Laser on chest, back and shoulders - Help Plz!

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hi all, I am a 30 year old male from London and looking for laser hair removal on my chest and possibly on my shoulders. My skin type is I would say somewhere between type 2 and 3 and my hair is black.

The hair on my chest is thick black and the hair on abdomen is also the same but thinner on each side as it spreads out to the side of my torso from the “snail trail”. These hairs also start to become thinner and lighter as they spread out. I never have my top off in the sun so I have pale white skin on by chest, belly, shoulders and back.

I have had a few consultations with clinics in central London (not salons). One of them used cynosure elite and the other alexandrite which from my understanding are both machines that are suitable for my skin and hair colour.

My concern is that I could potentially induce hair growth in places which are currently thinner and lighter hairs such as the sides of my torsos and on my back and shoulders. In an ideal world I would like to simply have 6 – 8 courses (on chest, abs, shoulders and back) of laser treatment on the highest possible setting my skin can take 8-12 weeks apart per visit. However I understand from reading a lot of stories on this forum this can cause dormant hairs to grow and for thinner hairs to grow thicker, darker and more numerous. The FAQ on this forum states that this is rare and usually more common on people with type IV skin and rarely on people with black hair and pail skin…

I would also like to add now that I fully accept that laser will not target and remove all hairs such as the ones that are thinner and lighter… They should however remove all dark course hairs. I am not expecting a “waxed body” result but more 90 – 100% of thick dark hairs to be eliminated and to be left with the thinner lighter hairs that the lasers cannot reach. I will be very happy with this and I might look into finishing up with electrolysis but I should hope this will not be necessary.

Below are some pictures of the hair on my chest, abs, shoulders and back. I would really appreciate your input for the questions I have below in regards to my scenario.

Shoulder Pic:

  1. I know my chest will be perfect for laser as there are no thin or light hairs in this area and also most of my abdomen. When I have this done should I ask that the practitioner only zaps the areas on my abs which have the dark hair and leave the thinner ones at the sides alone to prevent the possibility of those ones not getting zapped by the laser and causing the heat to have them grow back thicker/darker?

  2. In the pic above there is one close up of my shoulder. The hair is mostly thinner than my chest and a lot less dense. Is the hair dark and thick enough for a laser to zap it and/or will I run the risk of causing this area to grow back thicker?

  3. On my back just below my neck I have 2 patches of hair which again is a little less dense/thick as my chest hair. This is the thickest place hair grows on my back. Again will the laser be able to treat these hairs sufficiently without inducing hair growth?

  4. I also have 2 large patches of hair on my mid back (both left and right) which are very fine and soft. From reading other peoples threads and seeing their pictures my understanding is that these areas are likely not to be reached by the laser and thus be a waste of time and potentially cause them to grow thicker and darker after treatment?

  5. Like I said above in a best case scenario I would simply want to have 6 – 8 treatments on all areas. I read many horror stories about using laser on hair which is thin and not course (like my back). Assuming I ask for the highest possible setting that my skin can handle what is the chances that the laser treatment on my back will have the opposite effect and cause the hair to grow back thicker and worse?

I know that many people choose to have Electrolysis in these areas instead which is potentially something I will consider on my shoulders and upper back but having read a lot on this forum there are not many good practitioners local to London which are highly spoke about.

Thanks for taking the time to read though this (appreciate its long winded) I would appreciate your feedback.

many thanks!

#2

I’ve read quite a bit here that the back and shoulders can be areas of risk for induced growth when using laser. Electrolysis is probably the best option for shoulders and back in my opinion, especially if the hair is lighter and finer. I’m not too sure about the chest or abdomen. Some others here can probably give you opinions. Good luck!

#3

So I went for another consultation today at another clinic. I asked all the questions as per my original post and the lady said that my back and shoulders are fine to treat as they have colour in them. She said that induced hair growth usually occurs with Asian people or on very fine hair with little to no colour such as hairs you have on your arm when you are a child.

