Electrolysis experience after laser-induced hair growth

At the request of laserhater… Here is the long version of my story. I will post updates in the same thread.

From February through July, 2004, I had five treatments on the nape of my neck with the Candela GentleLASE laser to reduce the hair growth there. The intended goal was that I would not need to trim the hair in between haircuts (3-5 weeks). I had one treatment with the GentleLASE on my upper arms in an attempt to reduce the effects of the skin condition I have there known as keratosis pilaris. This is a condition similar to acne, except instead of plugging up with sebum, the sebaceous gland/hair follicle plugs up with keratin. One theory is that if the hair follicle is destroyed, the gland will be less likely to plug up.

I experienced no significant regrowth in between the laser treatments on my neck (4-6 weeks apart). The single treatment on my upper arms seemed to help the skin condition for about three months. Within three to six months of having the last treatment on my neck, I noticed significant hair growth–worse than before I started laser. I began shaving the back of my neck every other day to hide the growth, which went further down my neck than it ever was before the laser treatment. It appeared to be normal hair, just covering more of the area than before. I have also sprouted a few thick, light-colored hairs on my earlobes–I am not sure if the area of inflammation from my neck extended this far, or if these are a result of normal aging (I am a 23-year-old male). In addition, the area on my upper arms which was treated ONCE with the laser began to grow thick, dark, wiry hairs, which were not present before the treatment. There are a few on the edges of my shoulders, as well.

I read these forums with great interest, and went into the laser treatments knowing full well that they might not work, but I didn’t expect to end up worse off than I was before. It was not until this month that I garnered up the courage to visit an electrologist. If I lived close to James, Dee, or Fino, I would have gone a lot sooner!

My consultation appointment was 10/13/2005. The pain was not as bad as I had feared. The electrologist had free time after the consultation and worked for about an hour and a half using flash thermolysis, nearly clearing the nape of my neck, before it was time to close the office. The area was swollen and pink for a couple of days, and I only had one scab. I had my second appointment on 10/21/2005. The electrologist used flash again, but explained that she would like to switch to blend once there were a smaller number of hairs to treat. She didn’t go completely to the hairline, because I want to get another haircut before doing that, and there are a few hairs that I think were obscured by the collar of my shirt that weren’t zapped. Nonetheless, it’s a huge improvement. It wasn’t that painful, but I don’t see how people can fall asleep during treatment, either. Maybe my tolerance will increase, but right now I can’t see doing it for more than an hour or so at a time either.

My immediate goal is to clear my neck. I would also like to get my arms and shoulders back to where they were before laser treatment, but I am focusing on the neck first. I’m a fairly hairy guy, and have hair just about everywhere except the upper back. Long-term, assuming I have the time, money, and inclination, there are other areas I would like done. I am waiting to see some long-term results with this electrologist before I make a concerted effort to do areas other than the neck.

My next appointment is 11/1.

Best regards,

htky

Edit: I am keeping an Excel spreadsheet of hours logged, notes, and what areas were treated. My electrologist charges $70 per hour. Here is what I have so far:


Date       Hours    Area     
10/14/05   1.5      Nape
10/21/05   1.0      Nape
11/01/05    ? 

I find this post interesting. Are you saying, that you had a reduction first on the back of the neck…after your final treatment? Then suddenly bang you had more hair than before? Or are you saying that after your final treatment it all just grew back - without a reduction?

I would like to hear others opininons on this post especially people who have had laser. I personally am approx 2 months post 2nd treatment and my reduction is clearly noticeable - I cannot see why it would suddenly return or worsen. I go in for another treatment very soon But, I guess people do react differently.

I got the normal shedding post-treatment, and over a period of three to six months after the final treatment, I noticed that the hair gradually thickened. I would withhold judgment on your laser experience until 6-12 months after your final treatment or touch-up.

I have read other reports of this problem with the GentleLASE, especially at the larger spot sizes and the lower fluences that the larger spot sizes require. The best explanation I have heard is that it inflames the inactive hair follicles (some of them deep in the skin, because the larger spot size penetrates deeper), triggering them to start growing.

I agree with hkty and from what I have read and also personal experience, the gentlelase triggered growth is most common on women’s faces. Thank you for posting your experience, I learned a lot and am going for some elec. consultations this week.

i havent really heard stories like this from personal life. but my electrologist told me that she has clients who are getting electrolysis treatment because they had laser before and it made things worse for them. but this apparenly only happens on the face. she also told me that laser works great on the body, but the face is an extremely risky area that can increase the amount of hair rather than reduce it.

