Dee,
I like you to 
In any case, I was going to write a response, but I’m just going to do one thing I said I would do in that response which I deleted- I am going to contact the authors of the paradoxical hair growth study, and question them.
I will post their responses here.
To divert this thread back, I’m still interested in hearing an answer: How long would hair stay in telogen before one would hypothesize “L.I.T.”? [/quote]
Jad, chest and back are anagen 25% of the time, and telogen 75% of the time. The duration of telogen for chest and back hair is typically 9 months.
Arm hair is typically anagen 20% of the time, and telogen 80% of the time. Typically, 6 months in telogen.
Legs are 20% and 80%, with a 9 month telogen cycle.
Pubic areas are 30% and 70%, with a 3 month telogen cycle.
As for “laser induced telogen”… smh
Laser induced telogen is part of the process of laser hair removal. Maybe I’m confused…
Mickey,
Is it my understanding that laser cannot affect telogen hairs?
I have no idea where that is coming from. Telogen hairs are either shocked into anagen, or receive lethal injury.
Mickey, I have nothing to add to the discussion, but looking back on your posts, I’d like to thank you for your time and valuable information regarding laser. It’s changing how I perceive it and I now see it as a viable option for some work I’d like done! Thanks.
I have no idea where that is coming from. Telogen hairs are either shocked into anagen, or receive lethal injury. [/quote]
So, what if those shocked telogen hairs grow as lighter fine hairs?
That’s good to hear, Connor!
Dee, miniaturization is a natural process of laser hair removal. This, and because laser doesn’t attempt to remove the follicle, rather injure it, is why the FDA does not allow it to be termed “permanent laser hair removal.” Not all anagen hairs react to treatment. Others experience miniaturization after receiving sublethal injury.
And for those who are still confused about the length of anagen vs. telogen on various parts of the body:
http://bioxet.com/eng/eng/anatomy-of-body-hair.html?page=10,1
The Richards-Merhag Hair Growth Table
I’ve been meaning to ask this to an expert so now that we have you here CRC Biomedical, do you agree that to fuly determine results, the maximum amount of time passed is 12 to 18 months post last laser treatment? Because I’ve read people saying that they experienced ‘full regrowth’ as late as 2+ years after, but I think that that was simply due to aging with former vellus hairs enlarging.
The number I mentioned earlier was 11 years- after reviewing my literature, this was a statement meant to highlight the amount of time laser hair removal had been performed at the time of that publishing.
For certain areas (like the back and chest) I wouldn’t be convinced hair wouldn’t return until after about 5 years, and only if proper treatment was delivered. Of course some may say I am exaggerating, but the chest and back already have a 9 month telogen cycle. If one of the effects of laser hair removal is an extended telogen cycle, 9 months could extend to two years, in my opinion.
To divert this thread back, I’m still interested in hearing an answer: How long would hair stay in telogen before one would hypothesize “L.I.T.”? [/quote]
Jad, chest and back are anagen 25% of the time, and telogen 75% of the time. The duration of telogen for chest and back hair is typically 9 months.
Arm hair is typically anagen 20% of the time, and telogen 80% of the time. Typically, 6 months in telogen.
Legs are 20% and 80%, with a 9 month telogen cycle.
Pubic areas are 30% and 70%, with a 3 month telogen cycle.
As for “laser induced telogen”… smh
Laser induced telogen is part of the process of laser hair removal. Maybe I’m confused… [/quote]
Thanks CRC, just what I wanted to know
The number I mentioned earlier was 11 years- after reviewing my literature, this was a statement meant to highlight the amount of time laser hair removal had been performed at the time of that publishing.
For certain areas (like the back and chest) I wouldn’t be convinced hair wouldn’t return until after about 5 years, and only if proper treatment was delivered. Of course some may say I am exaggerating, but the chest and back already have a 9 month telogen cycle. If one of the effects of laser hair removal is an extended telogen cycle, 9 months could extend to two years, in my opinion. [/quote]
Sorry I didn’t quite understand that. The part about the 11 years and also when you say hair could return after 5 years do you mean the same hairs that were succesfully targeted by laser?