I said about settings and she said they will do a test patch on the Alex 15mm spot size on 15,17 and 19J. I said and would you go any higher if my skin can take it, the answer was “NO”. she said that they can lower the pulse width (but I didn’t ask what pulse width they would use with these settings on the test patch anyhow).

I would really appreciate some response to this and my initial questions above so I can be guided in the right direction.

thanks,

#4

Mate, you wond be getting any andivce soon , and you lnow why ?

its simple, although probably some laser fanatisc will jump on their asses: because laser dosent work, it will AT MUCH thin your hairs, but it wont get you read of this problem. You are in the wrong forum section :wink: .

Check out this , and search for an electrologist.

my thread http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/113969/Re_Hair_Removal_Electrolysis_L.html#Post113969

others success threads on men with hairy backs shoulders chests etc , you name it , with pictures, electro section is FULL of them.

Do you see many success stories, apart from that guy brenton, posted here with laser? no, because … they do not exist.

PS : for la girl , brenton and all the 'laser" guys: don’t even want to start a polemic, when you will have some real pictures to show, well talk, until then, for me at least - laser > almost no results . electro > almost SURE results. I speak going trough this for more than 7 years.

#5

And for you lazer boys : yes , yes, I know, haven’t wused the right settings, settings too low, moon in leo instead of sagitarius … bullshit. If this laser woul give results, perhaps we would see some real men cases treated SUCESSFULLY , not just started journals with no pictures, or questions without ansewers like this guy’s one ^

#6

Well hairyeuropeanguy … Yep, YOU are now my “new hero!” No doubt about it!

As yet, we do not have a president for the “Brotherhood of the Hair” in Europe … I nominate YOU! Besides, before I “croak,” I want to make a trip to Magyar-land to see the birthplace of my mother! You know, for the presidential ceremony?

What is particularly revealing is not the “client-by-client” story (some good, some bad), but the major laser businesses … and WOW do I have first-hand stories. (I wonder why folks always tell me everything?)

I’m not interested in injuring reputations (no need really), but now, on three continents, major “players in laser” have: 1) given up, 2) gone bankrupt, 3) quietly moved on, 4) “skipped town.” And all of these have gently/quietly been moving BACK into … well … what do you think? Oh, electrolysis!

Imagine that?

Nothing matters in this world economy except the “marketplace.” No scientific papers, no opinions, no advertising … none of it. The marketplace always “finds out” and makes adjustments and corrections. It’s the people! It’s democratic (small “D”). It’s you “guys!”

Patients always find the answer. It’s painful. People get hurt … REALLY horribly hurt. Yes, hurt in both laser AND electrolysis … (mostly from the money-grubbing scalawags and CHEATS), but “what works” eventually rises to the top.

Stay tuned; this story is not yet over! If you wonder how this all eventually turns out, try finding a “Depilatron” some time.

Depilatron? Bet you don’t even know what that is?

#7

We have a thread in the laser forum devoted post laser success stories . Check it out.
Laser Success Stories

As a very busy Electrologist who does not perform laser, I must disagree with blanket statements about laser not working. IT DOES WORK! I have seen numerous cases of laser reduction, with excellent results on the lower legs, bikini and under arm areas, especially. When the hair is dense, dark and very coarse and the person has pale skin… and the laser specialist is quite skilled at using a quality, powerful laser, with appointments spaced appropriately apart, then the laser is going to do what the laser is designed to do, which is to disable hair follicles permanently. Laser reduces hair permanently, but if that means 95% of the hair is reduced and the remaining hair is so thin and light that the person only has to shave her legs once a month, well, I call that success.

I know several clients that are stable and hair free several years later and that is the
TRUTH! Laser is here to stay and those that don’t get satisfactory results are always going to find a board like this to come and complain. The happy ones just don’t wake up in the morning and think of doing a search for a place like Hairtell to rave about their good results.

