My Electrolysis Journey

My dear Jossy, I am a leaf in the wind. I go where the currents take me. When the wind brings me to Paris, I am in Paris, and when the wind brings me to Madrid, I go there. (of course, the last time I tried to, the state department of the US government issued a tourist warning and my trip was canceled)

Perhaps my friends in Spain will be fortunate enough to see me sometime in the near future. I know of a few people who want to hold me hostage in Spain, and some may even send their minions to fetch me. :wink:

Hi James:

I’ve heard that minions taste best on a sandwich with cheese and pickles.

Whatever you do, don’t mention the Spanish inquisition lest those guys from Monty Python
might spring out from behind the curtains.

The rain in spain falls mainly on the plane or was that plains?

Alicia

Alicia, I fear that James has a lot to confess. He has killed millions and millions of … hairs.

Moreover, can anyone remember the state department of US government that the ambassadors have diplomatic immunity?

Mr. Hon. Ambassador of the Electrolysis is not just a tourist. Come on! Condemned bureaucracy!

James, I will be one of the accomplices of your kidnap. :whistle: Hiding

[color:#990000]"ARRETE DU 6 JANVIER 1962 fixant la liste des actes médicaux ne pouvant être pratiqués que par des médecins ou pouvant être pratiqués également par des auxiliaires médicaux ou par des directeurs de laboratoires d’analyses médicales non médecins

4° Tout acte de physiothérapie aboutissant à la destruction si limitée soit-elle des téguments, et notamment la cryothérapie, l’électrolyse, l’électrocoagulation et la diathermo-coagulation.
5° Tout mode d’épilation, sauf les épilations à la pince ou à la cire.
6° Toute abrasion instrumentale des téguments à l’aide d’un matériel susceptible de provoquer l’effusion de sang (rabotage, meulage, fraisage).

et aussi

Avis de la commission de la sécurité des consommateurs en date du 13 juin 2001 relatif à l’utilisation des lasers (ou autres sources de puissance) dans le domaine de l’esthétique
NOR : ECOC0100324V

L’arrêté du 6 janvier 1962 précise dans son article 2.5 : « Ne peuvent être pratiqués que par les docteurs en médecine, conformément à l’article L. 372-1 du code de la santé publique, les actes médicaux suivants : … tous modes d’épilation sauf les épilations à la cire ou à la pince. »
L’arrêté du 30 janvier 1974 relatif à la réglementation concernant les lasers à usage médical précise dans son article 2 : « Les lasers à usage médical sont des appareils devant être utilisés par un médecin ou sous sa responsabilité. »
Le code de la santé publique définit dans son article L. 665-3 la définition d’un « dispositif médical » :"
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James, I am afraid that the situation for consumers in France has worsened since your stay in the 90s.

That sucks. In my experience, the best laser techs are NOT doctors. Doctors seem to totally suck at laser hair removal. :frowning:

You have chosen the correct word, Magical, most of the French would agree with you. That sucks !!!..

…and an absurd law!!!

Better this way, i hope.

At least I don’t consider my own PhD in Geophysics an obstacle to hair removal. Quite obviously it is also nothing which qualifies me for that job (although sometimes it is quite useful).

The reason (medical) doctors suck at laser hair removal is because they incorrectly assume they are qualified just because of their title. They are also overly cautious and tend to shun aggressive settings. They are also often arrogant when a layperson tries to get information regarding the science behind the procedure or the machine settings.

And god forbid a patient make a SUGGESTION. They will tear you a new one if you tell them they missed a spot or you think they are wrong about hair growth cycles or you’d like to try a different setting. It’s like they think that only people with a medical degree are capable of doing research.

And beate_r, no need to be a smartass, haha. :stuck_out_tongue: In America, it is conventional to refer to medical doctors simply as “doctors”. You knew what I meant.

Not all medical doctors fall into that description. How about a little R-E-S-P-E-C-T, Aretha :slight_smile: :slight_smile: ? What I observe is doctors financing the hair removal operation, but not wanting anything to do with the mundane procedure of removing hair, so they hire someone. Their time is better spent elsewhere practicing medicine and making hundreds of decisions an hour on matters with more importance than hair removal. I know PLENTY of doctors who are kind and caring and if anything, are the ones being abused by Joan Q. Public because she read something on the internet or in Oprah magazine.

I like doctors. I am considering becoming one (I’m technically on a pre-med track with my major). But I hear all the time about how downright mean doctors can be regarding laser hair removal. My own experience with doctors has mirrored the frustrating stories I hear from others.

