Lightsheer Duet - chest/stomach thinning

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hi All!

I have currently had success with the use of the Lightsheer Duet for male back and am considering having it done on my chest/stomach a few times to thin out the hair but still have a natural look. I do not want complete removal.

I am looking to see if anyone out there has any stories (success or not) or direct experience they could share with respet to what I am considering. Pictures would be very much appreciated as I am not sure what I will get.

I am olive skin (mediterranean decent) dark hair, so really good candidate for hair removal.

Thanks all!!

#2

I did my first full body treatment this week, and they treated my stomach/abdomen area with the duet, using 9.5 to 10 joules. It’s hard to tell but I intend on having at least 9 more treatments so I’ll let you know, and perhaps post some photos too.

I also have olive skin (Asian). I’ll keep you posted.

#3

Hello to you both! Guys, pls keep me posted too- id really like to know how the DUET worked on you----- i for one was very skeptical of the DUET just because there are few people to report their results 6 months post 5/6 treatments. Im also giving up LHR being a 30 yr male because our hormones control hair growth and its hard to get a good clearance without lifelong maintenance. Also, what happens if we are 40 and start seeing white hair grow on our bodies? Lasers dont do anything for white hair- and also think about all that skin damage putting your skin through all those electric currents over and over again- almost 2wice a year to get touch ups.

So im leaning towards spending my time & money on electrolysis - getting mega sessions of 8hrs per day - at least i know for sure, that electrolysis is permanent unlike LHR. I just dont want to spend my limited $$$$ on LHR only to realize a year later that i lost my money.

For women its OK i think, their hormones are different- im going to go in for electrolysis though at some point when i can afford it-

Thanks.

#4

1 more question if you dont mind: How much are you paying for each of these sessions? Also, is each session for all body parts-? just trying to guage how much you are paying-

#5

Why do people keep believing these lies? There are hundreds of cases of people throwing away a ton of money on poor electrolysis treatments and there are hundreds of cases of people having success with laser, and vice versa. You need to do more research before you start passing statements like that as fact.

#6

i got a package deal of 1260$+taxes for unlimited treatments until 5-10% hair left (no time limit… i hope they dont close down) for the following body parts: stomach, both full legs, brazilian, armpits, chin/lips and the unibrow area lol

#7

Thanks Montrealer.

Breton: Easy on the tone, please! We are here to help one another not to mock, accuse or make fun of anyone! My research is based on reading up on LHR & Electrolysis for a long time now. I am not a researcher meaning i dont conduct primary research and if you check, you will see that LHR is known for its reduction and never for permanent removal. I have no intension to run down LHR, was merely stating my long term concerns and views/decision that i have taken regarding LHR.

Id love anyone to prove me wrong but please do so constructively.
I can certainly be wrong, but do not want to deal with street level thuggery of vocabulary when on these boards. :slight_smile:

#8

Geff points out an issue that has semi-bothered me for some time (emphasis on the “semi”). PLEASE understand that I’m not “picking on” anyone! This post is general in nature and aimed only at the Hairtell format in particular.

On Hairtell, you never know exactly to whom you are speaking. Is this a person with 30 years of experience, or a client that has had a successful (or bad) experience? Sometimes the former patient speaks with such authority that you think they are an experienced operator. Sometimes they are giving actual treatment parameters and giving details to potential therapists. I wonder if a patient were injured by this advice, if the poster (or Hairtell) could be held responsible? (Yes, I have read the disclaimer statement on Hairtell. Probably not enough.)

Here’s what I would like to see clearly stated. First, if you are an electrologist, or laser operator, you should use your real name (and location). If you are a patient, YES use a pseudonym if you wish, so you don’t get unwanted exposure or “spam.” But you should state that you are a patient. This “opinion base” should be clearly stated in the headline … or at least in your profile. I would like to see: 1) I am a patient or, 2) I am a practitioner … not at the END of the post, but at the beginning; maybe in your name itself.

With the internet it’s all too easy to accumulate “facts and opinions” and simply re-state those “facts and opinions.” This is not the depth of understanding that someone working in the field has. Opinion based on opinion is just more opinion. Geff correctly pointed out the difference between “PRIMARY” research and (although not stated) “secondary” research. Big difference. Can an internet search be considered “secondary research?”

Let me give you an example of my frustration. ALWAYS, when people talk about “the blend method,” they always say that it’s “SLOW.” This is the decades-long “going opinion” and even stated in notable books, e.g., written by Fino Gior. But what does “slow” mean.

