My Story-Diary

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hello everyone, I’m an 18th year old portuguese male.

I was writing an extensive post about my problem when I suddenly went to the previous page and all got erased. Anyway, I’ll start again a little more resumed this time around.
I’m writing this so I can get these things of my chest and so that I can be advised by professionals here and informed about the journey I will possibly start.

So let me tell you my story. In May 2010 I started to have IPL treatments on my upper back and the back side of my neck. – I had black vellus hair – It was nothing really, I wish I had never gone for those treatments. If I regret one thing in life, it’s that.

I was uninformed and threw myself to it without searching and informing myself first. It could have save me a lot of worries and money…

So the result of about eight sessions with IPL was that it got worse. Then I found this website and learned about the induced hair growth in these areas, electrolysis, and so on. I read hundreds of posts and got to the point where I knew that electrolysis was the only way to solve the mess I made.

I went online and searched for a place where I could be treated with electrolysis, turns out, it’s very rare in my country. I only found one clinic that does it and fortunately it’s near me. The thing is they use it as a complementary procedure to laser and IPL. When I went there I explained my problem and they told me all of this could’ve happened because of lower settings and wrong timing (the treatments on the other place were monthly). I tried to insist on electrolysis but they convinced me to give another chance to laser on higher settings because electrolysis is used only for small areas and blond/white hairs…

So, I went with their words (I was desperate) and got 2 sessions of laser and IPL with higher settings. RESULT: WORSE. I mean, really worse. While on the other place I would say it got 10% worse, here I’m talking about 50% worse with only 2 sessions two months apart. I think it was because of the settings. Before I wouldn’t actually see the hair shed, but on these two appointments I saw it. So what I think is that the situation got worse because the procedure was actually “working”, if you know what I mean. It reached the follicles but it didn’t kill them, it made them grow back thicker.

I confronted them and told them they made everything worse and that I would like to be treated with electrolysis. I talked about the things I read here, about the professionals that posted here, etc… And it started a whole debate about wether I should trust “things I read on the Internet” and blah blah blah. They “informed” me that because of my age that it could be something natural and not induced by laser.

Let me tell you, what troubles me the most is that at this point I don’t know if it’s something that was meant to happen or something I brought to myself. I mean I really think the treatments did this to me, I saw it happen gradually and it got worse once the settings used, got higher (thought: it reached more hairs, that’s why it got far worse than the other ones). Besides, no males in my family have hairs in their back, and the hairs I have, besides being generally longer than before, they seem quite unnatural, appearing in patches and only in the areas I know the treatments reached.

Resuming, they agreed to treat me with electrolysis. I booked two 1hour sessions spaced a week apart, to test.

I will update on how the treatments went and how I’m healing but I need to sleep for school tomorrow. For now I would like to know if any of you have ever heard about the machine they used, it’s called ELITE SPECTRUM, it doesn’t seem very high tech. I grabbed a metal cylinder throughout the treatment.

Also I only did this two hours as a test, I would like you to tell me what should I expect to see in the area treated. How long should I wait to see if it did something? two weeks? two months?

I will update shortly with how it went and photos of before and after if it helps you make your advice. I just need you to tell me a good way to post them here.

Thank you for reading, and sorry for my english.

#2

Now is when I deeply regret not insisting more to convince one of my clients (a guy from Lisbon) that he tell his story of failure with the laser here on Hairtell. His story is identical to yours. I told him, “You should talk, your testimony can help other young Portuguese”. Unfortunately he would not talk to avoid controversy with LAgirl. Still, I keep his email.

If he gives permission I will send to Andrea.

#3

Oh, how I understand your situation.
I have had many laser and IPL treatments as well, without any results.
It´s terrible to hear about your increase in hairs after the treatments.

I think there are many such “excuses” among laser an IPL.
“Its your hormones”, “you need even more treatments”… etc.
I think I have heard them all.
The thing is: there are no excuses for the bad results when you have had (take my case as an example) plenty of treatments of the same IPL on the highest settings and perfect time between session!

From my point of view it seems like laser/ipl-treatments MAYBE help. Electrolysis acctually helps.
I am now being treated with electrolysis, after several failures of different IPL and laser machines.

Another thing is all the money (and time) you have spent on these treatments.
I recently got 100% of my money back. After confronting them with the “results”. It took plenty of effort, but I was helped along the way. You definitely should get a refund. You pay for less hairs, not more!!

