IT HURTS!!

One more thing, the reason she took the label off the machine is because if you knew the name of the machine, you could plug it into a google.com search engine and pull up numerous sites that proclaim this thing a scam.

If her machine is new, it is a “Super Phaser Gold”, if she bought it used from the last sucker, it is a “TE” system and she paid less for it than you gave her for her so-called treatment plan. If it were a GHRS then she may have bought it at that very flea market for $20.00!

But the bottom line is if you knew what the machine was called, you could either purchase one yourself, and/or, find out that it is a scam by doing a simple web search.

I met her at the flee market, but her shop is in this pvery small plaza beside a strip club, and a big trucking company next to the plaza.
I wish I would have known what to check for before I went to her.
It’s a pretty dirty small nail and tanning salon.

She kept telling me that the only reason shes there is because she moved to california, and the place she had before was much bigger.
Also she keeps mentioning the doctors that come to her for treatment that I never saw so she plans to move up north a little bit to boca raton to a much nicer area.
Supposedly this little shop is only a temporary place.


I visited another woman nearby that I found on http://electrolysisbydebra.com/

Just wanted to get your opinion if I should start saving up again or forget about this one.

She said she would sharge me $50 per hour to do blend electrolysis on my face.
She’s a state licensed electrologist.
Certifies clinical electrologist.
Licensed skin care specialist.
Electrolysis Association of Florida.

When I visited her, she did a sample treatment on my face.
It was hurting so she moved to my chin.
It still hurt a little.
Her machine does blend method, and blows air for comfort.
She said it would tske about 10-12 sessions just to get my current hairs out.
Then I would come back once or a week or once every 2 weeks for about a year maybe less in order to eliminate the regrowth.

Her office was in a proffesional office plaza with doctors/dentists/lawyers etc.
Small but clean.
She only does this electrolysis and wax.
Do you think that sounds correct about the length of time it will take?
Does $50 per session seem ok?

I forgot the name of the machine she uses, but she uses the needle blend thing that goes into the root and causes the chemical reaction that kills it and hurts.

[ December 11, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: hairman ]

I would suggest that you call around and try to find someone who has an Apilus machine or a Silhouet-Tone VMC. If you can’t find someone with these, then I would see how many people have CPE’s and then CCE’s (the practitioner you mentioned is a CCE) and if all else fails, come visit me for a weekend jumpstart :wink:

I should point out that the machine you describe is made on a very old model (if it is not itself a very old model) and is not the most comfortable equipment out there. If you find someone who has one of the things I mentioned in the previous post, you will have a much more comfortable session.

As for time, the quickest one could clear anything is 9 months, but for what you are talking about, expect treatment spread out over 18 to 24 months. It will start out long treatments close together, and will shrink steadily to shorter treatments far apart.

Since the national average is $60 per hour, $50 sounds like a bargan to me. The most expensive person in my area (not me) is charging, and getting $150 per hour (and she is using an electrolysis machine just as old as the one you are talking about). My clients get more treatment per hour, and finish faster.

Like we said, call around and get a sample treatment from as many people in your area as possible. There is no other way to find out who is the best available practitioner near you.

Thanks James.
I would come see you, but your pretty far.
But I’ll definitly keep those machines in mind when I check around on my free time.

24 months seems a really long time.
But that I guess that’s what it takes, I just have to accept that.

I figure I can start with about 4 sessions a week for 4 weeks to deal with the original hairs.
At $50 per session - that would come out to $800.

Then I would go for about 2 sessions a week for about 4 weeks to deal with regrowth.
That would be $400.

Then once a week for 4 weeks.
That would be $200.

Then once every 2 weeks for the next 16 weeks.
That would be $400.

The total for this time is 28 weeks.
$1800.

After, Id be going once a month.
By this time, I should be making enough to afford $50 per month to take care of the remaining regrowths.


Im going to take this woman to small claims and hopefully get my $900 back.
Then all I’d have to do is save up another $900 to start the treatments over.


If this $50 pers session is the best deal I can find, would she still do it just as effectivly with her old machine?

Not knowing her skill, or what machine she is using, I can’t really say what she can do. The older the machine, the fewer hairs per square inch you can work on before you have to move out of the general area. We don’t know what her speed of epilation is, and we don’t know what your insertion angles are like either.