In my 35 years of electrolysis, I have completed many hundreds of underarm cases. These take, on average, 5 to 6 hours to complete the ENTIRE job. Is this “SLOW?” (I always use underarms as an example, because this area is usually the same on most women.) Is this time-frame what gives the blend the “slow” signature?

Brenton, in particular, claimed that there were THOUSANDS of male electrologists in the United States. What backed up his claim? He then said there were probably 2 in each State so that would be “hundreds?” (Actually 100 by his claim.) In reality, male electrologists are as rare as “hen’s teeth.” Again, I am NOT picking on Brenton, because he’s a very smart boy and has added a LOT to Hairtell … I want him to continue his wonderful contributions.

(Actually, a few times I have purposely made uncorroborated statements to elicit a response, but this has never happened. I wonder why? Do people just believe everything they read?)

But my point should be well taken. If you are a therapist, say that you are. If you are a patient … say that you are. A person with decades of experience has a more valid opinion about their field than somebody who has made Hairtell a sort of “fun challenge.” Dare I say “Hairtell groupies?”

If you sound like an expert and portray yourself as such, people will believe you and take your statements as gospel. This could be potentially dangerous.

Thanks Geff2013 for helping me put my thoughts in order.

#9

Actually Mike, my exact quote was there there are “hundreds, if not, thousands.” Yes, that might have been an overestimate, but I would be genuinely surprised if there were <100 male elctrologists in the US. I agree completely that it is a heavily-dominated female profession. I will ask my electrologist today how many male electrologists she knows of. Also yes, I do believe people believe everything they read unless something sounds so obscure that it would instantly raise a red flag.

Geff, I apologize if you felt I was making fun of you or mocking you. That was not my intention. For months, I have seen people write on this forum that electrolysis always works and laser never does. These blanket statements deter a lot of people away from getting hair removed in an effective manner. Yes, laser is known as a reduction because it can’t claim 100% removal. No one debates that. However, when done properly, it can claim 80%+ removal (which is thus deemed a “reduction”). Remember, if electrolysis was the end all be all, laser wouldn’t exist. Most of the stories you read of laser not working is because people didn’t do research and went to clinics that use poor settings.

What you choose to do is your choice. I have not used the Duet so I can not speak for its power. What I can say is that I have had great laser results along with quite a large number of other users on this forum, as well as Romeo (who no longer posts here) in his treatment of many many clients. As a consumer, I don’t have access to the stats of people who have had results (would anyone anywhere? I imagine HIPPA laws are strict for laser treatments.) There are also plenty of cases of people not getting results with electrolysis on this forum. In fact, Mike Bono posted that he saw one client who worked 100+ hours on just his shoulder.

Also, one other thing: Laser work by light (hence the name), not an electrical current.

Anyways, again I apologize if you took my statements as offensive. I just want people (myself included as I have a habit of doing this) from making blanket statements without evidence backing it up. Remember: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

#10

Its ok , no worries :slight_smile:

I still have the apprehensions that iv mentioned about laser. Even though i have decided on not pursuing LHR for myself, id still like someone to shed some light on the questions that i raised in my previous post regarding :

  1. LHR touchups with age- growth of white hair on body and LHR tackling that-
  2. Continous LHR touchups and long term skim damage- PERTINENT TO MALES- with normal male hormones-
  3. Cost of long term LHR for males compared to complete removal through Electrolysis
  4. Skin damage with LHR for males with so many more treatments compared to those for women.

Logic tells me (given on what information i have) that LHR for men just does not make any sense for those WHO WANT COMPLETE REMOVAL AS I DO.

Please experts , i need someone to clear these up–

Thanks guys!

#11

Sorry just to make myself clear- Im trying to use the questions above as a comparison with Electrolysis- Mike, perhaps you may be able to help clarify :slight_smile: Thanks.

