Can we all just blame those damn beans for everything and be happy:
P.S. Is it weird that I started counting them? I need help lol
I am NOT a rockstar electrologist!!!
The problem with invisible electrologist rockstars is that all that effort goes unnoticed. Many know that Rita Hayworth underwent electrolysis in order to change her Latin appearance, but how many know the name of the person who carried out the treatments? I wonder if Mrs. Ethel Rifkin would have wanted or been able to maintain her anonymity in the age of technology.
There are many consumers who come to Hairtell to present their doubts and concerns before or during the electrolysis or laser process, but very few who return to tell how everything ended, especially if it is a happy ending. Apparently that was Narma’s purpose. His “unforgivable” error for which he is being strongly condemned, was reversing the order of events and tell his success story beginning at the end. I guess because of his youth, competitive spirit, and why not, a little fun, he put to the test the knowledge of some experts involved here (myself included). As it was logical, the few experts who participated at the beginning did not disappoint and their answers deserve the qualification of outstanding, Dimi, Dee Fahey and Michael Bono. But then things got complicated and the hypothetical percentages, along with Zapmyface and his eternal search for “the truth”, as well as his obsession to rid the world of “dark conspiracies”, entered the scene.
I agree on this, Zapmyface is a smart guy who finds fun in conflicts. He is so smart that he found Michael’s Achilles heel. Michael hates praise for both himself and others. So Zapmyface makes sure to insist on those “miraculous” results on every occasion. In this way, he pisses off more and more the man who dared to publicly reject him. At the same time, he enjoys watching how we face each other. Good move, dear, you’ve done checkmate!
You have my purpose and intention spot on, that is the most important thing. I lose absolutely no sleep over this.
I’m immune to such criticism unless it’s constructive in which case I thrive on it to continuously improve myself. This is the fairest approach, sensible no?
So to the detractors, now knowing that you can’t affect me, will you persist in this madness in which ultimately you harm only yourself?
I do not wish that you perish in your rage and wish you nothing but the best in life and health. We are all human, I forgive you guys. No hard feelings.
Thank you for noticing, ‘’dear’’, I thought no one ever would! This finally accomplishes my long-awaited revenge on electrologists, since one of you did scars on my face.
I feel AMAAAZING to have caused this much chaos!
(Evil mastermind response)
Well if you’re all ‘’facing each other’’ like you say, wouldn’t it mean that there are in fact valid points to be examined? I guess you’re right in saying that I’m enjoying the debates/conflicts, but maybe not for the reasons you think…
(Defensive response)
I guess we’re not blaming the beans after all!
I’m not getting treated by her either lol.
(Funny response)
I don’t think it matters what I say at this point, so I’ll let you all choose your favourite response!
The reality of this excruciatingly long thread is that nothing new came of it and nothing was learned. A few ruffled feathers here and there, but we will all do quite well because, again, nothing happened. And, that’s the nature of pretty much ALL on-line blogs such as this.
True progress in the field requires study, experimentation and scholarship. The only valid mediums are written papers, books or … drum roll … videos. I suppose I also have a diabolical side like zapmyface. Otherwise I wouldn’t get on this site at all.
Funny thing, after reading Jossie’s post I’m re-thinking NARMA.
He probably did his post without malevolent intentions. (Didn’t expect the reaction it engendered.) Now I see the potential fun in what he was doing.
The combination of “spark plug” zapmyface (the liar stuff) and my sensitivities ramped this up (at least in my own mind). Yeah, I felt like a knife in the back … but so what? Who cares?
On to the next atrocity …
Comments that are personally detracting are not allowed here. See the post “No personal Attacks” . That’s why you’ll never ever see me commenting in a poor light against another poster here.
Challenging the concepts or assertions made, is however fair game.
For this reason, I’m not likely to be “consumed with rage”.
Since it’s been indicated I’m “overly supportive” of folks around here, well, there 's good reason for that.
Did you know that I’m consumed with hate against Michael ( oh and Josepha too by the way!) ? Well, probably not, because it’s not true. But that was the popular conception around here, I had a “severe hate on” for Michael because of something he did here, and it amounted, to taking unfair potshots at a long time rival here, in which he was advising one of their clients to take pictures and post them here while suing said other electrologist at the same time. Seems a good reason when you know all the details right? Except for that little bit about truth getting in the way, because it simply isnt the truth.
I’m supportive of anyone who contributes to the wealth of knowledge here at hairtell. Experience here has shown me that “my electrologist is better than you all” is generally, a very unproductive argument, there are no winners, only losers.
