Help needed for hair issues PCOS: hirustism, laser / electrolysis choice

Special Issues PCOS (Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome)
#1

Hi there,

I hope you can help me.

I am a 32 year old female, I have been diagnosed with PCOS some years ago.
The hair on my face and body has been affecting me since puberty. I am not on medication since the side effects of birth control pills and the like are too severe for me (depression etc).
(Sidenote: I also have insulin resistance and tend to gain weight. I am on a diet and work out regularly to keep it under control and I try to get my previous weight back. I slacked of from the diet because of stress, but I am not letting that happen again, I gained about 10 kg in one year. Not worth it. Normal weight is 56-58 kg, currently I weigh 66 but intend to lose 8-10 kg. I am 167 cm. “tall”.)

I have tried so far:

  • shaving on body. Stubbles after one day, visual hair from day 2. A complete shave takes 30-45 minutes.
  • tweezing of facial fair. Its the method I use most of the time, shaving only when I get other treatments there, since that causes noticeable stubble.
  • professional waxing of legs, about 5 times. Hair started to grow back in like 5 days, but not all of it, so was more manageable with a quick shave. Lots of painful ingrown hairs, I won’t do that again.
  • professional IPL removal (various beauty centres, dermatologist etc…) 8 treatments on legs + bikini line + lower stomach, 5 on face. Planned to get underarms done after seeing results, but never came this far. Hair grew back slower, but I didn’t see much of a difference in the long run. This was 5/6 years ago.
  • at home IPL removal (Philips Lumea) about 50 treatments on legs + bikini line + lower stomach + underarms + face. Hair grew back slower, but I didn’t see much of a difference in the long run. This was 2/3 years ago.
    -at home laser hair removal, only on my face (Tria by Beurer LAS 50 Haarentfernungslaser Precision) For the course of 2 months I did a treatment every other day. It is not recommended, nor does it work. But I was and desperate.

During the last couple of years I repeatedly let body hair grow out, since I am too sick and tired of constantly removing it. I have now ridiculously patchy lower leg hair. I focus my energy for removing hair on my face, because that is sooo noticeable. I also find it quite stupid that woman must remove all body hair in order to be “normal”. But then again, I would love to feel pretty again… I think that would mean either all hairs on legs, underarms etc removed (permanently please…), or just super fine blonde hair would be awesome.

Could you please help me finding the right method of hair removal for me?

I have blue eyes, ashy medium brown hair (was blonde as a child), my body hair looks wirey and quite dark on my legs, underarms depend on lightning very much, stubble on face seem dark at first sight, but as I pull them out, the root looks blonde/reddish (mustache area).

1 Like
#2

Pictures:

Lower legs with lotion to show patchiness:

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Shin detail:

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Armpits in natural lightning, black cable for color reference:

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#3
  1. Electrolysis is the only method which permanently remove any kind of hair in any place of the body.
  2. Outcome from the Laser and IPL is not predictable. The result vary from some reduction of the hair, make nothing and even induce more hair. I am not a laser specialist but looking your pictures I think you are NOT a good candidate for Laser and IPL. Laser requires dense, coarse black hair to work.
  3. Never do laser or IPL on face.(This my opinion. Others may not agree.)
    4.My suggestion is to find good electrologist who is willing to do marathon sessions, uses good vision aid for precise probe insertion and is able to work with both modalities-Thermolysis and Blend. Make test and if the result is ok, then you can commit to start treatments.

Dimi

1 Like
#4

Thanks for your reply. After reading through this forum, I suspected this as well. Sadly. But it does explain why my IPL treatments have yielded such a bad result…
I have contacted 2 electrolysis professionals, hope all goes well from now on.

#5

Good luck.
Give us please feedback after your consultations with the electrologists.

#6

I agree with Dimi on EVERYTHING including that I dont recommend laser or ipl for the face.
Waxing and IPL will have NO PERMANENT effect.
Electrolysis is an effective treatment for hirsutism cause by PCOS, but the PCOS MUST be treated to stop additional hair from growing. Sometimes this is accomplished with antiandrogenic drugs ( ex spironolactone) other times a dietary approach yields better results.

I also note your hair doesnt appear dense, and since laser is most effective against dense hair , electrolysis is the better approach.

Sorry I’m a little short with my exlanation, I have a client waiting…

#7

Hiya,
If it will help, I can add my opinion as laser and electrolysis practitioner. And my opinion is the same as those of both colleagues above. You said your hair is blond/light brown. If you look at your hair really closely you’ll notice that even the ones you see as dark on your body, are glossy rather than pigment-dense. This means there are less molecules of pigment and more air bubbles in the hair core. For laser and ipl to work, there needs to be texture and dense dark pigment in the hair. This is way it hasn’t worked that well for you.
Good luck with the electrolysis consults! Keep us updated please.

#8

Thanks for your input. I had my first appointment yesterday. Nice lady, made me feel comfortable and answered all questions. Works full time as an electrologist and seems to know what she is doing. Worked 15 minutes on chin to give me an idea of what I am getting into and to try out what settings she needs. Seemed to work very carefully. On difficult hairs she reinserted multiple times. I don’t think I have felt tugging, but I am not completely sure, since the feeling of the small shocks was so present…
I also wonder if using a magnifying glass (with bright light surrounding) is good enough?
She charges 100 Euro/ hour, no discounts or prepaid options. That’s a bummer for me, but I understand that good work comes with a price tag.
I have an appointment with the other full time electrologist in the city, but she would charge 25 Euro if I want to try it out. Is that usual/ acceptable?

