Multiple Probe Galvanic?

Has anyone ever heard of (or used) a technique called Multiple Probe Galvanic?
I had a consultation last week with an electrolysis in my area who used Multiple Probe Galvanic which I have never heard of before and can’t seem to find anyone talking about on here already. I was basically wondering what the consensus is on this technique as far as its effectiveness.

To explain a little in case anyone is curious her machine had several probes (14 I think) that could be inserted at the same time. She sticks all 14 in, turns on the current, lets the hairs “cook” for a little while, and then begins testing to see which hairs slide out easily. As soon as a hair slides out she rotates that probe to a different follicle and tests another probe, if the hair doesn’t slide out she lets it “cook” longer and goes on to check the next probe. The process seems like it would move fairly quickly once she gets going but I am concerned that some hairs would be getting much more current than is necessary.

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on this technique?

We administer all modalities and techniques however, we use the most modern equipment. Our modern multiple needle enables us to treat each hair individually while 16 leads are working simultaneously. The modern multiple needle machines allow the practitioner to provide a different amount of energy to each of the follicles.

Multiple needle is rarely talked about because it is way too time consuming and takes a long time to get that critical initial clearance. There are advantages to the multiple needle galvanic but overall, in the opinion, it can’t compare to micro flash thermolysis administered by a highly skilled technician.

Although I have learned multi-probe, I have never used it on a paying client and don’t own a multi-probe machine, however, a practitioner that I know and respect does this exclusively, and she says that 100 hairs per hour in Multi-Probe Galvanic would be considered fast. In Blend 100 hairs per hour would be considered slow. In MicroFlash Thermolysis, 100 hairs per hour would be considered a snail’s pace.

I bet Arlene has students at the school who are already doing 100 per hour in Thermolysis.

However, I’ve heard that galvanic has a higher success rate of killing the hair (80-90% compared to 50% for thermolysis). So over the long haul, 100 hairs per hour is comparable to 160 to 180. I know professionals like to reach clearance quickly, but it seems there will be less trauma per hair with galvanic with the higher kill rate. Does this make sense?

Yes this makes sense, just one more question: how high is the kill rate for the blend method compared to the other two? If you had to choose between two equally qualified electrolysis for work along the bikini line and one was using multi-probe galvanic and the other was using blend which one would be the better choice? Ok, so that was two questions but oh well…

This is mixing up different things.

It is not that Galvanic is MORE EFFECTIVE. It used to be thought that it was, but is now proven not to be the case.

It is more the fact that it is easier to get from the point where one is doing lousy galvanic work, to the point where one is doing reliable permanent hair removal with Galvanic.

Blend is more difficult than galvanic to become good at, but no less effective WHEN DONE PROPERLY, and Thermolysis is the most difficult to become good at, but when done properly, is no more, no less effective. It is just the modality that exposes the failings of the practitioner with the least provocation.

The difference is that a bad galvanic operator, and a bad blend operator has the residual lye left in the follicle to continue to treat the follicle even after the probe has been removed and the hair epilated. A bad thermolysis treatment has no residual treatment effect to rescue one’s efficacy rating.

To keep the idea that thermolysis has only a 50% kill rate, one must assume that electrologists never get better at doing what they do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So, the answer to the question about choosing between EQUALLY QUALIFIED electrologists where one does blend and one does galvanic is which ever you want, based on your goals. If you want to know that no matter how well she knows what she is doing, the result is most likely good, though slow, then go with the Galvanic. Just keep in mind, you are paying by the hour and not by the hair. If you want to know that you will get more hairs removed, and therefore get to first clearance sooner, and actually finish faster, then go with either the Blend practitioner or even a Thermolysis practitioner (the fastest clearance). Just make sure the person doing your work knows how to do the modality they are using well.

One advantage I can see is for women like my sister who are of indian/pakistani/bangladesh etc origin and have ultra, ultra sensitive skin. Not always the case, but sometimes the skin is way too sensitive even for modest amounts of any modality. Cue excessive swelling and dark pigmentation patches. (This isn’t always the case, I’m just going on what I’ve experienced and seen. Many asian women have no such problems). With multi-needle you increase the time per hair, which means you can turn down the setting(s) per needle. Having had this done once on my chin I found it far more comfortable than blend or diathermy and not a bit of pigmentation later on. BUT. You definitely need someone who knows what they are doing, and since ametop and emla arrived on the scene there’s a way around such sensitivity with single needle electrolysis (along with icepacks, plenty of those).

Having said that, the 6 needle blend unit from clareblend has me intrigued…

Hi pamd

Gentronics has a 16 probe multi-probe galvanic set-up. It is one unit that can do microflash thermolysis, blend and multi-probe. The rack has to purchased separately as does the air desensitizer option. It is a nice product.

http://www.bworks.com/gentronics/

I own this epilator, but have not used it as of late since I got hooked on another brand three years ago. I’m looking to sell this, but with some hesitation, as it is nice to have an epilator that offers all three modalities. <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif” alt=“” /> With a gentle arm twisting, I would give it up - but am still in the thinking stages.