The big advantage to the newer machines is that since you can work more hairs in a given area, one can do faster work, because one can get more hairs in a single square inche just by pivoting the probe after an insertion. It is easy to see how the work will go quicker when you go from 4 hairs per square inch and moving on, to perhaps ten or 20 hairs in a square inche.

One other thing I should point out. Once your electrologist catches up to your growth cycle, you will look like you are done, even though you are continueing to have appointments on a regular basis. Electrologists are able to remove hairs that you, and the general public can’t even see yet.

Thanks for the tips.
It really helps me immensly.


I met a woman today that was also being treated by Beverly Pritchard-(the woman that I want to take to court).
The woman is a customer/patient of Beverly’s just like myself.
This woman completely feels confident that the transdermal is working for her correctly.

The woman had been going to the needle electrolysis which resulted in bumps on her skin and had no effect.
She showed me the bumps and everything.

She came to Beverly Pritchard for the transedermal.
She started last week (the day after I did).
The woman said she attended 2 sessions.
She said her hairs slid out perfect and painless after the electric swab was applied.

I don’t understand why it worked for this woman.

The owner claims to be using a machine and system from the California Clinic of Dermology. She even called them up, and they told me that their transdermal hair removal machine permanently removes hair.

They also said that they have a letter from the FDA approving them, but I still haven’t seen it.


I am going to proceed to take her to small claims court to try to get my money back.
My only problem is, how can I provide an expert or solid evidence to prove that transdermal does not work and is illegal to be promoted as permanent.

How can I dispute a letter from the FDA that says she’s real and approved?

[ December 12, 2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: hairman ]

I just found this out.
This is the company that provided the machine:
http://www.hairfacts.com/makers/etweezer/ahrsco.html
Those are the people that are also know as Calrolina Clinic of Dermology.
Ruth is the main correspondant there.

I have to be able to prove in court that their transdermal device does not permanently remove hair.

The correspondence between Andrea and the owner left it unclear as to weather it works or not.

Dear Andrea,
Please respond, and let me know if you have any input.
You mentiones earlier that their super phaser gold is a scam.
Were you ever able to get any solid evidence proving that AHRS doesnt work?

[ December 12, 2002, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: hairman ]

Please go to the page http://www.hairfacts.com/scams.html
and after you read all that, click on the link in there somewhere where you will notice that Andrea offers to help you sue these people to get your money back. You will get quicker responce that way. After all, she can’t be reading all these post strings every day :fearful:

Oh yeah, see if you can find anyone who has used this method who has had hairlessness for even one year after “final treatment”. You won’t be able to find one verifiable case. :angry:

Dude, why dont you just shave?? Perhaps all this trouble is a sign from God…

Dearest Shaun:

If you were paying attention, you would have found that the reason many men get facial hair removal is because shaving is NOT a viable option.
:angry:

If one has trouble with ingrown hairs, these lead to pain, suffering, and infections. The problem is, if you can’t shave, you can’t make as much money in this appearance obsessed world.

I have clients from a security agency who actually end up getting paid to get electrolysis because having the face cleared gains them a $4 per hour pay raise, and gets them off working crappy assignments overnights, and into suit and tie jobs in the 8 to 4pm slots.

Do you really think that anyone looks into electrolysis just because they want to spend a year having a part of their body flash cooked?

[ January 09, 2003, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: James W. Walker VII, CPE ]

Hi.
I checked out this site
http://www.hairfacts.com/scams.html
I couldn’t really find any hard evidence that proves that her machine is fake.
During court, my opponent can find people that will testify on her behalf that it worked for them.
And she gets inspected, but never shut down.
I don’t know how to produce evidence that there is really no way to prove that transdermal works.
I don’t even know exactly wich machine she got.
The oly thing I do know is that the manufacturer is AHRS.
They claim to have a letter from the FDA saying that their machine works.

First you have to go through the whole thing. That one page alone will not give you all the info you need. Secondly, you can contact the FDA yourself. They are well informed about this so called FDA letter that they have told all these scammers to stop using. Lastly, there is someplace on hairfacts a page where a scientific study is posted showing that hair can not conduct electricity, and in fact that these devices, no matter who makes them, disperse current throughout the dermis, but not the lower regions of the follicle.