It happens that every so often a consumer comes along who for whatever reason feels it their duty to “expose such bad treatment” or whatever other transgression they feel one of the professionals here have made. It’s happened to three senior members of hairtell, Michael, James, and Josepha and I’m still waiting on my turn, I’m sure it’s coming!
As a result I’ve always tried to determine what is the most ethical approach to such situations. Clearly, if any member of this team ( and make no mistake about it, people like me, Dee, Josepha , Michael, dimi, Emancipated Elect, Beate, and others are VERY MUCH operating as a team) any unprofessional behaviour that affects that teams performance is very quickly rooted out , exposed, and then, put to bed.We all contribute here ( to no benefit of ourselves) .
That ethic, extends both ways.If a consumer comes here with an agenda, a post that effectively trolls against another user to the benefit of their electrologist, that falls pretty far from the ethics we try to have around here. A post to that effect isnt a lot different than one of us advising a client of another to take pictures of their private spaces in their office and exposing it to show what a horrible electrologist they are. Pretty much intentional trolls, are detrimental to everything we try and accomplish around here, and so, you will find me commenting of the FACTS of such cases, without degenerating into personal attacks or hate. Sorry but I wont be burning up in a firey ball anytime soon.I think that’s true of most of the professionals here, you might get under the skin of one on rare occasion, but you’ll find that we pretty quickly rally around and put the issue to bed, ETHICALLY. If your post isnt in good faith, it isnt ethical.
Seana
I’m more interested in what YOU learned. Were your valid points addressed? Lets find out.
The bulk of your assertion, has been that Josephas success was “an impossibility”. There were too many hidden hairs to have such a result. Well, let me throw another wrench into the works, supposing , just supposing, someone other than Josepha used the same methods she does to obtain those results? Would you expect those results to be equal to, better than, or worse than those achieved by Josepha? There’s a really easy way to test this theory!
See here’s what I’m getting at. Josepha ( and me too) have long maintained that her results can easily be duplicated, by simply using the same approach and methods. So in theory at least, if you were to come see me, and we treated the area identically to how she would have done it, would my results be as good? I know I definitely lack the 35 years experience she does working with her protocol, would that make a huge difference do you think?
I never assumed it was impossible, the whole point was that it SEEMED to be extremely ahead of everyone else (and yes I hate that comparing crap too, but for this thread’s argument it’s sadly necessary). And then figure out why that is, and if whatever she’s doing is different (or in this case ‘‘better’’), how exactly?
I learned a lot from this thread actually, and not just about electro. Most of the questions have been answered. There are, however, still uncertain aspects remaining that can only be fulfilled with, I’m guessing, experiencing it myself. A big part in me asking those questions were about, like you just said, being able to duplicate it for myself!
I’d expect more or less the same results if all the variables were the same, who wouldn’t? Parameters in the machine can be perfectly replicated, so does treating every hair until it slides easily. The 2 differences I can think of are the usage of anesthetic (none vs injected vs EMLA) and operator skill, aka that ‘‘uncertainty aspect’’ (I’m guessing depth of the needle and maybe angle). I think that last variable alone can MULTIPLY the TTT, but that’s just my opinion… Are there other variables we should be aware for our little test?
Ok let me explain a little more fully.
Josepha follows an entire protocol for this kind of work.It’s based on what she has found to work.
I am assuming, maybe incorrectly, that she did blend on this client? If so she would be leaving heated lye in the follicle post treatment in addition to having dispersed enough energy to adequately release the hair. She would treat that hair ferociously, in her words “like it’s the only hair that is important” . She would use a specific probe ( which I wont mention because I dont endorse that makers products) . She would prohibit the client from shaving or doing anything else to the hair for 6 months before.She would carefully control the timing between treatments. This and more, adds to the “recipe” that is that “protocol”.
My question to you is this, can anyone, following that recipe that she has developed over 35 years, attain the same results as she does? Working with skill and accuracy?
The fact is, anyone, doing the same things, can accomplish the same results. But most/many refuse to even try.If you never try something, then you wont ever accomplish it.
And I’m sorry, the multiple depth technique , ( the multiple pulses at different depth of insertion) while a useful technique, does not hold up to the kill rate of accurate insertions to begin with.This is a skill that Josepha has in spades. Having watched countless hours of her working with an electrolysis probe I can tell you that her instincts are excellent ( spot on) and this is something you dont accomplish without great experience.
It was said that both cases (the feet and the 2 clearances on the face) were thermolysis!
For the feet example, one single appointment of 72min was needed to remove almost every single hair, there are like 5 remaining in the ‘‘after’’ pic. That is literally a 90% (or more) kill rate, or should I even dare to say 100% if we assume that not all hairs were present at the time of the treatment (could very well be possible). Either way, let’s agree that it was an almost perfect treatment and outcome. Not 3 or 10 appointments, ONE. Let’s assume the worse and say that NARMA had trimmed the hair during those 6 months (he stated he already trimmed it, but unknown if it was during those months prior to his treatment), worst case scenario (considering the very thin variables of this case) would be 2 clearances instead of 1, with the same total time, 72min!!!
