhaps at a faster pulsed timing performed with displacement. Others, including several instructors at AIE love the Synchro setting on the Apilus Platinum for similar work, while one AIE instructor, Rita Oliman, uses a pulsed thermolysis (Pico) setting and gets "great’ results. In any case, again, what seems to matter most is the overall effectiveness at getting a good release, an accurate insertion, and the overall efficiency (manual dexterity) of the electrologist.
Otherwise, the Ahoova/Denny article provides a good overview for practitioners on the hair removal needs of transgender women as well as an overview of the differences and needs of some of the subsets of persons who might identify as "transgender’ e.g., transsexuals, crossdressers, female impersonators. For example, the article addresses the need for genital hair removal in advance of genital reassignment surgery that a transsexual patron may require. The article also references the Standards of Care for transgender persons as published by the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association; The HBIGDA has long since changed its name to the World Professional Association of Transgender Health, or WPATH, whose Standards of Care are readily available online.
The Denny/Ahoova article also touches on marathon hair removal sessions, an approach that some providers use and which has an appeal for transgender clients seeking "fast’ results. Ahoova’s article cautions against the approach as being too aggressive and risking of skin damage, a position with which this writer concurs.
The Ahoova/Denny article also addresses the needs of transgender female-to-male individuals, who may require hair removal in advance of phallopasty. Phalloplasty involves the construction of a penis formed from skin grafts. Obviously one would need the donor tissue to be hair-free to avoid complications.
In closing, the Ahoova/Denny article provides the following advice:
"Our experience suggests that if electrolysis is ongoing for more than about 10 hours without significant reduction of beard growth (and specifically, if the length of the session necessary to clear the face or certain sections of it has not become shorter than earlier in treatment), there should, if the individual’s life circumstances permit, be a treatment holiday during which progress is evaluated. If treatment is judged to be ineffective, then a change should be made either in electrologist or in the method of treatment (e.g., blend instead of thermolysis, or a significant change in the intensity and/or duration of the current).’ (Denny and Mischael 1997)
The average beard has 25,000 hairs – thus to achieve a total average time to completion of 67 hours one would need to permanently remove all hairs at an average rate or 9 seconds per hair; but this includes treating all regrowth as well as insertion delays – the electrologist must therefore use sufficient current and move along steadily regardless of the modality or machine.
Citations –
Bono, Michael. 1995. The Blend Method. Tortoise Press.
Denny, Dallas, and Ahoova Mischael. 1997. "Electrolysis in Transsexual Women: A Retrospective Look at Frequency of Treatment in Four Cases.’ Journal of Electrolysis V. 12: pp. 2–16.
"MTF Hair Removal: Electrolysis.’ 2015. Accessed June 18. http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/hair/zapidx.html.
The Instantron Model SS69
There is a number of great electrologist in the Los Angeles area charging between $60-70/hr. I can’t speak to the cost of electrolysis from the electrologist’s POV, but I’d have a hard time believing they’re making so little at $60-70/hr and able to live even somewhat comfortably in Los Angeles [/quote]
Well, I am in the 'burbs of LA and the going rate is $70. Yeah, after taxes and other expenses, that’s not as much as some might assume! On the other hand rates in west LA are well over a hundred dollars. It varies by zip code.