Most effective permanent hair removal?

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Here’s a bit of background info. I’m 18, and I’ve had excess hair on my arms and legs for as long as I can remember, and due to being bullied about it as a young girl, I now have a pretty bad complex about the way it looks. I am of mixed race, with an English dad and a Spanish mom. I no longer tan that easily, and the hair on my body is dark around my lower back and stomach. My arms and legs have coarse hair, but everywhere else it is fine. I’m interested in hair removal on the legs, underarms, face (upper lip, sideburns) and arms. Sorry in advance if this is a long post :blush:

My mom bought one of those home hair removal machines for us, the ones with supposedly electric pads (I have no idea what its called, sorry), and she says that it works, and I may use it on my face if I want. However, browsing your website, you don’t recommend those, and I personally have never used it. My mom has coarse, grey and blonde hair on her chin and upper lip. She went to a beautician for months having some kind of laser treatment to remove the hair, but the beautician never told her that it actually didn’t work on blonde or grey hair, so she wasted a lot of money on that. We’re kinda apprehensive about being burned like that again, so I thought it best to get some decent info first.

My mom is offering to pay for me to have whatever kind of treatment I need. I currently live in England, but I intend to leave in a year, and study abroad, hopefully in the US, and I have no idea of what kind of treatment will be available to me. I am realistic, and I know that I probably won’t be able to be permanently rid of the hair in just a year. So, what are the most common and effective treatments currently available? What works in the quickest time frame? Due to the large surface area I need hair removed from, I think electrolysis will be too time consuming, but I don’t know if light or laser is best.

I read recently that Epilight is certified as removing hair permanently, but after searching your forums, it doesnt seem that it is too successful? The threads I could find were a couple of years old though, so any new information would be appreciated.

Any information that could help me will be really helpful. Also, is there any kind of treatment that works on coarse grey/blonde hair? I would like to be able to recommend something to my mom too, as I think she is wasting her time every night with those pads.

#2

Hi, and welcome to the site.

TBH - there are lots of different forms. But really the best form is the client doing what is best for them and committing to it.
It is great that you are realistic in understanding that you are unlikely to attain a permanent removal (no one has worked out how to treat hair that is yet to grow - and we all have a life times worth of hair to grow yet) but once you start a treatment - you will be able to get a better result if you have ‘regular’ treatments. You will never be able to get it all done in under 2 treatments - it is often numerous treatments - so keep an open mind about it all.
Each of us have different reactions to different things, no two people are alike - even relations. There is no quick fix for getting rid of it all forever.
I have had treatments with the ruby lasers and had excellent results! But that is over a period of time.
For the coarse grey/blonde hairs - find an experienced electrologist.

Good Luck with it all!

#3

She is wasting her time with those pads. Tell her to put them in the can and get on with something that actually works. Electrolysis is THE option, THE only option for her light and dark chin hairs. The hard part is finding a skilled electrologist to destroy those hairs. If she can get recommendations for good electrologists in her locale, that would be excellent. Be sure to tell your mom to read hairtell.

As for your hair problem, you may be a good prospect for laser for some areas that have coarse, dark hair. I would do electrolysis on your facial areas and laser on certain body areas where the hair is coarse. lagirl can help you out further, but a combination of laser and electrolysis sounds like the quickest way to reach your hair removal goals.

Do you have any pictures you can post?

Dee

#4

Thanks for your replies.

Arms:
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9591/arm1sx0.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8178/arm2xy4.jpg

As you can see, the hair on my arms is pretty long, it doesn’t seem to stop growing. I used to bleach them regularly, but I don’t bother anymore. I tend to just trim them as I am really hoping to get them lasered soon. I haven’t trimmed them in a while, but as we’re just coming into spring and I’m going to have to start wearing T-shirts, I’ll have to do that soon.

Leg:
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7484/leg1bk3.jpg

They’re pretty sparse in some areas on my legs these days, I have only ever shaved my legs, and have done so for about 7 years. On the front of my leg there seem to be small patches where there are no hairs growing.

The hairs on my face aren’t very visible at the moment, so a picture would be misleading, as I bleach them and use a tanning moisturiser to try to make it less obvious. I don’t use any sunbeds or anything, but naturally I am very pale (haven’t had a decent holiday in 3 years!) and I find when I am paler, the hair is far more obvious. Just out of curiosity, when you have had laser removal/electrolysis on your face and skin, are you unable to use certain types of cosmetics or perfumes? Would the skin be too sensitive or anything? I know that you’re meant to use sunblock.