And I hate to be falling into Josefa’s narrative that I’m ‘‘poking’’ Michael by always reminding everyone that her treatments are ‘‘miraculous’’, but, let’s face it, it pretty much can’t get any better in terms of outcome, that’s just a damn fact.
For the face example, the client didn’t shave for 2 weeks before the appointment, nothing special there, and I quote:
The point is that an almost perfect kill rate is observed here too, with only 2 clearances, we can notice a significant reduction ON A DAMN MALE BEARD, you know, that thing everyone says it takes so much time to complete for whatever reason? As opposed to 1 clearance for the feet, and that’s because the face had a much higher % of hidden hairs! And not only that, but according to that quote, I can only assume that more hairs could’ve been treated if the beard was untouched for a longer period of time prior to the appointment. Same, yet amazingly low, TTT too (46h)!
While I understand the timings and protocols are important, these 2 cases don’t really present anything special, wouldn’t you say? And if those cases worked extremely well, it’s safe to assume similar cases WITH followed protocols should at the very least be just as effective, no? But where is the fucking improvement when there’s already a near-perfect kill rate, it might subtract 1 or 2 clearances depending on % of visible hairs, but it changes absolutely nothing to the TTT.
So can this really be duplicated? If so, good! I wanna figure out how exactly, damn it. And it’s what I’ve been trying to do! I know, I know, there will always be some parts that can’t be certain or explained.
You’re right, I apparently had forgotten that tidbit. Josepha got known for doing mostly fast blend, but I’ve recently determined she works just as often in strait thermolysis. There’s more proof for you, that modality doesnt matter.
And yes it can be duplicated. actually I near drove myself crazy trying to do exactly that back in the day, what exactly is the recipe? But in reality, you dont have enough knowledge to duplicate it, and we cant really teach you, without you having that firm base of knowledge. I can tell you it’s all a process of stacking the odds in your favour, in every avenueand with every decision about the treatment.
I didn’t necessarily mean myself doing the zapping, I can technically ‘‘make’’ someone do it too. And I kinda have already (4h on my face test to see the regrowth, I’ve shown you pics of this already). Like you said I don’t think modality or ‘‘settings’’ are a major factor, as long as the hair slides well it should be the same, right? Unless cranking up the current would have a much positive effect that can actually DIVIDE THE TTT BY A FEW NUMBERS.
As much as I would like to believe that it can be duplicated, it hasn’t even come close, yet all the right odds seemed to have been ‘‘stacked in my favour’’ in the test too (asked many questions about this). I’ve said it many times before, I never thought my electrologist was crap, she’s done this for 20 years and has lots of references in the trans community here! So why does it take Josefa literally one clearance on the face to accomplish what mine does in AT LEAST 5? And yes, that’s a MULTIPLICATION OF 5 TIMES THE TTT too. Considering both electrologists are doing pretty much the same correct things with a baggage of experience on their hand, what makes the difference THIS great? Understand that I wouldn’t even care if it was more or less a few hours, but we’re talking about a multiplication here.
Please, please, please tell me you’re understanding my obsession with this here. And thank you for not taking offence in anything I’ve said too, I really do appreciate it. I know this is a touchy subject.
Zapmyface, I’m going to send you a private message, but please, stop insisting or you’ll go crazy. There are people who work the same or better than me, but because of your demand background (which I do not blame you) or because of your high expectations (induced by some of my cases) they are being extremely cautious and conservative in the treatments.
I’m not frustrated or upset.
LEt Josepha talk to you. She’s very correct that driving yourself crazy over this is not healthy.
Seana
Let’s say you need surgery and have a choice between 2 doctors. One offering a 90% chance of success but seems to be very ‘’out of reach’’ and the other only a 60% chance, but conveniently placed near your place and ready for it, what would you do? Accept that the lesser choice is what you’re only gonna get, or try to have the best possible treatment?
Maybe I’m going at it the wrong way by trying to understand HOW the best treatment are possible, but the goal is the same. Please don’t mistake my thirst for knowledge for some accusatory unhealthy obsession. I’ll gladly be waiting for that PM!
Doing the calculations:
LOL, I wanna be that lady who needs to ‘‘drop dead’’!
Best line, if you watched 'til the end, is:
“No matter how we figured it, somebody didn’t like how we figured it … so, now it’s ‘every man … including the old bag … for himself’!”
A good sense of humor cures everything.