For hair removal, we need all the modalities, that actually work. Almost every human mammal alive has unwanted hair and there are not enough well trained electrologists to handle it all. I look at laser reduction as an important ally and friend that compliments my business and I’m sure the laser specialists would echo “DITTO!” with their sentiments toward electrologists.

#8

Oh dear, I didn’t even know I got mentioned on this thread. BUT, since the OP asked, here are my real pictures (which I’ve posted on this forum before):

Before: http://oi44.tinypic.com/9ih3wi.jpg
After Pic 1: http://oi42.tinypic.com/f0ahlc.jpg
After Pic 2: http://oi40.tinypic.com/uojuv.jpg

Oh, and “settings too low” is a real issue – that’s not “bullshit” as you claim, that’s physics.

#9

Oh, and to answer the OP’s original questions:

The hair on your back and shoulders looks way too fine for laser to be effective. The hair on your chest and stomach would do well with laser provided high settings are used.

The settings you need to look at are: joules, pulse width, and spot size. Here are a list of recommended settings for more common lasers for you to compare: http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/112187/Laser_guidelines_from_manufact.html#Post112187

I would recommend you to find a clinic that uses the Gentlelase or GentleMAX. I know nothing about what’s available in London, but there’s a number of people on this forum from there and I’m sure recommendations of places have been posted if you just run a search for it.

#10

That laser hair removal “works” (add in the multiple requirements and inconsistencies), is actually not the point. Lasers worked on me (somewhat), and others like Bill Schuler owner of the Hinkel Company. I know that …

The “Concord” worked too: damn thing went supersonic and was awesome! It’s also not here. Why? Why aren’t we all flying at supersonic speed? (And, it’s NOT because of one spectacular crash!) And, what’s with that big lumbering A380?

And, just what are laser clients “finding out?”
It’s not so simple as “it doesn’t work!”

The key is: does laser work well enough to justify the economics? That’s going to be the determining factor … not that it “works or does not work!”

Other “icons of progress?” Well, my silly prediction is the eventual demise of the Toyota Prius and other hybrid cars. It’s not that the cars don’t work; they do work, and very nicely. But what will be the actual economic factors and real impact to the environment?

Case in point: The new Mercedes E250 (not electric; an IC motor) is advertising that it gets better gas mileage than a Prius. The old (1980s) Geo Metro, Pontiac Firefly, Chevy Spirit, Suzuki Swift, etc, all got the same, or better, mileage than their upscale hybrid brethren. They had simple IC motors.

That’s the point. And, it’s going to be a very slow evolutionary process … always is.

#11

How long since your last session of laser on arms, Brenton? Is this reduction remained constant? Can we watch a updated photo of your arms?

#12

Here’s an updated photo I took just now (I have no idea why it’s sideways): http://tinypic.com/r/jq17ro/8

I would say it’s been pretty constant. There’s probably a few more finer hairs that the camera couldn’t pick up but I have very poor lighting and only have my phone as a camera. I don’t remember how long it’s been since my last session to be honest (though the previously posted photo I took a year ago based on when I first posted it here on hairtell).

#13

Thanks for your reply Brenton, one question though. If the hair just below my neck is to thin then how did laser successfully work on your arm hair?

The 2 patches just below my neck are both darker and thicker than of those on your arm before picture…

I’m not expecting hair free on this area but at least the more prominent darker and thicker ones to be disabled…

Thanks!

#14

Perhaps it’s the photo quality from my before picture (it was taken a long time ago and I never took a picture directly of my arm but just one I could find a few years ago that showed me arm), the hair there is much more coarse than the hair just below your neck. The laser worked really well on that hair. After subsequent laser treatments, what wasn’t killed has been substantially weakened and is much thinner. In your case, all the hair in that area isn’t really that dark and coarse. You really should do electrolysis in that area (that’s a small enough area that it wouldn’t take a long time)

#15

Hi Guys, had my laser treatment done on my chest and abs last week following my patch test that was done around 8 weeks before (where the area even still is reality hair free).

