Hi Josh
I second your view and I have mentioned it before myself. We are no longer primative humans who require hair for warmth. There is also no way I would grow a long beard “for God”. He is not worried about what you shave. Go ahead and give your legs a good shave - this will finish the job you started with trimming.
Regards
Stuart
Well, as I said I might try it again. I’ll see since I’m going to be inside a gift shop, I won’t run into as many people as I did right out on the midway. At this point my legs look decent, they’re pretty white now, cause no sunshine to tan them. I’ve got a little hair on my legs, but it’s almost invisable.
Hi Stuart,
Thanks for your comments on your trip to Florida. It’s interesting that elderly people didn’t take notice or care but the case of the computer store clerk was kinda weird. It’s strange that another man would be focused on your legs–maybe, the best thing to do in such a situation is to embarass them for staring by using the “sorry, I only date women” line!
I don’t think men’s leg shaving is really mainstream in the US. The mere fact that people noticed or seemed interested with you or Mantaray’s experience in the drugstore shows that people are surprised when they see a man with smooth legs. As you mentioned in an earlier message, teenage parent’s might be “shocked or worried” if their son wanted to shave his legs. I really think that some commericals on TV or some ads in men’s health or fashion magazines could do a lot to promote the smooth look. Perhaps then, people really wouldn’t be surprised if they see a man with smooth legs or if their sons wanted to shave their legs! I hope that this day isn’t too far off in the future when being smooth is more accepted and men don’t have to deal with such idiots as the ones that Josh wrote about earlier.
Josh, I can relate to feelings of being overly self-conscious when around a bunch of people. You mentioned that you might try shaving again because you’ll be working in the gift shop and not many people would see your legs–you’re doing nothing wrong and you don’t need to hide your smooth legs! We’re not hurting anybody–I just wish people wouldn’t be so stupid and judgmental. Honestly, the world would be a pretty boring place if we all looked the same, acted the same and had the same opinions! For what it’s worth, let’s try to be individuals and do what makes us happy!
I don’t know if you guys read my earlier msg about men dyeing their gray hair–any comments or observations on that?
Take care,
smoothlover
Hi Smoothlover
Yes the computer store clerk was a bit strange, but for some reason I did not get the impression he was gay. After awhile he stopped looking when I started discussing computer specs with him in some detail. I think he was more shocked and surprised to see a “non bodybuilder” who also shaved. I also get the impression (not just from Florida but also several other states) that shaving is not mainstream US yet.
In Johannesburg the cyclists started it, then it spread to the teens and now many guys do it, I think, just for the athletic look. I think it will catch where the weather is warm first and sports like cycling are popular. Ultimatly I do think it is the trend of the future, but it is a “new generation” thing and may take some time to become mainstream.
Regards
Stuart
“I don’t know if you guys read my earlier msg about men dyeing their gray hair–any comments or observations on that?”
I’m sure quite a few older men dye their hair or use “Grecian Formula.” Lots of people, probably thousands or tends of thousands, mocked Ronald Reagan for dyeing his hair and it didn’t bother him one bit!
The guy who made the comments about men coloring their hair is an idiot plain and simple. If he made that comment in front of me I would probably just laugh at him for being such an idiot! But he probably wouldn’t get it anyway.
RJC2001
Hi RJC
One of our famous TV presenters here wears a wig as he is completely bald. Nobody knew for years until he admitted it in a magazine article some years ago. He was mocked for years after that by the same sort of idiots. Now he still presents with his wig and all the comments have just dried up. This is much the same thing I think.
Regards
Stuart
Hi RJC and Stuart!
Thanks for your comments! Yes, Reagan is a good example of men dyeing their hair, as is Dick Clark. I believe Reagan was around 70 when he first ran for president and perhaps, his dyed hair made he seem more “youthful” to the public and helped him win the presidency but others chose to mock him. While in Germany, I remember the tabloids running front page articles about whether Schroeder dyed his hair. It really is sad and stupid that the public made such a fuss over one’s personal preference. I also remember reading a story about a man who had undergone chemotherapy and wanted the German National Health System to pay for his wig–they ruled that “it isn’t necessary for men to wear wigs to hide their baldness,” and refused to pay the bill for his wig. That seemed very sexist against men and callous to me, especially after he had undergone the emotional and physical trauma of cancer treatment.