My mom is using the “Finally Free” system. She insists that the hair does come out, but I know the effects are not remotely permanent. I’ll try to persuade her to look into electrolysis but she’s never been one to spend money on herself so that may be difficult :slight_smile:

Again, thanks for all the help.

#5

hi, and welcome to the forum. a few things i’ll note:

  1. You are still only 18, so be aware that you might develop more new hair in the next 5-7 years still. Just something to consider, so that you don’t feel like you’re not getting results at all once you start the process.

  2. if that picture is your upper arm, i think the hair is still somewhat fine. it’s hard to tell. given that your skin is also not very light, i would say you need electrolysis for upper arms and face, and laser for underarms and legs. i think your lower arms looks pretty natural. i guess you can reduce the density with electrolysis or laser a bit.

  3. please read the FAQs and the electrolysis part of the forum carefully so you can learn all you can about what to expect and what is the best way to get results. www.hairremovalforum.com/faq.cfm

  4. as everyone else said above, this home machine doesn’t work and won’t produce any permanent results for you or your mom. everyone on these forums would be using a $100 machine if it actually worked instead of spending much more on professional treatments.

#6

Both the arm pictures are of my lower right arm, and my skin looks darker because I use tanning lotion. I’m actually quite pale :slight_smile: The pictures were taken in bad light. It looks quite fine because of the length of it, but when it’s trimmed, it’s spiky and coarse.

I thought the machine she was using was a con, there’s a whole bunch of them around in mail-order magazines and whatnot. I’ve spoken to her about it and she realises now there won’t be permanent results from it. Her beautician where she previously was getting treatment from did not tell her that the system she was using doesn’t work on blonde or grey hair. She’s looking into electrolysis now.

#7

in that case, you can go for electrolysis or laser to get a reduction on the arms. however, only electrolysis for face please.

#8

first of all “permanent hair removal” is a misnomer. it doesn’t exist. the best you can achieve is “permanent hair reduction”

google “permanent” and “laser hair removal”. check out the FDA website on it. it’s explained that “permanent hair removal” is not legally allowed to be advertised in the US.

Furthermore, the use of the word “permanent” (as in “permanent hair REDUCTION”) does not really mean permanent. permanent means that the hair will stop growing for a period of time “equal to or greater than the natural growth cycle.”

in other words “permanent” means the lasered hair will stop/slow growth for a few months-a few years.

this is really a reduction in hair as well. meaning that some hairs in the treated area will continue to grow as normal, i.e., dark and thick. some will stop altogether, and some will be finer and lighter. if you’re lucky . . .

#9

you should also add that that’s your personal interpretation based on your personal experience.

#10

I am currently on a break checking email and browsing the web while at the 2007 ASLMS conference. This is the preeminant laser conference in the world. There is a talk tomorrow where someone has gone back and looked at the results of laser hair removal as far back as 8.5 years and the results confirm that the permanent reduction of laser hair removal has been stable in 90% of their clients. Average number of treatments was 3 per site (that isn’t really enough) and average length of time is 3.5 years. (abstract can be found in “Lasers in Surgery and Medicine” Journal of the ASLMS, Supplement 19, 2007, #94) This is well in keeping with my own data which goes back almost 10 years.

The FDA representative is at this conference and gave the keynote. It was kind of boring. But the bottom line is that what the FDA allows is really not in keeping with reality. There are laser technologies that the FDA allow that are completely worthless and there is stuff that the FDA doesn’t allow to be marketed, which is completely true. What the FDA rep said was that all they really care about is safety. Marketing isn’t that imporant and they don’t put much effort into it so they lean on the side of being conservative.

The point is that I’m sorry that laser hair removal didn’t work for you. But it does work if the people doing the treatment know what they are doing.

#11

err. everyones opinion on here is based on personal experience.

the real problem is that whenever someone says something against laser hair removal, they get reprimanded.

claims of 90 percent effectiveness is not in line with any clinical studies. none.

but of course a person might say that if they only choose to acknowledge positive results and data. and reprimand and ignore bad ones.

i understand everyone wants a perfect technology. people getting laser want to be hairless. but its not right to ignore the whole truth.

i agree the fda is primarily concerned with safety. but that has little to do with the “permanence” of laser hair removal.

