L.I.T.?

[CRCBiomedical]

This is what we are talking about when we say that a fair number of consumers come to Hairtell to post about their laser induced hair stimulation, produced by lasers doing exactly what lasers are suppose to do?

Dee, this is the type of post that implies you have beef with laser hair removal. True curiosity would simply ask the question, or look for a rational explanation. Your question is loaded, and your perspective is obviously not objective. I’m sorry if you are offended by my frankness, but this case fits the exact profile of the points I’ve been making, yet you’ve complete disregarded as much.

Again, we electrologists are not making up these sad stories because we are afraid of the competition with laser. We have no control over this. The common pattern of complaints are worth noting.

You can’t rationally suggest the pattern of complaints is worth noting while completely ignoring the context of the complaints, which so far have made them almost perfectly explainable, or there has not been enough information to make a rational assumption OTHER than that which I have already pointed out.

Laser can’t see fine hair, so we end up treating the fine hairs.

True- so the problem is not lasers, it is incompetent laser practitioners.

What would you have advised this woman to do? What caused her increased hair growth?

There is not enough real world information to answer either of these two questions, but for one- I never recommend IPL. Second, I would never recommend any 755nm laser other than the EpiCare LPX or DUO for skin type IV or higher (because of maximum average power).

Again, in the absence of real world evidence, you are only jumping to conclusions- this is why I have said many people here are biased.

[Deedra]

I have carefully explained to you Mickey that I have no beef with laser so I will not be redundant on that point. If you don’t believe me, then you don’t believe me. The poster above reports, in HER words, that she had increased hair growth and I believe her. I didn’t bribe her to say that. It is her own observations and I have been trying to get the point across that she is not alone…

So, am I suppose to tell her that the laser specialist was incompetent? The laser was underpowered? Under serviced? Not enough joules were used? Wrong spot size? It was the wrong kind of laser? The laser is not the best for her charactaristics? The parameters were wrong? They treated her fine hair and that is unethical?

She did get treated with an IPl and then a real laser. She has more hair than when she started. So, we are supposed to not believe that there was no cause and effect involved with either light-based device?

Perhaps the laser industry should do a better job educating the people that pick up the wand, so they in turn can educate the consumer , in writing, what may or may not be their outcome. It is not up to electrologists to fill the gap as to why someone had a poor laser outcome when they come crying in our bosoms.

I always ask ex-laser clients if they reported their increased hair growth to their laser specialist. I suggest they ask for a refund. The answer is usually, I did not complain. The ones that do complain and ask for a refund, usually don’t get that refund, but instead are offered more worthless treatments. The laser client simply gives up.

In my heart, I want people to get the hair off ASAP. Whether they do laser or electrolysis, matters none to me. If they are not well- informed about either modality, then that does matter and simply deflates me. Thus, that is why I continue to have a presence here on Hairtell to educate the hairy consumer about good electrolysis care. In the process of trying to stay within my area of expertise, I was reporting to you, a highly educated scientist that repairs and sells laser, that there is something going on with some? many? laser consumers where they register their complaints here on Hairtell about LASER HAIR STIMULATION.

How does that translate into having a beef with laser? I think you are being too harsh on me.

[beate_r]

True- so the problem is not lasers, it is incompetent laser practitioners.

Which is true, of course. But what would that help people with excess hairs. They are confronted with the situation as it is - and that is an overly large degree of incompetence and immoral behaviour.

It is never the tool by itself but always the practitioner using it in a wrong way. No doubt about that. In the same way as it is - of course - alwas the electrologist and not the machine or the methos if something goes wrong.

But exactly that is what i meant when i wrote a few days ago that the practitioners should know the limitations of their tools and act accordingly. In this case do not treat the face of that woman at all, in other cases send away the people with blonde or even red hairs (like me, common practice is “we might give it a try” in order to earn the money for treatment that are forseeably useless), in again other case use enough energy. On the other hand, it is again not the machine but the practitioner, who is responsible if laser burns occur.