Before I started I asked what the highest setting was that he used on the patch test and he said 30j and that the machine is maxed out at that setting. I believe the spot size was 15mm, he didn’t say about the pulse width.

I was asked to keep around 1mm of hair about the surface of the skin so that he can see where he has been and what hairs still need to be zapped. I used a set of clippers and most of the hairs were around <1mm however some places maybe a little longer.

We started at the highest setting which was fine when he started around the top of the chest/neck area where the hair is not so dense, as soon as he reached the pictorials it hurt so much I was clenching my hands and gritting my teeth, he offered to lower the settings but I reluctantly said to crack on with the max.

20 minutes later, very sore but relieved I left, I have been asked to come back in around 10 weeks. He also said that he hasn’t had many patients that could put up with what I just did haha! The following 48 hrs were also uncomfortable and the skin was very sore to the touch.

In 10 weeks time if the same reduction in hair applies to the whole of my chest and abs, I would guess I will only have 40 to 50% of hair (maybe less). Do I just continue with this or wait longer for more hairs to emerge?

furthermore, someone please tell me as the hairs become thinner and fewer each time that the pain experienced throughout the treatment also reduces?!?!!?

cheers,

myk5

#16

15mm/30J is the max setting in terms of spot size and joules. The pulse width makes a big difference, but since they went high with those settings, I’d imagine they went low with the pulse width (which is good).

I usually would go in every 10-12 weeks (or whenever there’s enough hair to treat). Nothing bad happens from waiting longer. The pain does reduce a little each time, but it’s not by much. But hey, at least you’re getting results!

#17

Thanks for your reply.

Would I experience less pain if I was to shave with a razor (with the grain) a few hrs before my next treatment? This would mean the hairs are at the same level as the skin.

Regardless I will speak to them next time and ask if I can do this. I think their issue is people with lighter hair/less dense it is hard for the tech to see where the hair is to be zapped and thus they ask for 1mm or so.

with my hair however I think they should still see pepper dots once shaved and I can brief the tech on what area to cover in the places where it is fewer and finer…

I understand the more hair above the surface of the skin the less of the energy is absorbed to the root and thus making the treatment less effective. would having 1mm above the skin with the settings i had make much of a difference vs shaving with a razor right before the treatment?

#18

Having hair above the surface increases pain and decreases efficiency. The practitioner is an idiot. The laser is attracted to the melanin (pigment) so the heat is then dispersed over the skin and the hair above the surface, and less will make its way into the follicle.

Practitioners will sometimes use highlighters so mark off the areas they have completed, or mark up a graph on the area so they know where to go without redoing areas. Suggest they improve their practices instead of expecting you to have less effective and more painful treatment because they are inept or lazy.

#19

I gather this now, next time I will shave the night before.

From what you are saying I am worried that I have under gone this pain and expense to have minimal positive outcome. The settings on the laser were at the highest level but now worried that regardless of power most of it was wasted on the hair above the skin and thus not disabled the follicle permanently.

Most of the hairs are not growing since treatment, does this indicate successful treatment?

I have a number of sporadic dark hairs that seem to have kept growing around my chest… however in most cases when I pull them they come out with ease and no “plucking” pain. Is this likely due to the hairs shedding and not the fact they were not treated due to lack of power to the root?

#20

If they slide out, it will be shedding.

When I was getting treatments, I would wait around 2 - 3 months for a full cycle of hair to grow in before going for my next treatment. This seemed to work really well.

You won’t know how many hairs have been permanently disabled for a while now, but there is nothing you can do about any that you have missed until they cycle back into a growth phase.

Don’t worry too much though :slight_smile: Continue with your sessions until you experience diminished returns and then swap to electrolysis to finish off if needed.