#12

The laser exists, because 1) Electrolysis never had the backing of large laser manufacturing companies, which invested millions of dollars in marketing campaigns. 2) Electrolysis users were mostly women with hair problems in their faces, who wanted to keep the secret well kept, (understandable fear of mockery). 3) Internal wars between members of the profession of electrology: “My method is more effective than yours”, “The technique of my colleagues does not work, but mine is higher than the rest”, etc. 4) The zeal and secrecy of associations (that seems to be changing). 5) The vanity of the vast majority of doctors, unable to recognize that there was an absolutely foolproof method which they themselves invented, and then let go for lack of profitability? 6) Lack of skill, scruples, or plain common sense of many “professionals” who preferred to opt to maintain a customer for life treatment, using the perfect excuse “you have a hormonal problem”, "Hair grows in cycles ","This is a matter of years ", etc… 7) Erroneous hypothesis propagated by major schools, and highly quoted experts as “only anagen” (a strategy that delays the end to years). 8) The negligence, laziness, neglect of most of the manufacturers involved in this field, with complex of “Captain Schettino”, who jumped ship like rats, even before the ship made water.

Put all this in a shaker, and be amazed that still so many people who still have opted for Electrolysis. You’re right, this should be one of the few, if not the only forum in the world where there are a greater number of people are more satisfied with Electrolysis than with their laser treatments. Do not you ever wondered why? this will not be because a good number of these people failed with all types of Laser and IPL?, or they found that Electrolysis could compete on price and results?

#13

This might help shed some light on the discussion today. Here’s a photo of the client I’m working on this weekend. He was a client of mine 20 years ago!

What you are looking at is the (still) clear back (after 20 years), and the hairs that grew in on the sides over the years (they form a nice little strip of hairs). He had very thick and dense hair growth originally.

So, I suppose that you can claim “permanent hair removal with electrolysis” … after 20 years. (Yeah, his last treatment was with me 20 years ago! And, no other treatments since that time.)

#14

Note: 20 years ago, that little strip of hairs was not there (not grown in). Indeed, it took years (20) for those “outside hairs” to become big terminal hairs. I really think this photo is excellent documentation of the success of electrolysis.

The photo cannnot really show how beautiful, clear and unmarked his back truly is: like baby skin.

#15

So geff, to answer your questions to the best of my ability:

  1. Yes, when you get white hair, LHR won’t affect that, so the idea is to do it properly while the hair is dark so that way the amount of hair that will grow and potentially turn white is substantially reduced.

  2. Most people, when treated at high settings to begin with, don’t need continuous touchups. It also depends on your age and how much hair grows in later (see Mike’s photo – even with electrolysis clearing all the hair, eventually new hair grew and then that needs to be dealt with accordingly). Most skin damage is caused when the wrong laser is used at too high settings, but I haven’t ever seen a case where the proper laser was used AND skin damage resulted.

  3. Depends on the area. For the arms and legs, I found laser to be substantially more cost-effective. For the chest, not so much. It really depends on how much hair you have.

Josefa, most of the cases I’ve seen of laser “failing” was because laser techs weren’t willing to use the machine at strong settings (same way people get very poor electrolysis results when they “undertreat” the hairs over and over – again, see the guy who had 127 hours on his shoulder). There definitely are areas as well that electrolysis can compete in price, but there are also areas in my opinion that laser is much more cost effective (namely legs). I can’t speak for the problems with the electrolysis profession, but I can add that for many of us, laser has changed our lives for the better

#16

Geff … let me answer your question in this way.

I have seen at least 50 or 60 patients that have had laser (I’m giving you an actual number, not just an opinion based on very little REALLY seen, or my own experience. And yes, I have had laser done to me too.). I have seen laser treatments on patients since “day one” … way back in 1995 when the first lasers were introduced. I used to work with a physician that uses lasers to this day, we talk all the time; a great guy (just a little crooked).

After all this “primary research,” I will not, and cannot, offer you anything but opinion. I will not give you “opinion based on nearly nothing.” Now, if you have electrolysis questions … yes, that I can and will do. I know the electrolysis field and certainly know exactly what I can and cannot accomplish.

Presently there is not ONE actual laser tech that posts here on Hairtell. All the folks that talk about laser are former patients and (although smart) do NOT have a significant depth of “hands on” experience. You need to talk with someone who has had YEARS of actually treating patients.

As far as stories and photos on the internet? I trust very little of this; too easy to Photoshop and “puff” about any product or procedure. If it looks too good to be real … well, you know the rest. The internet is the new “wild West!”

I have never offered a single piece of advice regarding laser, because (even though I do know a lot about the subject), it would be disingenuous for me to attempt to speak as an authority. And authority is someone who is WORKING in the field … not a “smart internet surfer.”

