K well since i have what actually is light hair but appears to be brown (what im saying is a bunch of the hairs together look brown or even black but when you pull one out and look closely at it its very light), is laser (any type) outta the question for me?!
What other permanent methods are there besides electrolysis to thin or permanently remove hair
Argh plz give adive
thx
Electrolysis is the only method of permanent hair removal. There is nothing else. With electrolysis you can treat all skin types and hair types.
Is there some clinical data that I am not aware of that says laser is permanent beyond 6 months, 12 months, 2 years? It is down right erroneous and misleadimg to describe laser hair removal as permanent as of December, 2003.
I didn’t get to finish the above.
Anyway, the statement about laser comes forth because I am seeing an alarming amount of claims from medical journals and advertisments that laser is permanent.
When doctors spout that laser is permanent and put electrolysis in the temporary catagory of hair removal as was done in a “Patient Care” November 2003 Vol.37 No.11 article, there is a real problem that affects a consumer’s pocket book and confidence. This is misleading and overpromising the consumer. This is just one example that I cite. Believe me there are more!
Look into electrolysis until of if laser delivers what many promise.
yeah but getting a large area done such as my chest done by electrolysis… wouldnt that take a realllllllllly long (painful?) time?
Yes, it would take a while, but it is permanent. Some goals in life take longer than others. What is 12 to 18 months out of your whole lifetime? That’s the scenario IF you find a good electrologist and YOU keep to your appointment plan.
I don’t know how much hair you have on your chest, or how old you are, or what your pain tolerance is or most importantly, what your motivation level is to remove the hair. These factors would affect the time outcome.
You could try laser and maybe you would be one of the good candidates who are satisfied with some reduction and finer,lighter hair. You have to be a good candidate and have a good laser practioner for a hopeful outcome. I just haven’t heard enough success stories where people are hair-free and stable for 2 or more years after having the standard number of laser treatments performed. Many persistent people are still going for treatment after the 6-8 package treatments are finished, 3 years later. For that time frame and maybe less money, you could have had electrolysis done, which is permanent.
It’s your choice how to spend thousands of dollars for hair removal. Both are expensive, but one is permanent and works for all skin types and hair colors, if done properly.
For now, December 2003, that’s the way things are. We can hope that some miracle topical will be developed to destroy hair or that newer generations of laser with it’s swiftness will deliver permanancy and be safe for the skin in the long run.
I noticed you were asking about methods, to permanently reduce the amount of chest hair you have, other than electrology. I disagree with dfahey that electrology is the only way to permanently reduce hair. I too am a poor candidate for laser hair removal (you sound like you are better than me in the color department), yet the hair on my arms was PERMANENTLY reduced FIVE YEARS ago. Your instincts are correct to avoid treatments of large areas with electrology unless you are prepared to make painful hair removal a huge part of your life for years. Also, unless you are lucky enough to find a true artist, chances are electrology will be ineffective and possibly result in scarring. Did you know that dfahey is a professional electrologist? Yes electrology is an option, but if you are interested in a reduction of hair in a large area, consult with a few laser techs about your hair color, and what you might expect. Read posts by RJC2001 and other consumers. You should also consider the Aurora (see other posts), which I am using to treat my difficult hair color. I have tried electrology on large areas (including having two electrologists working at the same time and using expensive local anaesthetic), and I don’t suggest that road unless you exhaust other alternatives.
I would get a test patch done from a laser place and wait 3 to 4 months to see if your hairs have enough color down by the root to cause an effective treatment in that test area (you must take before and after pictures to allow for an objective view of the effectiveness). In the mean time you could also start the process of finding an electrolysis in your area that you trust. Any way you look at it if the laser works you will still need the electrolysis to clean up the lighter or white hairs, or if the laser does not work you will not have wasted time in starting your hair removal regime.
I have had both laser and electrolysis treatments and they both have worked for me and served their purpose, but my hairs are brown to black with only a smattering of white / blonde ones.
Chris
Hey redhead. It’s fine to disagree with me about what method to use to reduce chest hair, but the specific question ST240 asked was,“What other permanent methods are there besides electrolysis to thin and permanently remove hair?” He didn’t ask what methods are there to permanently reduce hair. I answered the question he asked truthfully. To date,the FDA has not cleared laser for permanent hair removal, but they have cleared laser for permanent hair reduction. If you dispute that,go to the FDA website and read their position. I didn’t write it as a professional electrologist.
Enough mincing about that.
For you ST240, Balius makes a great suggestion about getting a test patch with laser and waiting several months to see if this is effective. Actually, I think he has very level-headed advice for you. Laser and electrolysis can go hand in hand for some cases. However, in case you are not a good candidate for laser, think about electrolysis if you are talking permanent hair removal. A good electrologist with up to date equipment should still be in the picture if you are serious about permanent hair removal.