You don’t need to prove that her machine doesn’t work, you only need to prove that the FDA says that only probe electrolysis provides permanent hair removal and that she advertised herself to be offering permanent hair removal without using a needle/probe method.

Now isn’t that a much easier burden of proof? She will have to show something to the court that convinces the court that they have something the FDA has not approved, but works anyway. The only thing positive the FDA ever said about any tweezer/gel machine is that they could be used for probe insertion by which they would actually effect permanent hair removal if the standard electrolysis method were utilized by the practitioner working the machine. Nothing shows any case for permanent hair removal with energy dispersed into the skin via electrode gel.

Here’s a letter from FDA about these devices:

Hairfacts: FDA letter on cotton swab epilators

You will need to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and see if you can resolve the issue before going to small claims court.

OK
Thanks!
Im going to do that right away.

Bad news!
I finally got an email from the FDA.
They say there is no evidence that transdermal is not permanent.

Here:
NO evidence is available from FDA that transdermal electrolysis does NOT
permanently remove hair because FDA has never approved a transdermal device.
We do not have ANY information on the performance of these devices. They
are not considered exempt devices because they work on a different
fundamental scientific technology. As far as microdermabrasion devices,
they are exempt for the following indications: scar revision, tattoo
removal and general dermabrasion. Note that hair removal is not in this
list. This indication would require a premarket submission and we have not
cleared a microdermabrasion device for hair removal.

Needle epilators are also exempt, but they have always been able to say
permanent.

Phyllis Weller

I still dont really understand what they mean exempt.
Does this mean that I’d be wasting my time trying o get my money back in court?

First of all, anyone who has not gone through 9 months of this scam will think it is working. After all, one doesn’t see any hair for 3 weeks at a time. Once the 9 months are over, they start to realize that all hairs have goine through their cycle, and they are still having the same number of treatments, at the same duration every week. Ask her to find a person who has done 9 months of treatment, and has gone 2 years without a treatment who is STILL happy, and believes that they got permanent hair removal.
:roll_eyes:

How do you figure that FDA letter is bad news?

She says the FDA has cleared the machine for permanent hair removal. She has said that she can use the machine for “microdermabrasion” as well.

The FDA just told you that they have NOT approved any such device for any such claim! They also said that one would need PREMARKET APPROVAL to sell a machine that was purported to be a mocrodermabrasion machine that also delivered permanent hair removal, and no such thing exists.

As for your expert witnesses, I am sure that any TRUE electrologist in your area will testify on your behalf. They are all familiar with this scam. May I suggest that you talk to
Patricia McDonald, Registered Electrologist
2669 E Commercial Blvd
Fort Lauderdale FL 33308
954-599-5158

Now, as for how you show this on your own, you can go read and make copies of these pages and click all the links on these pages (they are the words in blue) and print those too. Any BBB person and any judge can use these to get an eye full on what a scam this thing is, and get the idea that the so called practitioner is a scam artist as well. Florida has one of the most strict electrolysis licensing requirements in the nation. If this woman were in fact an electrologist, she would have to be licensed in the state of Florida, and she is not. The judge will not take kindly a person pawning herself off at being an alternative to a licensed profession, while scamming people out of thousands of dollars.
:angry:

And now, as promised, the links.

http://www.hairfacts.com/medpubs/hairgen/feughelman.html
http://www.hairfacts.com/makers/etweezer/ihrs/fdaviolations.html
http://www.hairfacts.com/makers/etweezer/ihrs/fda1001.html
http://www.hairfacts.com/makers/etweezer/ihrs/ftcactions.html
http://www.hairfacts.com/medpubs/etweez/verdich.html
http://www.hairfacts.com/medpubs/etweez/vanorden.html
http://www.hairfacts.com/makers/transcutmfr.html
http://www.hairfacts.com/scams.html

[ January 09, 2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: James W. Walker VII, CPE ]

Thanks!
I will make all the copies and contanct your recommendation.
Once I do that, I will proceed with the small claims court.

You should also contact the Better Business Bureau, who can assist you in resolving this issue.