I’ve been thinking about where some of these prejudices about men’s grooming and body shaving come from and it’s lead me to the following conclusion (for now). A lot has changed in terms of traditional gender roles but it usually applies to women entering traditionally “male professions.” More and more women are the heads of companies and they’re becoming presidents and prime ministers and this is hailed as a success. There are even women race-car drivers and taxi drivers and this is seen as a great accomplishment for equality. However, the opposite doesn’t really hold true for men–men who become nurses, librarians, primary school teachers or who choose to stay at home to look after the kids because their wife earns more, are often seen as “losers, weak, or not real men”. Men who enter these professions often have to fight against a lot of prejudices and ridicule from their peers or families which is sad.
So what’s the relationship between this and personal grooming? Well, it’s more accepted these days for men to take better care of themselves but there still exists a lot of really outdated stupid ideas about what a “real man” is supposed to do. It’s okay for women to be “tougher” but men are often laughed at for being “sensitive”, even though a lot of women claim they want a man who’s sensitive. Where does this come from??? Is it just pure ignorance or some men’s insecurity about themselves that they might have to start shaving their chests, legs and lose that pot-belly? To “overcome” that insecurity, they might lash out at other men who body shave or dye their hair and label them “soft or gay”.
Just a quick question before I finish this up–do you think it’s mainly men or women who are more critical of men who body shave and take better care of themselves? If it’s women, what do you think the reason for this criticism is–outdated stereotypes that men should be hairy and not care about their appearance or something entirely different???
Regards,
smoothlover
I’ve heard some women say they like their guys to be hairy, while others like smooth guys. I think it’s mostly a preference with women. I dated girls who liked the fact that I was’nt a really hairy guy. If I wore shorts, most of the time they’d notice the hair on my legs, and tell me it was just right. Now when I shaved my legs, since I’m married, my wife said it did’nt matter to her either way. She told me it was my body, and to do with it the way I wanted it. It’s the public in the midwest that does’nt agree with guys shaving their legs. I found that out, when I went to work last summer. Many people, (mainly guys) made very rude comments about my legs. I decided that it was’nt worth being humiliated. I trim my legs now, so that there’s still a slight amount of hair on my legs. I guess as long as there’s some kind of hair on a guy’s legs, then he’s OK. I liked the shaved look, but I’ll take the look I’ve got now, cause at least I no longer have an amount of hair on my legs that I don’t like. I find that more women would rather see a guy have some kind of hair on his legs. I spoke to a few girls who said, if a guy shaves his legs, they’de feel strange about dating him. I don’t think there’s anything wrong if a guy wants to take the hair completely off his legs. It’s a personal choice, and NO ONE should treat you with disrespect if you do shave your legs!
I’ve heard some women say they like their guys to be hairy, while others like smooth guys. I think it’s mostly a preference with women. I dated girls who liked the fact that I was’nt a really hairy guy. If I wore shorts, most of the time they’d notice the hair on my legs, and tell me it was just right. Now when I shaved my legs, since I’m married, my wife said it did’nt matter to her either way. She told me it was my body, and to do with it the way I wanted it. It’s the public in the midwest that does’nt agree with guys shaving their legs. I found that out, when I went to work last summer. Many people, (mainly guys) made very rude comments about my legs. I decided that it was’nt worth being humiliated. I trim my legs now, so that there’s still a slight amount of hair on my legs. I guess as long as there’s some kind of hair on a guy’s legs, then he’s OK. I liked the shaved look, but I’ll take the look I’ve got now, cause at least I no longer have an amount of hair on my legs that I don’t like. I find that more women would rather see a guy have some kind of hair on his legs. I spoke to a few girls who said, if a guy shaves his legs, they’de feel strange about dating him. I don’t think there’s anything wrong if a guy wants to take the hair completely off his legs. It’s a personal choice, and NO ONE should treat you with disrespect if you do shave your legs!
I used to live in Northern Ohio, and I doubt what you experienced there is widespread in the Midwest. For some reason people in northern Ohio are more rude than other areas of the midwest. Why? I have no idea. When I moved to Dayton I found that people were more friendly. There is a lot of rednecks in the area, and the vast majority of them don’t really care if guys shave their bodies or not. I don’t mean redneck as an insult, to me it means rural southern type people. I comment on this not to start a regional war. Some may have a hard time believing that people would be so rude. But being from northern Ohio, I can vouch for what you say. I used to be rude sometimes too LOL! If I lived there and ran into the things that you did yes, there would have been some confrontations and maybe some fights. But that is usually not the best response. In the end Mantaray is right. It is better to ignore and not respond. But if I’m threatened all bets are off! Of course not everyone in northern Ohio is rude, but I think one is more likely to run into rude people there. Just try driving there some time.