Do I respect doctors? Plenty. Does that mean they can do laser hair removal just to augment their income without the experience the rest of the laser practitioners (ideally) have? Nope. I will respect the ones who do an awesome job (if/when I meet any). But in the meantime, I will remain wary of any country that requires a medical degree (such as France) to operate all forms of hair removal aside from shaving and waxing. That is just asking for trouble and way way way way too limiting. Because, in my experience, medical doctors just aren’t usually very good at it. Could I be wrong in many cases? Well of course. But if I’m right even a small percentage of the time (and I already know I am in regards to southern cali), then France’s law is just dumb.

EDIT: And I know it’s annoying when people try to diagnose themselves or boss doctors around based on the latest episode of Oprah or whatever. But that doesn’t mean that reasonable and researched dissent isn’t allowed. Doctors aren’t perfect, and it’s your body. Doing legitimate research to empower yourself shouldn’t cause a doctor to disrespect you. He should present facts if he still feels you are in error, but he should never yell or demand that you just trust him.

Well I’m kinda in agreement with MPK.

I’ve always suggested that people research a clinic and its treatment (how was the consultation, which machines, etc etc) rather than just go with one connected to a doctor because they assume they will get better treatment. Outside these forums, I’ve found that people are actually very lazy. Even though they know the risks involved, they can’t be bothered to come to this forum to educate themselves so they can get proper treatment or listen to my advice.

I can’t tell you how many times I have head ‘Oh my derm does hair removal, I’m just going to go there’.

As for the UK, you wouldn’t believe how many doctors who do hair removal use IPL, not Laser. This really does not inspire confidence in me at all.

Many doctors may use IPL because they can only afford one machine and IPL is versatile (it’s used for skin conditions). This may be extra true for dermatologists who gain more money from treating skin conditions. Whereas an actual laser hair removal clinic is more likely to have a laser (or two) that are more appropriate for the task.

That being said, my laser girl is a dermatologist and she is wonderful and tries really hard. She takes my input about settings based on treatments I’ve had before, and she doesn’t argue with me if I tell her she missed a spot.

I don’t think she’s a “doctor”. I was reading the degrees on her wall and I didn’t see one, but I definitely could be wrong. My problem isn’t with dermatologists anyway. I meant actual medical doctors. Like surgeons or general practitioners. I do think that most derms probably have had a lot of laser training and that is all that matters to me. Experience and lack-of-rudeness.

I thought dermatologists were medical doctors? They are in the UK at least.

If I were a consumer, I’d still be wary. I have heard of dermatologists (medical doctor’s) treating patients who have PCOS with LHR. One girl recently asked me for advice because her sister was treated with Laser for acne (by her derm), she ended up with induced growth on her face which the derm then wanted to treat with more Laser!

I think, if you are a medical specialist, you should know more about this sort of stuff and not try to push Laser on people who it is not suitable for.

My point is just that people should do their research and go with whoever seems like they will give the best treatment, doctor, derm or otherwise.

Well, somehow I feel responsible for having started this little debate. Maybe not the right place here, but a French forum, involving the participation of stakeholders, namely physicians and persons suffering from unwanted hair.

Dee, no one intends to offend the medical community. In my case, it is the opposite, I feel the greatest respect and admiration for a doctor who works with me part time. But unfortunately, she is an exception. She reconciles her work as a specialist intensivist with the practice of Electrolysis. Bearing in mind that due to an educational policy absurd doctors in Spain are scarce and must be imported from other countries (especially Latin America), my doctor (whom I love with all my soul) is truly exceptional. She has been a victim of excess hair and found the solution in the Electrolysis in the 90s. Since then, she has dedicated part of their time to help others with the problem.

What is a real sucks is the existence of a law banning physician who is not (even nurses) to practice the exercise of permanent hair removal, Electrolysis or Laser. Relying on the protection of its citizens. However, the French authorities not put obstacles in advertising that uses the word “definitive” to promote progressive hair removal.

I suspect (something I read) that most French doctors consider inappropriate restriction, but it is only my impression.

What have the skin of the French who do not have the skin of the English or German or Spanish? Is it a special skin? no. What they have is a monumental handicap. A handicap that forces them to pay exorbitant figures to remove a few hairs. This is because someone who has no idea where is the hair follicle has decided that belongs to the interior and not, as is right, outside the skin.

For responsible member of the French health:
If the problem is the use of needles, why not require their employers in the textile industry to recruit doctors to make clothes or shoes? French operators could prick them with needles and bleed, no? :confused:

Actually, any kind of doctor would be least likely to have attended the training seminar needed to use the equipment he purchased. Those typically take up a weekend, and from the experience of my friends in the business, and conversations with actual doctors, they are more likely to either send someone to a seminar, or hire someone who can prove she/he has taken one and call it quits. Any instruction the doctor usually has on the machine comes from either the salesman who placed the machine, or the people he has hired to work the machine.