If you haven’t decided yet what to do,read the laser and electrolysis sections on hairtell for as many hours as you can tolerate. Go back as far as you can (date wise). People share their experience with both methods and I just bet you will have an easier time deciding after digesting that information.
It’s okay to do both, just know the limitations of each so you are spending your money wisely and getting results.
Like I said, my hair was permanently thinned with laser. Permanently. He asked if there was a permanent method to thin his hair besides electrology and there is. Laser. There is only one of us mincing words.
I should also add that I’m not sure of why dfahey has chosen to use this consumers question about treatment options as an opportunity to vent personal offense at some article he read, “Anyway, the statement about laser comes forth because I am seeing an alarming amount of claims from medical journals and advertisments that laser is permanent.
When doctors spout that laser is permanent and put electrolysis in the temporary catagory of hair removal as was done in a “Patient Care” November 2003 Vol.37 No.11 article”
Nobody here is trying to “put electrolysis in the temporary catagory”, but I will say that this LASER HAIR REMOVAL section of the forum exists because consumers are interested in laser as an ALTERNATIVE to electrolysis. We are not Advertisers or Doctors, but consumers. Most people on this section of the Forum know about electrolysis. Many, like myself have had treatments with electrolysis. And yet we are still getting Laser done because it offers a more realistic solution for us, even if it is far, far from perfect. It would be nice if people on the laser section of the Forum could ask questions about and discuss different laser and IPL options without being sold electrology all the time. I find it interesting that the ELECTROLOGY SECTION of the Forum is almost never interupted by Doctors pushing Laser.
dfahey states that electrolysis is the only method of permanent hair removal.
Of course this is complete rubbish and he knows it. Even bad stress can produce permanent hair removal.
As a Doctor, I feel it is only a matter of time before someone attempts to sue on the grounds that they did not know that lasers might provide permanent hair removal. I also treat electology scarring.
Geez redhead, here you go again. I had to go back and read my posts again. I can’t figure out your comment about electrolysis being “sold” on the laser forum. How did you make that leap from what I said? Are you saying that I should not comment about laser because I am an electrologist? I repeated facts, not opinions, about the FDA’s position on laser as well as misinformation reported in “Patient Care”. Why shouldn’t the consumer be privey to this information? Maybe you should direct your anger at the FDA and present clinical studies to them to support what you know to be true. When they change their position,I will change my answer.
As far as your last comment goes about doctors,did it ever occur to you that doctors don’t have the time to read hairtell.com let alone to add comment, whether it be the electrolysis forum or any other forum here? What a joke! Most doctors barely care about unwanted hair. Laser techs or doctors aren’t “interrrupting” the electrolysis forum because they know electrolysis has worked for 130 years and is safe in the long run. Time is proof. They’re too preoccupied with perfecting laser and it will be great if they do!
Did it ever cross your mind that this forum, being that it exists for the consumer, is looking for any and all facts, thoughts, opinions people have about their hair removal solutions? They are not picky about who gives advice or comment. ST240 probably learned something from dfahey and redhead. I’m confident that ST240 will decide what his options are, based on comments from whoever wants to respond. And redhead, I will respond whenever and wherever I please.
I’m very serious about one thing: why don’t you make it your personal hobby to push the FDA toward changing the language of their position statement. If laser has offered you permanency, maybe they should know that and take YOU as evidence toward declaring that laser is for permanent hair removal, not permanent hair reduction.
When someone asks about permanent hair removal, they will get a truthful answer from me- electrolysis. When someone asks about permanent hair reduction, that would be laser. May the consumer decide what is best for them personally based on ALL the information.
I think like Balius, there is need for both and I have recommended both options to my clients, in some cases. Thanks, Balius for your polite input. It was very helpful.
Who is Derm 1? Doctor of what? What are your credentials? Did you go to an accredited American college of medicine? Do you do laser hair removal only? Do you treat laser scarring, too?
Speaking of suing, there have already been lawsuits filed against laser manufacturers and spas who have disfigured clients. There has even been a lawsuit in regard to a client who DIED because he was given too much of medication to reduce the pain prior to his laser treatment! Are you for real,guy?
Glad your not my doctor.