The way I see it, if somebody makes fun of body hair shaving, if I were to give it up because of that, then I am admitting that they are right. That means they win. No way I’m going to do that!
I don’t think there is a clear preference among women for shaved legs or hairy legs. Some like it, some don’t, and some don’t care.
RJC2001
Eh, even though I shave my legs, I don’t really like wearing shorts in public and such. Although I do sometimes wear shorts in the house, I think my mom has noticed my legs a few times. But she didn’t really comment on them. I don’t know how she would react. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
And you say that some girls like hairless guys? That’s a good thing, at least to me it is. I’d love to have my hairless legs rub up against a girl’s, and etc. >_>
Hi:
This is in response to Smoothlover’s comments regarding
the differences between men and women.
Women do take on more nontraditional roles these days, and aspire to be something other than housewives. But, they had to fight for those rights, even the right to vote. Women were looked down upon for wearing slacks at one time.
Men used to say a women’s place is in the kitchen, or having babies or whatever. Then came womens lib and some brave women, and they were really put down for standing up for their rights.
If you want to shave your legs or be well groomed then go right ahead, there is no one stopping you except a possibly rude comment or two. If you are not gay, then you are not gay or soft or whatever. You have to stand up for your rights just as women have had to in order to get out of non traditional roles.
Stand up for your rights.
Alicia
Excellant response Aliciadarling
Akram, you should’nt hide your legs, you should show them off. I don’t think your mom will even care if you shave your legs. If you live in an area that is more accepting of guys shaving their legs, then you need to wear shorts. I’m not in an area that will accept guys with shaved legs. I just trim mine, so there’s still some hair on my legs. I know I should’nt let the comments of others influence my decision not to go all the way and shave my legs. It’s just easier for me to go half way, and just keep them trimmed. My cousin is a wrestler, and I’ve seen guys who shave their legs. They do that so their legs are slippery, and the other guy can’t get a good grip on them. You see I guess if you got hairy legs when wrestling, then the other guy can get a better grip on hairy legs, than smooth ones. I’d never think of teasing those guys who shave their legs for wrestling. I just can’t understand why, if a guy shaves for no sport, then he’s got to be gay, or wierd.
Here is my take on women’s reactions to seeing guys with smooth legs:
I don’t think the majority of women care to see a guy with shaved legs for two reasons: it is a stereotypical female activity and a lot of them probably feel threatened to know that a guy is also involved in this activity. In other words, a man is now competing with these women in order to show off their smooth legs. He has moved onto their territory. Also, we have to think back to the reason why women shave their legs. They shave to feel sexy and effeminate. Many guys do not shave to feel sexy, but for the look and comfort. Even though women complain about shaving, they will never stop because of these reasons. Another similar example is high heels. Lots of women complain about wearing high heels all day long. However, they will never stop wearing them b/c it accentuates their legs and a$$. They will wear them for these reasons (plus I agree-nothing like seeing a beautiful woman’s legs in 3 inch black sandals). I seriously doubt that shoe manufacturers will start making high heels for men. Even if they do, I’ll bet that the majority of women would be strictly against the idea of men wearing high heels (for reasons of territorialism).
To you guys that are currently shaving your legs, I have a great amount of respect for all of you. You are all undertaking an activity that is still not accept among a good percentage of the general population. We have to find ways to spread the word about male body shaving. These ways include writing letters to razor companies (put out new products for men when shaving body parts), have male models with the completely smooth look in popular magazines and tv shows, and other tactics as well. Once these things happen, male body shaving will become more mainstream and more generally accepted.
Have a nice day everyone!!
Hi Everyone!
Everybody’s mentioned some very good points and I’ll try to comment on a few of them. Alicia, you’re absolutely right that women had a long and hard fight for equal rights and are still fighting that battle but I don’t think that we’re going to see any kind of “movement” for men with smooth legs or bodies! I think the majority of men who do shave their legs, probably wouldn’t want to draw attention to themselves–the same probably holds true for men who enter traditionally “female” jobs–they just quietly go about their ways and don’t really attract public attention. Italianguy, you brought up some excellent points–the only way that I think the general public will become more accepting is for the media to feature more men with smooth legs or for Philips/Remington to run commericals which show men shaving their legs and getting positive comments from women–once the public is bombarded with this, it will become more mainstream.