#4

Oh well Josefa, I would love to hear about his story :slight_smile:

Now, on September 23rd I went to my first electrolysis session. It went for an hour and I think it went very good. You see, I always read about all of you experts in here and how you do it and I think it’s hard that someone can match up your skills.

I choosed to treat my left “shoulder” so I could compare to the other in a few weeks. (how many weeks do you think I should wait?)

The machine is called ELITE SPECTRUM and it looks like this one:

http://www.planet-dragos.com/Epilators/elite.php - I’m not saying it’s exactly this one because while searching I found like two models similar but with different characteristics.

She used a golden needle. She covered a good area in the first treatment, my concern is she didn’t achieve a full clearance. I mean, there were a few hairs that weren’t treated mixed with others that were in fact treated. This only concerns me because if I take this ahead it would be easier to track the results this way… Anyway, I didn’t feel the needle being inserted and after that I felt like two, sometimes four, electric shocks. I don’t know exactly which modality she used… The procedure was quite bearable the first time, although some areas were quite painful, the closer it went to my spine the more painful it was.

In terms of plucking, I should say that in 10 hairs, 1 of them was plucked (in general), she mentioned it while she was doing it, she apologized and said that it was because they got caught when she pulled the ones that were treated. Overall I think it went well. I’m thinking about only treating the coarser hairs first and then we’ll see about that. The week after (30 September) had my second appointment and it was very painful but that was due to a bad night sleep and other factors.

About the healing, after the first treatment I got a little swelling and redness that went away in a day and got with little red scabs for about a week until they started to fall off. Same with the second treatment.

It’s been two weeks after the first treatment. I can’t really explain exactly in English what I see but it seems that the hairs that are there were the ones that weren’t treated and I say this because I’m still a bit tanned of the summer and when those little scabs were formed and they fell off, those small dots are now lighter than the rest of the skin and in those spots there is no hair (yet?).

I’ll keep updating, I’ll try to upload the photos this week still. In the meanwhile I would like you to tell me what you think.

Thanks.

#5

Nice to know someone out there shares the same situation as me…
I agree with everything you said, the thing is, it’s hard for a 18 year old boy to confront a clinic that has 25 years of existance. Even if I take legal matters it will take years and years (justice does not work in Portugal) and I will probably upset the only clinic in my country with the means to treat me.

#6

I understand your situation very well. I was in your shoes a couple of months ago.
Have you tried to confront them? Maybe you could get some per cent of the money back.

Then you could spend that money on electrolysis :slight_smile:

#7

Gearing up.

I have very recently started working with a lawyer, and he may end up with a dedicated website for those looking to have money returned from failed treatments. It’s all a matter of knowing exactly how to do this. There are many articles that detail the problems with specific modalities and the performing technician should understand these and tell you about these difficulties. In the US, the typical "waiver” might only dissuade a patient from a lawsuit; but if there really was damage or non-performance, the waiver means nothing.

So far we have found that the physician/technician would rather “quietly” return fees than go to court. There have been some interesting ramifications to “the return fees” quest and this seems to be having a good effect, i.e., more honest detaining of the treatments being performed. Once a patient gets fees returned, the practitioner tends to spell out the potential problems … and is much less prone to “hype” the procedure to people they (should know) might have a bad result.

All of us need to be more specific and detailed in whatever treatment we provide. ALWAYS look after the interests of your patient. Our patients are precious; they are our “charges.” If you are “all about money” you will eventually find yourself in trouble. Yes, I’m working with the lawyer that will be most happy to “stick it to them.” (Part of his job will be to detail what a prospective patient should do before any treatment is performed.)

#8

Hello Jonhyvb,

You have described things very well, in general, it seems that things are doing well. I would insist that the practitioner will make sure no hair offers resistance, Otherwise, this means more hair regrowth to deal in the second clearance, more likely to ingrowns and deeper roots (greater injury than is necessary).

In an ideal world, they should be responsible for the failure of previous laser treatments and offer you a discount for Electrolysis, a value equivalent to the amount wasted in laser.
As said Boy, you’ve paid to get less hair, no more. Plus, minus and equal are 3 concepts confusing to some people when money is at stake, especially if the money has already been entered in the cash register. Maybe it’s worth remembering the lessons of the characters in this useful children’s program “Sesame Street”.

I think they are using Flash on you. I would put pictures of a case of 2 hours on the back, with a high density of hairs. As stated by Michael Bono, a palm of your hand equals one hour of Electrolysis if unfortunately the density is maximum. But I do not want to put a pictures of another person in your thread.