Even if said person had great results themselves, that experience is NOT enough to start giving expert testimony and specific treatment parameters to perspective patients! Personal experience yes; but you are not an expert therapist with years of experience. I don’t want electrolysis patients doing this either! I don’t like this.

Having been on Hairtell for a year or so, I have discovered that a VERY large number of electrologists SUCK at doing the work. NOT the people here: they post their photos and give real-time numbers for the jobs they have completed (maybe that’s why there are so FEW of us here?). Indeed, I have been just about everywhere in the world teaching and lecturing … I still had no idea of the poor state of my industry. As Brenton pointed out, yes, I had a young guy recently that spend $10,000 on his shoulders (electrolysis) and got only about 30% reduction! Another client spent 127 hours on his beard/neck and I swear it looks like nothing happened! Numbers like this are SICK and perverted! And, they should sue the bastards.

As you see, I’m agnostic and skeptical about EVERYTHING!

With so many choices for hair removal, the onus is on the patient to find and discover the BEST laser operator and/or electrologist. KEEP reading Hairtell. All that you seek is “hidden” in past posts. Be careful, do your homework and don’t blow a ton of money on worthless treatments!

If you are looking for a fast and simple answer from an expert, you will not find it … because it’s not there!

#17

Note: I have recommended this in the past, but it’s worth repeating.

When you ask an “expert” on the internet, or an “expert” in real life, here’s your first set of questions (let’s say you are wanting your back cleared):

“How many patients (with back hair) have you completed?” You want REAL numbers, and real results with a specific time-frame, in hours, to completion.

The answer: “Oh, I do a lot of men,” is not an answer.
The answer: “Oh, that takes about two years, is NOT an answer.”

You want actual numbers. Numbers are real and objectively verifiable!

A good answer: “I have completed 27 men’s backs.”
A good answer: “the average time for the completed work is 96 hours.”

This same question should be asked of the “laser experts” that regularly post on Hairtell or any other blog of this nature:

“How many patients have you seen/interviewed in real numbers?”

Since nobody here is an actual laser therapist, you can’t ask how many cases they have completed, because they haven’t completed ANY cases.

(The electrologists here on Hairtell are all seasoned REAL experts in the field with decades of experience, and you can take their information “to the bank!” They ARE “the bomb!”)

Geff, you clearly have a scientific mind. Science demands actual data; in this case real numbers. Make sense?

#18

Friendly challenge to Brenton (his comments in quotes):

“ … but I haven’t ever SEEN (my emphasis) a case where the proper laser was used AND skin damage resulted.”

“Josefa, most of the cases I’ve SEEN (my emphasis) of laser ‘failing’ was because laser techs weren’t willing to use the machine at strong settings … “

Okay, now I’m being “mean” to Brenton. (I do love the kid thought.) The question revolves around the word “SEEN!”

So, of these cases that you have “seen” … how many have you actually SEEN? Numbers? What does “seen” mean?

#19

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2628842/#b8-0550050

“Although overall incidence of adverse effects after laser hair removal appears to be low and transient, these side effects can be more common when laser hair removal is carried out by untrained personnel.”

When I refer to “seen” (and the problem here is that HIPPA laws prevent us from finding out this information since I believe LHR is considered a “medical” procedure), it was in my research of getting treated myself and what the consumers themselves posted, reading god-only-knows how many threads on different forums, and not one person ever listed any adverse skin effect that lasted more than 18 months (I’m picking 18 months since Mike, you said that it takes 18 months for the skin to fully heal after electrolysis.) I’ve ready plenty of people getting crappy treatments, but none that have had any permanent skin damage. If someone has had permanent skin damage after having the correct laser used as appropriate settings, then they need to post about it or else we’re all in the dark about it.

Now if you want to see REAL damage, here’s a video from Andrea:

#20

To be very clear, I am not arguing statistics. I AM arguing that people should identify precisely who they are and what they do. This way a reader can understand the statements in light of that information and real-world experience.

Someone who has been a racecar driver for 20 years has more valid opinions than somebody who has gone for a ride in a racecar … and then read about it.

A few posters on Hairtell SOUND like very experienced technicians, when they are NOT at all!

YES, please continue posting and YES you are very good at it indeed. However, qualify your comments so people do not get the wrong impression and ACT on your information. I’m especially concerned when you and LAgirl occasionally give actual treatment parameters that are very specific … I worry about this.

You are not a therapist! You need to state this! Yes, every time you offer specific advice.