Thanks.
Johnson- forget the 11 year comment. That’s in relation to a comment I made in a different thread, so I was just clarifying.
What I’m suggesting is that due to the intentional extended length of the telogen cycle- a desirable effect of laser hair removal which is intended to render the hairs dormant, or dead after a few treatments, areas like the back and chest could percievably take more than a couple years to show new growth. Some of the dormant follicles may begin to grow. How many follicles we have is determined before birth, so you won’t get “new” follicles, but you may also have new androgenic hairs (from vellus hairs) activated by hormones, or some unknown condition.
Right, I see. Personally what I had in the back of my mind are the areas like the hands and face since those are the only areas I had treated by laser.
How long has hair been gone from your hands and face, how many treatments did you have, and how old are you? Skin type? Do you know what they used? Do you know what kind of hairs you had on your hands and face?
No. I think the main reason is the poor attitude with which experts are received. No matter how many bad experiences there have been with laser hair removal, there are tons more good experiences. Consumers with good things to say about hair removal are not going to participate in a forum full of electrologists who regularly bad mouth hair removal, and look for new clients who are disappointed with laser. It’s just the target audience this site has decidedly catered to.
It is actually pretty advanced technology, and quite easy to understand. Most consumers posting on this page find it by searching for complaints boards on hair removal. Most professionals on this board are electrologists with little to no experience doing laser hair removal. Introduce laser experts, and you have an immediate conflict of interest with those who participate on the site, and those who come for information.
As for misconceptions, misinformation, preconceived notions, or just plain ignorance- much of it abounds on this website with regard to laser hair removal. While some of you may be upset, it may benefit you to at least empower yourself with the knowledge of truth, rather than just being pissed off over an experience, and disregarding facts entirely. [/quote]
“Consumers with good things to say about hair removal are not going to participate in a forum full of electrologists who regularly bad mouth hair removal, and look for new clients who are disappointed with laser.”
I am an electrologist in Spain. Let me tell you one thing, to look for customers disappointed with the laser you do not need to participate in Hairtell, here in Spain there are tens of thousands of them, and in France, and Portugal, and Germany, and Norway, and the UK , and … do I still?
"Most professionals on this board are electrologists with little to no experience doing laser hair removal. Introduce laser experts, and you have an immediate conflict of interest with those who participate on the site, and those who come for information. "
Yes, there is a conflict of interest, but not the one you claim exists but the conflict experienced by someone who has put their hope, their time and money in return for a reduction ridiculous in the best of cases, or absolutely nothing like in this particular case. Man’s legs after a laser session (400 €)
reduction ridiculous in the best of cases
Perhaps I misinterpreted, or something got lost in translation, but in the best of cases like I and many others had, there is substantial reduction, not a ridiculously poor reduction
Some people get fantastic reductions and some people don’t. Some people even end up with more hair than when they started . The devil is in the details as to why this happens on a case by case basis.
Mickey (CRC),
This is a consumer post from another thread that was posted today. This is what we are talking about when we say that a fair number of consumers come to Hairtell to post about their laser induced hair stimulation, produced by lasers doing exactly what lasers are suppose to do? Again, we electrologists are not making up these sad stories because we are afraid of the competition with laser. We have no control over this. The common pattern of complaints are worth noting. The story consists of people who choose to do laser first and then end up running to an electrologist utterly stunned that they have a worse problem than before they started. Laser can’t see fine hair, so we end up treating the fine hairs.
What would you have advised this woman to do? What caused her increased hair growth?
#106956 - Today at 07:06 AM Re: ELECTROLYSIS SUCCESS STORIES! Add yours here. [Re: Tina Marie]
melloe
Member
Registered: Fri Feb 15 2013
Posts: 1
Hi all,
I’ve finally registered on this site after scouring all posts relating to electrolysis/laser hair removal as a non member. This site has been such a massive help during my electrolysis journey and I’m now confident enough to share my experience.