One more thing, it is likely that the fine hairs that remain on your shoulder acquire thicker over time. You should delete all the hairs in this area.

#9

Hehe yes Josefa.
More, equal and less… VERY different.
It is only fair that you get discount of electrolysis when their laser treatments have failed.

And what a great idea from the lawyer, Michael.
That would help a lot of people, and promote justice in these cases. It really helps having support from someone who knows how to approach the situation with a good strategy, and that specializes in such cases.

As a patient it is very important to remember that a clinique is dependent on not getting bad customer reviews. As Michael said, when a costumer gets a refund of the money of his failed treatments he is less likely to “spread the bad news”, this because the case is considered finished and taken care of.
I think a clinique much rather will refund the money, than having unsatisfied costumers “spreading the word” and suing the company, resulting in less costumers and income.

#10

Hey everyone, thank’s for taking the time to respond to me.

I will for sure talk to them about the money situation, I agree with you, and I think it’s only fair that they at least discount the money on the treatments. I will update on that.

#11

Dear Josefa, I will talk to the practitioner so that there is no resistance of the hair. Maybe if I shave other hairs won’t get caught up? What’s your opinion on shaving when doing these type of treatments?

I recently went to swim and I shaved my back, do you think this will make harder to see if the treatments I had went well?

Anyway, I shaved about a week and a half ago, and I won’t shave the area again. I see some hairs on the shoulder that was treated but I do think they’re new ones/some of those that weren’t treated/illusion that small ones are thicker because of the blade.
I say this because, as I said earlier, my skin is still a bit tanned and you can see the difference on the tone where the scabbing ocurred, no hair coming out of there yet. Still, it makes a HUGE difference to the other shoulder.

I still need to post the photos but I’ve been quite busy with college and I did not have time to download the photos on my pc; also I’m waiting on the two months mark so I can put the before and after all together.

thank you.

#12

Sorry but I forgot to ask, why does this happen? Is it an illusion of treating only some hairs or are you talking about natural hair growth that could happen in the future?

#13

[color:#660000]Maybe if I shave other hairs won’t get caught up? What’s your opinion on shaving when doing these type of treatments?[/color]

Your electrologist should have given you very clear instructions in this regard. It is desirable to shave the area if your electrologist is in favor of working only in anagen, ie hairs are in growth phase at the time of the session. Personally I do not use this strategy because it only serves to increase the number of clearances required. Do not get me wrong, the TTT (total time treatment) will be the same in one way or the other. The difference is that you have to go more often to the clinic. For example, work only in anagen in an area that has 50% in anagen and 50% in telogen, mean that only half of the hairs can be treated in the first clearance, the rest (another 50%) need a few months to be treated. The sessions will be shorter at first, but will last the same from beginning to end. In contrast, if most of the hairs are present and your electrologist working at all (anagen and telogen), the time required for the first clearance will be higher, but the timing of next clearances will be much shorter. The difference is visible from the first clearance.

[color:#660000]I say this because, as I said earlier, my skin is still a bit tanned and you can see the difference on the tone where the scabbing ocurred, no hair coming out of there yet. Still, it makes a HUGE difference to the other shoulder.[/color]

Indeed, the small scab has left your skin from your natural color, if that point (not tan) remains without hair, your electrologist has done a good job. Whether you shave the area or not, this hair will never return, because the follicle is gone. However, it is likely that at your age (18 years) many blond hairs remain untreated, these hairs are thin and blond that can undergo changes in their physiology over time and a hormonal influence.

#14

I’m sorry I haven’t said nothing in a while. But college takes to much time out of me to post more often. So, at this point I’ve had 6 treatments.

Resuming: 1st treatment 23/09
2nd treatment 30/09
area: mostly my left shoulder (almost complete clearence)

      3rd - 10/11 - so I waited 1month and 1 week to start treatments again and what I saw was a minor regrowth on the left shoulder. really minor, the practicioner said they were probably new hairs.
      Since then I've been going to the clinic every week for an hour. So far 6 treatments (total) and I've reached 85% clearence. We've been advancing to new areas (within the back) every appointment. at this point I'm starting to see a few hairs on the left shoulder (last treated on 10/11 although only a short amount, really short.)

The post is confusing I know. So thank you.