#12

noone here ever says LHR is 100% effective in all cases. there are way too many variables and way too many people who don’t know what they’re doing performing it for this to be the case. what IS said is that in the right hands when done on an area and type of hair that it’s meant for and with effective machine and settings, it does produce permanent destruction of hair follicles with heat (which is what electrolysis does on a hair by hair level). for all intensive purposes, this is what is stated above. what can happen if all required factors are not met and/or it happens to be a non-responder case (very small percentage and the reason is really due to unknown factors at this point) is a different discussion altogether that’s been done here many times before. And this “but” is never hidden here. It’s right there in the FAQs as well.

#13

Jimmyjames is correct in this. His statements concerning ‘permanent reduction’ are correct. It is only for one hair cycle that this applies. And only one laser has ever been given the right to use that term. So now there are completely different wavelength lasers and flashlamps trying to cash in on the marginal success of one unit, that was never really measured for true permanence.

The FDA has a role to protect the American people, but not limit their rights unfairly. If something is benign and somebody wants to use it, or sell it, the FDA see’s no harm allowing it. This is correct. Modern science knows most of these lasers have no ability to work, but if people want to pay their hard earned cash to a scam, this is America, they have a right to. Kind of like when Jerry Falwell says he’ll pray for you if you send him $2,000 a year. People do it.

Mantaray

#14

however, only electrolysis for face please. [/quote]

Out of curiosity as well as hidden intention, why do you suggest electrolysis on face “please”.

#15

You’re not being reprimanded because you say something against laser hair removal, you are being reprimanded by me, because you don’t know what you are talking about. There are plenty of studies that show the permanence of laser hair removal. Plus there is plenty of data about it. You just have to know where to look. No one says it’s perfect. Nothing is. But it does provide long term permanance. Go read the abstract I quoted and call the researcher if you want. But quit spreading misleading statements based on your rather limited experience.

Say it “it didn’t work for me.” That’s fine and fair. But don’t say it doesn’t work for other people when you don’t know.

And if you want to put your money where your mouth is, come to San Antonio. I’ll be glad to introduce you to plenty of people who have had complete permanent removal of hair for years.

#16

Your comment here is wrong in so many ways that it isn’t worth pointing them out. I’m kind of tired of it.

Same offer to you as to Jimmyjames. Come visit San Antonio, I’ll show you effective permanent laser hair removal.

#17

maybe by 90 percent effectiveness we have a difference of terms?

FROM A PRACTIONER’S PERSPECTIVE:

  1. laser is effective in getting a person’s money 90 percent of the time.
  2. the person gets some hair reduction 90 percent of the time.
  3. the hair reduction lasts at least a month 90 percent of the time.
  4. they never see the patient again 90 percent of the time.
  5. they assert laser was effective for patient 90 percent of the time.

FROM A PATIENTS PERSPECTIVE:

  1. the reduction is not uniform (patchiness) 90 percent of the time.
  2. the reduction is not consistent from treatment to treatment 90 percent of the time.
  3. the reduction is not “permanent” 100 percent of the time.
  4. there are other complications side effects (pain, pigmentation, irritation, time, money) to be considered 100 percent of the time.
  5. laser is not worth it. they get fed up with pain, time, money, side effects, poor results. they realize its a painful ongoing treatment for life. so they stop going 90 percent of the time.

I think a disclaimer needs to go on every laser hair removal ad–just like on a pack of cigarettes. underneath that glossy photo of hairless skin it should give people a warning of what “permanent” means.

#18

Thermolysis destroys the hair growing cells via heat from the liquid to vapor transition of the moisture of the follicle. Galvanic and Blend utilize a chemical reaction created by the electrolytic process changing salt water into lye hydrogen and oxygen.

Both research and my experience show that socalled electrolysis “non-responders” are actually those who have either ineffective practitioners or those who don’t get enough hours or enough frequency of visits to get full effective treatment.

#19

James, I didn’t want to go into details that we’ve discussed many times before, but to add to those that you pointed out there are of course things like underlying medical conditions and other things that cause NEW hair to grow among many others like settings and machines used, which make it pretty difficult to determine what went wrong. Like you said, there is usually a reason if one really starts looking into each individual case.

haryoz, electrolysis is recommended for women’s faces especially if you have darker skin and finer hair, and not that much of it. Laser works best on light skin and dark coarse hair.

#20

I would say the exact same thing for laser hair removal. Non-responders (assuming that they are otherwise appropriate candidates) are actually those who have either ineffective practitioners or those who are treated on a laser that is not capable of treating them.

Given the simularities of electrolysis and laser hair removal and that they target the same hair, it is not surprising that this is also similar.