I liked doing multi-probe, but it is too slow for my clients liking, especially if they can get a first clearance faster with microflash and stay clear until we reach the end. Skin reaction is pretty darn good when one uses the higher-end computerized epilators (in the hands of a skilled electrologist), something all women and men appreciate when receiving electrolysis.

Dee

Hi Pamd,

I understand how intrigued you are by the multiple needle galvanic and even the short lived 6 probe blend. Explore, experiment, do what you feel you need to do but when folks like me and James and Dee, share information with you, take heart. We aint makin a cent off of this advice and I already spent money on these contraptions and if they were better, I assure you the best of us would have them on hand and use them consistantly!

But, if you want a great machine, look at high end newer thermolysis machines that do micro flash and practice your insertions.

I understand your skin type. Even though I am not Pakistani, I probably have more Paki friends and clients than you and your sister put together: I live and work in Pakiland II here in the USA, um, that’s Queens, New York, just in case you didn’t know.

I have treated hundreds of Pakistani’s and not one of them has hyperpigmentation from thermolysis. Its the high end thermolysis equipment with good insertions that makes the difference.

Save your money Pamd, unless of course you can get your hands on a used one cheap, fix it up, cheap, and enjoy being surrounded by electrology artpieces and electrology history.

Good luck and good holiday.

Thank you for your advice Dee and Arlene, it really is nice to be able to talk shop for once (no-one else to do it with here). I have a silhouet-tone vmc, and it pretty much covers everyone I treat. But I’m not kidding when I say some s asian women here really do react badly to it, even when really good electrologists treat them. Also, s asian people where you are get way more sunshine than here so pigmentation shows up worse here (it’s more of a beige dullness than an actual mark, and fades fairly quickly). Whenever family visit from Canada they are always commenting on how pale we look compared to them.

I also think skin bleaching has something to do with it, but it’s really hard to tell if someone has been doing this or not. They certainly don’t own up to it.
The worse thing is that even when they stop using bleaching products the damage has been done.

I do accept the 16 needle model that does just galvanic is too slow for virtually everyone, and the disadvantages outweigh the benefits. I’m not actually interested in buying the 6 needle blend unit since my VMC is doing just fine. Just wondering why there’s so little info about it compared to every other machine.

Just thought I’d mention that I had a chance to try the nova 2000. It was pretty trashed with only 4 probes working but I managed to get it working for a while. It’s kind of like 6 separate machines in one, unlike multi-needle galvanic, and there’s an insertion delay rather than a peddal. I did a small patch on my thigh with blend and I have to say it really does make blend very tolerable and almost painless for coarse hairs. However it’s no quicker if the hair can be epilated in less than about 10 seconds with blend. I can see it as an alternative for those with coarse hair and very low pain thresholds, are allergic to topicals or cannot tolerate microflash etc.

I’m going to throw this one away though as it’s beyond repair and started shocking me after a few hours (!) but if I see a second hand one for a reasonable price I might go for it.

Hi Pam, Arlene, Dee, James, NoHair and MaraJay (and many others here!),

Interesting thread here and some interesting topics have come up here as well. When I was taking my training, the school had a Gentronics 16-probe multiple galvanic machine. As a girl named Julie and I were the two most advanced students at the time, one of our instructors spent a couple of days with us on the use of the machine. As a part of the requirements to qualify for the state boards we had to have a minimum of 25 hours of galvanic practical experience. Julie and I worked on each other using the machine to get those hours, as we figured that it would be better to have two students do this on each other than to subject one of the clinic’s clients to galvanic.

We did find out that it did do a good job of hair removal, be it very slow, and the comfort level was acceptable as we used fairly low currents as there were so many probes to keep track of and manipulate.

I think that the best that either of us did with the machine was on the order of about 90 hairs per hour. (Remember that we only had 25 hours apiece on the machine.)

However, when it came to microflash thermolysis (and PicoFlash - the school did have an Apilus Platinum) both of us were working at well over 400+ hairs per hour with the Senior II, SX-500 and the Platinum.

One of the points that I have come to accept here is that the statement (By James I believe) that thermolysis does require the most precise placement of probes for maximum efficency is absolute gospel. Galvanic does have the benefit of leaving some degree of lye behind, effecting latent destruction of the germanitive tissues, and the blend also does this to a lesser degree. However, once one becomes accustomed to the feel and look of a proper insertion and then begins to work on their speed, thermolysis can give effective kill rates up to 80%+ once an area has been initially cleared and the schedule of treatments is adhered to. This is my opinion based on counts of random hair samples that epilated very easily with an intact inner root sheath and a full, wet juicy bulb.

With regards to pigmentation or localized skin bleaching, it has been my experience, limited as it may be with regards to the other pros here, most of this occurs when too much energy is released too shallow into a follicle. But the deeper that the energy can be released into the hair, and the better the energy level can be adjusted to treat the follicles to the proper degree, the less hyperpigmentation and blanching one will see.