Was denn sonst? (What else?)

A few years ago i suggested one of my transgender clients to do some 5 laser treatments before doing electrolysis - her beard were really thick and deeply black hairs. Result: 100% regrowth, most of it white.

We all know that laser and even IPL for hair removal may be wonderful tools - correctly applied in those areas and on those hairs where it is known to work. If that was ensured we would not need to have discussions like trhat one. The key problem is, of course, that laser practitioners to often do not work correctly - both technically as well as ethically.

[Bono]

I’ve been perusing these posts a tiny bit and will have some observations/comments later.

Today, is “high anxiety” since I will be working on a new-client “A-list” film star (and his girlfriend too … yikes!) We always close the entire office and “clear the decks” for these guys; everybody goes home for the day. Being unseen is important. They said they’d be here at 7:00 AM so here I am looking at Hairtell. In reality they will show up at noon! It’s the way it is! Pretty much always!

Anyway, I know you all know the difference between primary and secondary research. (I have some amazing stories about this too.) However, the pronouncement that “Bono is wrong,” was interesting.

See, I’ve been doing electrolysis for 38 years. I have had between 6 to 10 new (young) male clients each year. My observations? Most of the hair on the back (70%) is in anagen. Yes, telogen hairs are also abundant, but most of these will have the anagen hair shooting up alongside. (I’ve reasoned this out too.) And, that’s my “primary” research based on observation: 300 to 400 patients over my entire career.

I’m not a big believer in “eyewitnesses accounts” or anecdotal documentation. But in this case, I believe myself: that’s a LOT of observations.

Can BOOKS be incorrect? Well, yes that does happen! … I’m pretty sure CRC (or something like that) bases his “Bono is wrong!” on what he’s read in a textbook or from “hearsay” from a physician?

He uses the following terms throughout his posts (these are direct quotes that impeach the people on Hairtell): Uniformed, wrong, dishonest, hypocritical, irrational, not logical, manipulative, not objective, biased, poor attitude, dismissive, hostile. Well, these are just a sampling of his “juicy firebrand adjectives.” Nice going there! Um, don’t get a job in public relations … okay?

I know he’s given himself a “moniker,” but I’d like to call him "the Laser Avenger!” Yeah, black cape, red tights and firing a laser from both hands!

Maybe I’ll talk to the “film star” today about doing such a role? “The Laser Avenger Attacks Hairtell.”

Oh, just got a call … they’re here! Bye for the whole day! I had too much coffee … I’m shaking! Damn, NOT good for insertions!

[CRCBiomedical]

This is truly hilarious. In the end, those who are biased will continue to be biased. Those who seek the truth will do their due diligence. Complainers will complain, and the rational will continue to pursue the truth.

I hope you all have a wonderful weekend

[ayshachaudhary]

I’m am biased towards the fully proven, understood method that guarantees permanent hair removal.

Mickey, your posts have been informative and I hope you will stick around the LHR section of the forums because there are always new users posting asking questions such which Laser is best for their them, or if the test patch settings they just had will be effective. If you want people to get the best results they can, thus improving the profile of LHR, I think it would be worth doing.

[Tiredofhair]

Actually there is and it occurs in 0.6% to 10% of treatments . I have also had this happen to me . And no laser techs won’t admit it because it would turn away their clientele . But as of now there are medical studies showing this , at least I’m seeing some online .

[Tiredofhair]

Haha just noticed how old this post is. I guess it’s more common now or at least more commonly reported .

[Andrea]

Yes, it’s been known about for some time! Look up Laser Induced Paradoxical Hypertrichosis for some of the studies. And thanks for resurrecting this old (but important) thread!

[Bono]

Yes, presently all my clients are male. All had Laser Induced hair growth and the average spent on the failed treatment is between $5,000 and $7,000. It takes a VERY long time for the public to realize the risks.