Where to start, I am a 25 year old female of South East Asian descent. Fortunately for me I am actually not overly hairy however of course you are always your own worse critic. My sideburns bothered me a bit. They were longer than the usual (just a teeny fraction past my earlobes)and a work colleague had been getting IPL for pigmentation and suggested it as an option since I had mentioned it bothered me.
Anywho to try and cut this long story short, I had 4 sessions of IPL on my sideburns and upper lip. Initially my sideburns were shaved (standard practice) prior to the IPL. I had 4 weeks in between treatments and what I thought were results, was actually just the delayed growth due to the shaving on each visit. I personally don’t think the IPL had any effect on the hair as there was no shedding in between. My savvy colleagues had then caught onto Laser hair removal and were getting bikini areas done to which rave reviews all round. I then switched from IPL to Laser. Boy was that a bad decision.
Of course according to the clinic, yes I was a perfect candidate and most definitely the laser would work . I am of medium skin colour and tan easily , the hairs on my face were black but very fine (cringing as I’m typing this - hindsight is always 20/20). I had 6 sessions in total, with a Candela Gentlelase - the settings i’m not quite sure of. Walking away after each session, I was happy with the “results” the surface hair had been removed. And after two weeks time I did experience the shedding of hair. [b]After my 5th treatment, during the break period I noticed that although my sideburns had been removed the fine downy hair that coated my cheeks were now no longer fine but dark, and alot thicker (correct term being terminal hairs). As well as hairs sprouting on my neck. In a panic, I called the owner of the clinic who reassured me this was not a problem and to see her on my next visit. At this stage, I then started to google keywords such as “laser stimulated hair growth” I came across so many other posts which made me really anxious about what was happening to me and also stumbled upon this website. On my visit I mentioned that could this possibly be the result of laser induced hypertrichosis? A terminology I picked up from my Google search.[/b] The owner assured me, no definitely not. The hair growth was nothing out of the norm and she had seen worse, zapped the hair as per usual and told me if I had any worries or questions not to hesitate and contact her.
After the 6th session all was fine for up to 8 weeks, I then noticed I practically had grown a beard overnight! All the fine vellus hair that covered my cheeks and jawline had turned terminal. Sometimes during my laser sessions the technician would say Oh you’ve just got a dark hair here, i’ll zap it for you. This would be in random spots on my neck. I noticed I now had a number of dark hairs around 7-8 on my neck. I KNOW for a fact, this was all laser stimulated hair. I had gone and caused myself a problem, when I practically didn’t even have one to start off with. I gave up on returning back to laser, after all the research I did thereafter I knew I was one of the unfortunate’s who managed to get laser induced hair growth. Suing is also not an option in New Zealand.
The worse part of it all was not only the visual of the hair that had grown (in a beardlike pattern - along the front of my cheeks), but the coarse sound when I rubbed my hand against my face. This absolutely shattered my self esteem and I kicked myself everyday for my stupid uninformed decision I had made.
I then came across Electrolysis as a form of hair removal, this time round I did extensive research. Such as post electrolysis effects, and does electrolysis stimulate hair growth ? I was so wary of the consequences of hair removal. I only came across positive reviews and reassuring posts.
5 months ago I started my electrolysis journey, the lady I have been going to has done such a fantastic job. I can’t believe the results and am so wrapped I’m looking into doing a course in electrolysis myself to help others.
To those who may be sitting here reading this post, considering hair removal options (mainly laser) for yourself. Please please do your research, speak to those who have undergone treatments themselves. From what I’ve learnt, laser only works on COARSE dark hair, preferably on fair skin. And should really not be performed on females from the neck up because it is such a hormonal area. I am not a professional but am only speaking from my own experience. I would recommend electrolysis to all and I really wish that I had chosen it from the start.
Kind Regards
Mel
I meant people who were unable to realize their own expectations or those that were created at the beginning of the treatments.
I applaud!