As for your doctor who did LASER for acne and stimulated hair, then wanted to do LHR on the stimulated hair, that is a typical thing. It reminds me of the song “I Know An Old Lady Who Swallowed A Fly”, one thing just leads to another. You see, doctors are often untrained in subjects we assume they are experts. A perfect example is a downward spiral that goes like this:
The doctor prescribes antibiotics (these days they prescribe those for almost anything). The doctor is unaware that the law once REQUIRED that anytime antibiotics were prescribed, they could not be dispensed without PROBIOTICS to keep the balance in the digestive system. The doctor never tells the patient to get probiotics (probably never was taught to do so) and the pharmacist doesn’t either (ditto) and while what ever the person was taking the antibiotics for may clear up (or was something antibiotics does nothing for in the first place, but that is another story) the person’s stomach and intestinal flora is decimated, and natural function has been ruined. This leads to yeast and fungal infections, (and the opportunity to treat new problems) and limits, or impairs the body’s ability to both make, and utilize the B vitamins. When your body is not making, or absorbing enough B vitamins, one develops any number of problems including depression (an opportunity to prescribe Prozac) fertility & vision problems (folate/follic acid are B vitamins) and the list goes on.

Now I am not saying the doctor is purposefully setting people up for failure, that just so happens to guarantee him future business, however, his schooling (which has been directed by those who stand to make the most profit from this type of widespread behavior) has left him knowing no better.

Ask yourself this one question, when did your doctor ever tell you that you had to take a probiotic in addition to the antibiotic he or she prescribed to you? I will even count telling you to eat lots of yogurt and cottage cheese while on the medication for this question. I assure you that what number of you who can say their doctors did give this advice, learned this information reading independently of the curriculum at their schools.

If you want this level of incompetence to become law, just let the medical monopoly become a totally closed system in your country. When there is no one left to tell you about probiotics, and no one left who can sell you probiotics, and it is illegal for you to make your own probiotics, then complications from easily treated illness will be the rule, not the exception.

I agree with much of what you say James.

Off topic:

We actually have an anti antibiotic policy in our house unless they are absolutely required and then as you say, the digestive system must be kept in balance.
We have all the vitamins, minerals, plant extracts that you could think of.

My younger brother was premature and was not developing at a normal rate. The doctors wished to put him on growth hormones. My mother instead focussed on his diet and natural supplements and now he’s a healthy 18 year old. He’s known himself, since a young age, that if he wants a snack, it should be a piece of fruit - not a packet of chips or junk food.
He has mild aspergers and we’re sure that without the diet control, he would have been one of those children with severe adhd as well.

However, despite all this, he has the worst cystic acne in our family. I saw his back the other day (he usually has it completely covered) and I wanted to cry. We have tried everything but nothing seems to work.

It appears that France is another good example of government interfering in matters of business and services that do not or should not concern them. Tell me why electrolysis services should be a function of government beyond licensing? It is amazing how easily citizens give up their freedoms, thinking government knows what is best for them. Here in America, the tanning bed tax has just gone into effect under the new Health Care bill. What’s next? Electrolysis? Laser?

Yes, most doctors are pretty cool. That will change as government demands encroach on their industry as well and we will then most likely see some personality behaviors that will not please the consumer patient.

Stoppit: I think to be a dermatologist you do need a medical degree, if that’s what you’re referring to. But that’s still not the sort of “doctor” I was referring to. I guess I’m having a hard time explaining it. I’m talking about the traditional, non-specialist doctor. The general practitioners. Near me, that’s what we call a “doctor” and any sort of specialist gets referred to more specifically (like “dermatologist” or “oncologist” or “geophysicist” etc…) It may very well be an American convention, or perhaps a southern California one. Or perhaps just my family’s convention. :stuck_out_tongue: Sorry if I confused you.

The girl who does my laser may or may not be an actual dermatologist. She works out of a dermatologists office and at least has a bachelor’s degree and lots of certification, so that’s what I call her. Her name is on the door, so although I didn’t see her medical degree, there is a very good chance she has one. My point was more that I trust her and find her to be a good practitioner.

Sorry for adding fuel to the fire on any sensitive matters. I still think France has gone too far, and I’d be genuinely scared if that happened here. But that’s just me. No offense intended.

Stoppit, I have read a book recently given to me by someon very respectable many years ago and I was very happy to see it had natural remedies for acne. I will type it up and send it to you in case you haven’t tried the two it has mentioned in there. I don’t know how long it will take to see improvements but with normal tablets, the doctors say at least 3 months, this book seems to assume sooner, but I think if you tried it, it probably would work. I’ll get back to you about it (and anyone else who needs it). I am also wanting to try it out myself.

Ok thanks, I hope it’s something we haven’t tried because we have tried pretty much everything.