Before moving to Europe, I also lived in NW Ohio and I could agree with you that people can be rude there but after living abroad, “rudeness” has taken on a new meaning. Customer service and other civilities really don’t exist in the North American sense of the word but many Europeans would say that American “friendliness” is false and driven by the sense of getting a tip. If they don’t like you or don’t like their job, they won’t try to be courteous to you–this is kinda weird because they also depend on tips, albeit less than their American counter-parts.
One thing that really gets to me though is that people tend to stare more in Europe and especially, in Poland. The population is pretty homogenous here and men do have certain facial characteristics, so if you look a bit “different,” people might look at you in curiosity or disdain–in Poland, this is largely due to historic reasons and the suffering caused by foreign powers.
Shaving legs probably draws more attention to yourself–I would agee with Josh that it’s mainly men who make rude comments–I don’t know if they have some kind of “radar” and can single out men with smooth legs but it’s truly disturbing. Poland is generally a traditional Catholic country and intolerant of homosexuals–there have been some ugly gay bashings by groups of young thugs who consider themselves to be “patriots” and “defenders of morality” and they got away with very light sentences. These groups are also racist and xenophobic and aren’t too picky about their targets. This worries me a lot–these guys could bash someone for looking “gay or foreign”–I wouldn’t want to run into a group of them in a park or anywhere for that matter! Fortunately, this has never happened but some middle-aged men made a few disparging comments while I was walking in a park once last summer. Another time, a woman on the beach pointed towards me (I think she was telling her husband that she saw a man with smooth legs because he turned around and stared at me). I also let my leg hairs “grow out” a bit and had the “trimmed” look that Josh wrote about, but I guess it looked “trimmed” and I remember a mixed group laughing at me once while wearing shorts.
Alicia, RJC and everyone else is right that one should live their lives the way you want (and not let such jokers dictate what you do) but I don’t know why we have to contend with such pig-headedness and intolerance. It is the 21st century after all and people should have better things to do then look and make rude comments about the amount of hair on a man’s legs! It’s really strange that men with smooth legs would draw so much attention–I don’t know if people (other men) are really looking at each other’s legs, or if it just registers unconsciously with them. What do the rest of you think???
Regards,
smoothlover
AfterI had my underarm hair removed by electrolysis,I began noticing other mens underarms to see if the were also removing their hair or if it was becoming a trend. I suppose if one shaves his leg hair,he might be observing if others were doing the same. However,I never noticed that others were paying anymore attention to my underarms after removing the hair than before.Therefore,how do you know others are looking at your legs more after shaving than before.
Hi Smoothlover:
Speaking from my own perspective, I had to get over caring what people thought of me in order to be myself. That was hard at times and I went through some of the same things you have to as far as people noticing that I was different than what they considered normal.
But, being normal for some of us would mean conforming
to be something we are not, or something that is expected of us even if that is not something we are comfortable with. In other words we would all be bland, boring, run of the mill.
I had to have the courage to face a world where I would be seen as either gay or a freak due to public misunderstanding and prejudices. In spite of womens lib, women are still looked down on as weaker or inferior by some men. Someone who is changing their physical gender to become what they have felt inside all their life is seen
as an easy target for those hypocritical types who feel they are superior. It makes them feel superior to make someone else appear inferior. In reality it just shows their lack of intelligence and insensitivity. It makes them inferior.
I know it is hard sometimes to have to face idiots who may smirk or even comment about your legs, but consider the source of the comments. Haven’t we given in to bullies for too long? Don’t let them win!
Alicia
Hi Smoothlover
Well everyone has made good comments that I agree with. My only contribution is that there is definitely a phychological aspect to shaving your legs as well. This is an internal mechanism which defines your confidence. This is really what I mean when I say the smooth look should be viewed as the way you are, and that this is normal. I found that once I was able to make this switch in my mind much fewer people looked at my legs. I think that if you subconsciously project your confidence it removes many obstacles. Today nobody even looks at my legs, but if I have a haircut everyone notices - strange but true.
Regards
Stuart
Stuart, earlier you said that you wax your arms, right? Well, why not do the same for your legs? I’ve really been thinking about waxing my legs. Shaving is getting annoying.
Hi Akram
No actually I don’t wax at all. My arm hair is light and fine so I don’t need to do much there. I have tried waxing my legs, but found it only effective for a week and quite time consuming compared to shaving.
Regards
Stuart