#9

Also, the electrologist where I was yesterday estimated she would need in total:
10-20 hours for my face (I plucked 2 weeks ago, so hard to tell)
15 for lower legs
15 for upper legs
15 for underarms
(Legs and underarms are as in the pictures above, she told me at this length she can work quickly)

#10

As far as I can tell, this electrologist you saw yesterday sounds good. She offered a trial treatment, you felt no tugging, she was able to offer estimate times. The price does seem very high, but if her estimates are accurate, then I would personally be more than happy to pay that price.

As for the other electrologist appointment, charging for an initial consultation and trial is unusual, and yes, I would say it is personally unacceptable for me. I can almost guarantee the electrologist will waive the 25 euro fee if you request it. It wouldn’t be a great start to the client-practitioner relationship, but then neither is charging a consultation and trial fee in the first place. It tells me the electrologist is not so great at business, not that they’re bad at electrolysis, which is totally separate. So you might find that you prefer that electrologist instead.

It sounds like you’re on the right path.

#11

I would think scurvy that the other electrologist has simply bundled a short treatment with the consultation and thus the 25 dollar charge. Many do this and it wouldnt be a deal breaker for me.

I know I’ve had clients come for a consult and have really confused looks on their faces when I tell them “no charge for the consultation” and I get responses like " but you did a treatment too" and my usual response is that “that’s okay, it was just a trial treatment and is my opportunity to demonstrate to you what we can do” .

#12

Sure, I can think of a strict few legitimate reasons why someone may charge a fee in this or similar industries, but from a business perspective, I’d argue and recommend that it’s better to not charge in almost every case. I’d be willing to pay a reasonable fee in a few situations, too, but I digress. A fee would generally make me less interested in that electrologist, so I guess I would have to be really impressed with their practice and the results they can promise to continue with them.

It will be interesting to hear of a comparison between the two trial treatments.

#13

Ok, I’ll go to the appointment and see from there.

Meanwhile, the first electrolysis-person sends confusing info after a question I asked per e-mail.

I hope you can answer this question from your perspective and experience:
With optimal timing, how often do you need to fully clear a full leg? How many hours would it take in total if the first clearance takes 6-8 hours?

#14

A co-worker of the 2nd electrologist cancelled the appointment, apparently she is ill. I also read that an ex-client had no result in that studio, so I think I won’t even make an new appointment. The one I have now is good I think. Just expensive. But better that than sloppy work.

Another question: if your wear latex gloves (for hygiene purposes I assume), what do you do if you need to touch your phone to make a before picture, or open the door for the next client?

#15

That’s easy. I dont use latex gloves, ever I use nitrile. There are a fair number of people out there with sensativities to latex, so for me this is a no brainer. I like the feel of nitrile better than vinyl or latex gloves. And they work for touchscreens, though in a pinch I always have 1 or 2 touchscreen pens by my treatment table anyway, for use on the Xcell, which is touch screen controlled.

#16

When deciding on your method of choice, the first question is “can this method destroy the stem cells in the bulge region?” if not, then you will never have a permanent result with that method. The stem cells are your target, not the root of the hair. This is scientifically proven.
Hence the reason why Electrolysis is the only method that can claim to be permanent.
Now you need to decide which method of Electrolysis you feel comfortable with
Thermolysis and Blend - fast convenient and instant results however very high regrowth it is my estimation based on years of experience the regrowth is approx 90% hence can take a number of years before completed,that is you never have to return for further treatment. This method is perfect for certain lifestyles, receptionists etc. that are concerned about appearance - healing phase
Multi probe Galvanic electrolysis - can use up to 32 probes with a minimum of 3-4 minutes in each follicle, however an extremely low regrowth (5-10% on average) and completion time for full face with a complete strip that is finished for life, is 12-18 months. Please understand that not all galvanic users will achieve these results. Settings are vital to success. I have spent the past 30 years working with scientists, engineers, consultants to perfect this method and feel very confident now I have it right.
To make an informed decision, that will work for you, you need to try both - a suggestion is to strip say the face a few times with thermolysis or blend, to get you comfortable, then swap to Galvanic multi to complete.

#17

permanence,
Could you please send us your scientific proofs that Thermolysis and Blend methods have 90% hair regrowth?

#18

Please understand I never referred to clinical trials or scientific proof. As you would be aware, there have never been clinical trials done on blend, this is my experience from years of personal testing with thermolysis. You can do trials yourself and work out what results you get. Will be great to compare what you come up with. I am interested to know how others work out their percentages - great topic for a discussion and should bring out some great evaluation processes from others including yourself
My Process:
We know that thermolysis works on hairs in the growing stage.
We can identify a growing hair after we have removed it by the sheath having no signs of dehydration
My simple formula is how many hairs out of every 10 extracted, are growing.
I have run this formula so many times I am very confident in my outcome. No, it is not scientific, but we have enough information to work it out - Try it, its fun!

#19

Sorry, but my experience(and many other electrologists in this forum) is that Thermolysis, Blend and Galvanic modality can be used to kill any hair in any stage (anagen,catagen and telogen) and the time to do that is the same 12-18 months.
I am using a microscope and with precise probe insertion I can achieve less than 5% true regrowth with thermolysis or blend. My formula is to kill every hair which can be seen out of the skin.

#20

Thanks for getting involved. Would love to explore thermolysis a little more with you. All schools, to my knowledge, teach that thermolysis, to be successful requires the hair to be in the growing phase which you acknowledged upfront.
What has changed for you and others, that make this possible to treat these hair in the resting/changing phase now? I would never underestimate that most electrologists would have very accurate insertions, knowing that is what they do all day every day and most people in this industry have a passion for this type of work. So my apologies if you felt i was under-rating a persons accuracy- it was never my intention.
Can you educate us more on how your formula works to achieve these results? How you discovered it? any any information that would be helpful to the thermolysis industry, of which I am part of. Greatly appreciated