I’m certainly not telling you where or when to post, but I am definitly saying that I find your comments disruptive precicely because you ARE a proffessional Electrolysist. Is it a mere coincidence that Fino Gior and yb, both Electrologists, continually post about Laser causing HAIR GROWTH on the Laser Forum. I’m sure each of you believe you are not speaking as Electrologists, but simply concerned human beings. Maybe you don’t see the conflict of interest, and believe that you are being helpful. Denial is not PRETENDING you don’t see a reality, it is NOT seeing a reality. The Electrology Industry is in shambles. I have read all the posts on the Electrology Forum and here is what I see. It seems like only about 1 in 20 practicing Electrologists are doing it correctly at all. The Electrologists that are actually qualified hair removal artists bicker amongst themselves and disagree on fundamental issues. The majority of consumers posting are either horribly unsatisfied with their results, or are having problems dealing with the process of their current treatments.
Yet no Laser techs chime in with suggestions that Laser is a superior method and that Electrology is inhumane. Rather, consumers that HAVE had good results share their experiences and give refferals. People like James Walker troubleshoot and make recommendations. A productive discussion ensues and problems are often solved.
Finally, I should say that when people like Barrester share great results with Electrology, as a consumer, I listen up. I have written down his refferal, which is in my area, and plan to use Her as an Electrologist at some point. I am not anti-Electrology. And as to your suggestions about me and the FDA, I could care less about the difference between the words “removal” and “reduction”. I only care about results. The only people that seem to care about this difference is the Professional Electrology Community.
Thanks redhead for your reply. I heard what you said and find your comments very reasonable.
If someone with a really hairy chest and abs wanted to get cleared by electrolysis in about 12 months, what would be an appropriate treat- ment schedule? Probably an hour long session once every week!
When I had the first laser treatment on my chest, which lasted an hour, I experienced 50% permanent hair reduction. There is no way that could be duplicated with electrolysis. Yes, I do have some hairs that the laser did not get, some grew back very fine because they were not hit in the early anagen stage. Others are white and are not targeted by the laser. I saved those hairs for electrolysis that really needed it. Reduction, removal, whatever, call it what you want, but 95% of it is gone and I’m pretty damn happy with that!
RJC2001
Thank you dfahey and rjc2001 for your replies. Unfortunately for st240 and myself we don’t have rjc2001’s dark hair color and won’t respond as well to laser. But if st240 has read this far, I still think it is definitely worth consulting with a few laser techs and getting some patch tests as it sounds like some of todays latest technology might give you decent results, especially since it sounds to me like you just want less hair and aren’t desperate to be completely smooth. The Aurora is worth a patch test for sure as it seems to work well on lighter hair. And if you want to know more about Electrology there is a lot of good info on the Electrology section of the Forum.
These questions are for RJC2001 and redhead.
Being that you are so happy with the results, could you share with others in more detail your experience from beginning to the end?
What was your laser experience like? (level of pain, condition of the skin after treatments and beyond, tech abilities,etc.)
What year did you start laser treatments for your chest and when did you finish?
What kind of laser(s) did you use?
Have you needed maintenance treatments or is the area totally stable for 6 months or more?
If you need maintenance,how often?
What was the cost?
If you have already posted these answers on this forum and can direct me there, I’d appreciate it. I think a more detailed account of how you got from point A to point B would be a real help to the laser neophytes. Thanks for your input guys.
My story with Laser is not all that positive. I’m pretty sure I posted it at length in another thread that you posted on, so maybe search your own posts to find it. In short, I had Laser done on my chest, back and arms starting over 6 years ago. The Industry was in it’s infancy, and they either didn’t know or weren’t saying that my color hair did not respond well to treatments. It was a long tome ago, and a bit of a blur, but I had about 6 or 8 treatments on all areas with various early lasers. It seemed like every other month they tried a new laser on me. Over 5 years after my last laser treatment I still see the same results I saw six months after. The hair on my arms is about 60% thinned with no bald areas. I had my back and chest treated with Electrolysis a few years later, so I’ll just talk about my arms. We all know now that I was a poor candidate for those early lasers, because about two years ago when I decided to talk to various doctors about new technology for my color hair, they all honestly replied that my color hair is problematic, and that I would still get essentially the same results as 6 years ago. That is until I heard about the Aurora on this Forum six months ago.
I suggest if you want to hear about possitive experiences from people who are GOOD candidates for hair removal, that you start a new thread asking for possitive experiences only, and see if people want to reply.
Whoa I am gone for a day and the debate has realy got heated.
I think the time has come for this site to have a section or permanent thread were those of us who have completed or are near completion of our hair removal journey can post in detail the methods used and the results obtained. I will post in the new year my thoughts in detail on how my treatments have gone and hope others will too, good or bad.
In all honesty i think practitioner skill is way more important at determining sucess then the technology used (except for treatment of light haired people with laser) and both methods have positives and drawbacks.
Chris