Laser Rebound Years Later (To Geeeza, DPP, and...)

… all who have started Electrolysis after laser.

I’m working on a case that could be similar to yours. Male, multiple laser sessions, young (incomplete development of hairs), etc.
This man had laser in the chest, upper arms, neck, stomach and abdomen (for more than two years with an alexandrite).
When he first came to me in March 2011 for a trial session in his neck, I photographed all the areas he wanted to eliminate with Electrolysis. The last laser session was a year before the first photo. In this first trip, we did not touch the chest, because there was no time and his main priority was the neck (front and back), so the chest was not touched until July 2011. Notice how the density of hairs on his chest is substantially higher in July (actual date of start of Electrolysis) than in the photo taken in March . Thank God I did not work in this area in March, because if I have done, the appearance of failure would be brutal.

My intention in opening this thread is to help you understand that you probably will have more regrowth of what you expect, but your electrologist is killing all the hairs that are coming (whether the regrowth arrive by the induced growth, as if coming from a new development).

In March (NO START OF ELECTROLYSIS)

In July 2011 (before first clearance)

In November 2011 (before second clearance)

In March 2012 (before third clearance)

[size:14pt]I hope this helps you understand how important it is to interpret the results based on what happened before of electrolysis treatments. [/size]

Thank you josefa…yeah some of mine has come through and what we figure from adjacent follicles bit nothing that can’t be sorted given time. Im itching loads at moment especially during night. lol aloe helps. He is looking good in that pic! :slight_smile: and what a difference…Im contemplating removing chest hair at moment! :slight_smile:

Just wow. Try telling a client coming to you after failed laser treatments that he or she can still have more regrowth after the laser more than a year later. No one will believe you.

Wow!!! Seeing this so graphically is absolute proof ,of what we have known for some time now. Thank you so much for sharing this Josefa.

THANK YOU JOSEFAAA!!! Thank you so much for sharing.
Your boy really muscled up by the end of it - he looks great!
Beautiful work, as always!!

Thanks for the interesting pictures, but that man’s hair was way too light to be treated with laser in the first place so I don’t think even laser experts would have been surprised.

According to laser experts who worked on this man, he was the ideal candidate: pigmented roots in a very white skin, high contrast. They even convinced him to do at the top of the arms, when my client was reluctant.

I’m not campaigning against the laser here, I’m just protecting the work of the electrologist, revealing a phenomenon that tends to confuse the user of electrolysis.

Well laser is crap. I just don’t understand why it is so crap for some people and great for others. It seems at least fifty percent are unhappy with their treatments
. Whereas electrolysis really does work for most.

It would be really interesting to know even approximate percent of success and failed LASER treatments.

I think in most cases the results for women may be better for obvious reasons. With men it is so strange because they will report the swelling shedding even at high energies and its all back. I think another factor is that like myself… i was not a good candidate for laser but still tried. laser clinics will always say they can treat with the exception of a few who take pride in there work and not just take your money. ELECTROLYSIS Is my last hope before i wax it all off lol. I think it may even be as high as 70% failure…for an approximation based on own experience others and from off here.

Thanks Josefa - the fact that, 1 year after completion of laser treatments, your client had little hair on his chest, and then 3 months later, had a chest full of hair, confirms regrowth of treated hairs after laser can occur for a long time. How long is the question!!! I have asked this of laser practitioners and no one has given an answer supporting Josefa’s find - maybe they don’t even know. A study of this seems simple enough - laser 100 people for a set number of treatments, check after 9 months, 12 months, 15 months etc. Obvivously, it would not be 100% accurate, as individuals and their body’s workings are just that, individual, but it would give some good insight. I assume for the FDA to allow laser hair treatments to be advertised as “permanent reduction” that many studies of this kind were done. Has anyone seen any such studies?

It is weird that laser delays regrowth for a much longer time than electrolysis does. Take the below example:

An 18yr. old women comes to me to remove her previously untouched lip hair. I do that, completing the area in 9-12 months with 4 treatments. She is hair free for 6 months and then in month 7 she gets some hair growth. I consider this new growth, to be from follicles that were not previously treated.

Now, take the above lip situation, treated by a series of laser treatments. The area remains clear for 6 months and then in month 7 hairs appear. It is possible and even likely, for these hairs to be the previously treated hairs (according to the laser practitioners I have talked with). I wonder why the long delay for the hairs to reappear.

Another interesting claim of laser is that it causes hairs to become less coarse, and that, the hair remains that way. If we treat a hair with electrolysis and weaken it (as all the necessary cells were not killed to destroy it) it will return as a weakened hair, but that hair, over time, will go back to its original structure. Why would the lasered hair react differently (by remaining fine)?

Perhaps this explanation makes sense: The laser impinges in the part of the follicle that has more pigment, ie, the bulb of the transient region. Enough to miniaturize the follicle, but not enough to remove hair permanently. Thus, part of the follicular tissue is replaced by scar tissue. For fine hair becomes thicker, it is necessary that the follicle, scroll down, that is, to go deeper
However, the fibrous tissue will not allow this. This could be performing a skin biopsy before and after laser in the same area, and probably someone has already done.

It should be noted that this kind of laser induced follicle stimulation only occurs on testosterone mediated follicles.

In other words, it is only a concern if you are a male receiving laser on your torso or upper legs, or if you are a female who is prone to androgen induced hair growth.

For males it is not much of a concern doing laser on the face because most males will have few remaining inactive follicles on their beard area by the age of 25-30. For females however it is very risky since those prone to androgen induced facial hair will have many inactive follicles which can easily become stimulated to grow terminal hairs by the laser.

In the case of the man pictured in this thread, his hair is definitely dark enough and skin light enough to have success with laser… had he continued undergoing laser treatments eventually most of his hair could have been eliminated once there were no more follicles to stimulate (although that would have probably taken years worth of treatments, electrolysis is definitely the better option for him)

Dear t4ngent,
I just thought I’d add that I have experienced laser stimulation in areas beyond what you have described above.

I wonder how much money collectively everyone has thrown away on laser? Not to mention time. :frowning:

Even at an individual level - too much. Especially when you’re young, on low rates, and work like a bee in the hope that it’ll be worth it… I could have traveled like my friends!

Not much one can do now other than try and prevent the same mistake being made by others.

I’m not dissing laser - it’s just not for everywhere and not for everyone.

I agree. You need very good circumstances and suitability for yourself for Laser to work correctly, and even then you might be in for a rude awakening. And even though Electrolysis is better overall, it’s still hard to find competent technicians who can even compare to some of the skilled proffessionals on this site. Expensive/risky business this permanent hair removal.

DPP, do you have underlying hormonal or genetic issues which cause your hair growth?

The scientific journals I have read on this matter point to the vast majority of hypertrichosis cases studied being linked to androgen mediated follicles. However, it should be noted that certain people with hormonal or genetic abnormalities may be at risk in other areas due to atypical endocrine function (ie hirsute individuals may have androgen stimulated follicles in atypical locations, or covering the entire body in the most extreme cases)

My doctor says I don’t. But I have not had extensive testing done.

DPP - are you a male?