One other thing that I became aware of very early on was that the better I could make my insertions, the better use I could make of the insulated probe types. Right now, I routinely use the Sterex insulated probes and the ProTec Insulated Thermolysis probes on my more sensitive clients and am still able to achieve good epilations with minimal discomfort. One thing of note here. I prefer the ProTec probes as the insulation on them does not tend to collect dried plasma as much and the insulation lasts longer, prior to degrading. However, for treatment times of 1-hour or less the Sterex insulated are a good choice and you get 50 of them for about the same price as 30 of the ProTec. For longer treatments, the ProTecs just seem to hold up much better. One other advantage of the ProTecs. They do have a plastic sheath at the end of the shank that protets the skin from thermolysis damage on shallow angle insertions from shank contact to the skin.

One thing to note here, except for the mid-brow and brow areas, I try to use the largest probe diameter that I can possibly use. This does two things for me. It makes the treated hairs slide out much easier and it reduces the current density during the treatment, reducing the discomfort to the client. With lower temperatures in the heat effected zones, this tends to keep the heating-pattern temperatures more in the thermocoagulation range (127 deg. F to 160 deg F max.) and is much less likely to produce thermodessication and thermolysis blow-out, resulting in blanching, hyperpigmentation, and increased healing times between treatments.

I guess that my main focus in learning electrology was to keep myself from inflicting a lot of the things on others that happened to me prior to becoming trained myself. I am not a wuss when it comes to pain, but I neither enjoy receiving it unnessarily or inflicting said-same on others.

Anyway, that’s my $0.02 worth. I’d like to thank everyone here for the information that they have been imparting to this forum. I know that none of you are getting anything for your efforts - as I certainly haven’t reaped any financial benefits for all of my posting. I have enjoyed reading your posts and have learned a lot - and I hope I’ve been able to give something back as well. I really love doing electrology and I am especially happy when I can give a client the best I possibly can. You have all given me food for thought and leads to more knowlege of things that were not covered when I was being trained. This has allowed me to improve my practice of the art and science of electrology. I love it when clients leave my practice with smiles on their face after a treatment!

My best to all,
Joanie

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

1 Like

James, how long would it take you to do an upper lip?

Your question is a little too open ended for me to properly reply. Could you give me some parameters?

My fastest upper lip first clearance was 15 minutes, fastest total permanent removal was 60 minutes spread out over 12 months. Both those were on women. (Hard to stay in business at that rate) My toughest upper lip clearances were on men, and therefore would bear no resemblence to work done on women. (But you ladies should thank the men, because I would not have time for you, were it not for them)

I have cleared upper lips in under a year but then there are those who take 2 years especially when one has extensive growth and wants those itsy bitsy tiny white hairs all gone. Most of us electrologists do not want to work contiguous hairs in such a small area.

http://www.hairtell.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=17481&page=0&vc=1#Post17481

I have cleared upper lips in under a year but then there are those who take 2 years especially when one has extensive growth and wants those itsy bitsy tiny white hairs all gone. Most of us electrologists do not want to work contiguous hairs in such a small area.

Are you trying to say that there are people who would require 2 years no matter what treatment schedule they followed?

I work on many, many upper lips and it has never taken me two years to complete this area if the client cooperates and comes in when I advise. I’m even talking about the hard core waxers for twenty years with lots of stimulated hair. They are well on their way in a year or less.

Why would it ever take two years? Just curious?

Hi Dee,

One of the things that I’ve heard, and I’m afraid that this is anecdotal in nature, is that some of the hairs that have been waxed or tweezed will sometimes stay dormant for a longer time before regrowth. Like a lot of things that I’ve heard, I have been trying to get more information, but have not yet found anything to substantiate or refute this. I lean more towards clinical data than the anecdotal information.

Anyone heard anything about this or have any information on studies done on this matter?

All the best,
Joanie

P.S. Went to the Skin and Body Care show in San Francisco with Lisa Stephens, CPE today. We had a wonderful time. I ran into a couple of my instructors at the Dectro Booth. We never realized how many skin care products were out there - and how many quack things are out there to boot! Worth going through the show if you have time tomorrow. Lots of really good cosmetics and aesthetician products along with some very good sources for supplies and equipment. I also ran into my aesthetician there as well. Small world!

Joanie

Are you trying to say that there are people who would require 2 years no matter what treatment schedule they followed?

There was no mention of treatment schedule. Treatment schedule is one of many variables but you know that.

For those of you who can get full clearance more quickly, that is ideal however the upper lip is one of those areas where most teachers and manufacturers reccommend just 15 minute appointments. For those of you who can not schedule your appointments as frequently for whatever reason, you will still be on your way to permanent hair removal, your overall treatment time will just be longer.

Regarding insulated probes, a brand I really love is Velona which is distributed by Depileve (I order them from www.smartbuy-catalogue.com). The coating is black so that degradation is easy to see, and it’s a one piece needle which I prefer.