#15

SOME PHOTOS AS PROMISED. I’ll update

http://www.myalbum.com/Album=BHKXS8AL

#16

Density (hairs per square centimeter) does not seem to be very high in the first photos. The after-treatment photo is not very clear, but it seems that she is doing a good job.
I would expect a couple of months and see what the degree of effectiveness.

An important detail, the process of growth of new hairs on your back is just beginning, it will not end here. The good news, every follicle which is being eliminated, will not produce another hair ever.

Have you noticed more hairs plucked accidentally?

#17

The next treatments went great and I haven’t felt any more plucking.

I know the density is not that high, but in the third photo did you noticed the sudden difference in the density and “coarseness” of hair? That photo shows my left shoulder and the area where the hair is more “dense” is where the laser/ipl reached.

So, I should wait about two months to check the results? What should I expect?

Thank you

#18

So here’s a new photo of my left shoulder.

The photo was taken last week (5 Dec-11 Dec). The area has not been treated since the 10th November. On that day she only did 10 or so hairs that were there; so in reality the first time the area was really cleared was on the 23rd September. What do you think? I’m choosing to focus on showing only one area of my treatment because I’m guessing it is better for anyone to follow and if one area is being well treated I’m guessing there’s no reason why the total area isn’t getting the same results.

Anyway, today I went for another appointment and it went well. The objective was to treat the hairs that are starting to show in the areas that were treated the longest ago. Does the sentence make sense?

So if area 1 was treated 5 weeks ago we’re treating that area because area 2 that was treated only one/two weeks weeks ago still seems cleared. Does it make sense?

I haven’t felt any plucking from the sessions. Even today i got to see some hairs being treated on my shoulder and I saw the insertion and the tweezers in action. I clearly saw that if the hair didn’t just slide out of the follicle she reapeated the insertion and applied more energy.

I’m thinking things are going well. She may not be the fastest but the hairs sliding out must be a good sign. Right?

I’m thinking on keep going to the appointments as there’s nothing that is keeping me from it… If you guys say things aren’t quite going as they should and you say I should wait I’ll take your advice.

I’ll just add that the sessions are a little bit painfull. It’s weird, some zaps I do not feel and others make me almost jump!lol
The area along the spinal is definitly more sensitive. But I get through the hour.

Another thing, as the other I saw a post about hair cycles and stuff; I took better notice of the hairs that were treated some had like a white stuff around them and others didn’t. What does that mean? Is that white stuff that grain of salt which people talk around here?

Thanks for reading! If there’s anything more you think I should notice/show or say please tell me!

#19

So here’s a new photo of my left shoulder.

The photo was taken last week (5 Dec-11 Dec). The area has not been treated since the 10th November. On that day she only did 10 or so hairs that were there; so in reality the first time the area was really cleared was on the 23rd September. What do you think? I’m choosing to focus on showing only one area of my treatment because I’m guessing it is better for anyone to follow and if one area is being well treated I’m guessing there’s no reason why the total area isn’t getting the same results.

You assume all right.

Anyway, today I went for another appointment and it went well. The objective was to treat the hairs that are starting to show in the areas that were treated the longest ago. Does the sentence make sense?

Yes, this makes sense. Your electrologist is following the strategy: “clear and advance”.

So if area 1 was treated 5 weeks ago we’re treating that area because area 2 that was treated only one/two weeks weeks ago still seems cleared. Does it make sense?

Yes, two weeks later there should be some scabs yet.

I haven’t felt any plucking from the sessions. Even today i got to see some hairs being treated on my shoulder and I saw the insertion and the tweezers in action. I clearly saw that if the hair didn’t just slide out of the follicle she reapeated the insertion and applied more energy.

Great!

I’m thinking things are going well. She may not be the fastest but the hairs sliding out must be a good sign. Right?

Yes!

I’m thinking on keep going to the appointments as there’s nothing that is keeping me from it… If you guys say things aren’t quite going as they should and you say I should wait I’ll take your advice.

I’ll just add that the sessions are a little bit painfull. It’s weird, some zaps I do not feel and others make me almost jump!lol
The area along the spinal is definitly more sensitive. But I get through the hour.

The area near bone is painful. The outer edges of the back are very sensitive too.

Another thing, as the other I saw a post about hair cycles and stuff; I took better notice of the hairs that were treated some had like a white stuff around them and others didn’t. What does that mean? Is that white stuff that grain of salt which people talk around here?

I will put a picture of telogen hairs look

Thanks for reading! If there’s anything more you think I should notice/show or say please tell me!

#20

Jon, here most of them are telogen hairs.