One of the main reasons (or actually is the MAIN) reason i did not do laser on my face is precisly the problem this post addresses. Even though everyone else around me was yelling at me to just get laser done cause its quicker with less frequent appointments.

thank god for this forum. the info is amazing.

-rachel

I am pessimistic about laser - Only time will tell. However, I am not overly concerned if I do get more growth in the end - it is only hair and if worse comes to worse I can wax or get electro. The removal I am having is on my chest and abs, and I’m having electro on my back. I am using a Coolglide Xeo.

Htky, how dark is your skin? Since you are only 23, it is possible that the regrowth you experienced is actually new growth that would have occurred anyway even if you did not get laser. But it is certainly possible that the regrowth was triggered by the laser. Since a Gentlelase is involved it makes me wonder.

RJC2001

It would be nice for some unbiased researchers to take this one on and do some studies to validate what is or is not occurring here. These kinds of client experiences always pop up and need some explanation. Just for the fun of it, I think I’ll e-mail some researchers listed in recently published medical articles about laser hair removal and ask what they know about this rare side effect. If I have any responses, I’ll post back.

I’m a type II-III.

It’s really strange that the only areas of my body that got more hair are the two areas where I was treated with a laser.

It is rather odd, how this happens to some people. I myself, would not touch anything with a laser that I wouldnt want to go the other way. Why I chose electro straight off the bat for the back.

I may have noticed a little more growth where I did’nt have any before laser - However while I may think this I am not sure if it is the case or it is just the fact that now I am taking more notice. However, I have had a reduction.

I wish you will on your electro journey!

I tried laser (Epilight) on upper back areas when I was ~ 28y.o. and the results were disappointing. I had regrowth and more hair than when I started. The new hairs were coarse and blotchy and it seems obvious to me that the laser caused this. My theory is that if you are young, some follicles have the propensity to eventually grow hair and the laser kickstarts the process. What a waste of money! I’m on electrolysis now, both blend and thermolysis and I still can’t decide which is better. I’m leaning toward thermolysis now.

The appointment went smoothly. Still doing flash. My neck still looks a little bumpy this morning, but other than that, no ill effects. I am cleared, except we are not sure about my hairline, so we are being conservative as I can always go up higher later. I also had 4-5 dark hairs on my earlobes zapped–there are finer, lighter ones, but the dark ones really get on my nerves. Next appointment is 11/10.

Update:


Date       Hours    Area     
10/14/05   1.5      Nape
10/21/05   1.0      Nape
11/01/05   1.3      Nape
11/10/05    ?

I’m glad you got clearance in 3 sessions! Thanks for the updates and continued good luck.

My electrologist switched to blend today. I found it to be quite painful compared to flash. She used the same non-gold probe she has always used, but after a couple of seconds on blend, it started to get rather painful. She said the hairs came out easier using blend. Eventually, she reduced the treatment time from six seconds to about two, which helped a great deal.

She also did something she called “rolling the skin” using a metal wand (phoresis) and some sort of liquid solution. Supposedly, this seals the pores and helps reduce redness and irritation. My skin is less red and irritated this time, but because two variables were changed (the rolling and the method of electrolysis), I can’t say for sure whether either one (or my skin’s getting used to the treatment) was the cause of this improvement. The treatment time is going down. As it goes down, I will probably start doing another area, but between Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, there may be some catch-up to do on the neck area, as there may be a larger gap between appointments.

There are a few hairs that are toward the bottom of my neck that I think are obscured by my shirt collar. I will try to point them out next time without being critical. Next appointment is 11/21/2005.

Update:


Date       Hours    Area   Method     
10/14/05   1.5      Nape   Flash
10/21/05   1.0      Nape   Flash
11/01/05   1.3      Nape   Flash
11/10/05   1.0      Nape   Blend
11/21/05    ?

My practitioner used a different machine today. She had been using a Clareblend Ultrablend. This time, she used an Instantron Elite-Spectrum. Blend was still painful at times, but overall felt better than last time using the Ultrablend machine. Very little reaction on my skin, but it took quite a while to get done. Next appointment is 11/29.

 
Date       Hours    Area   Method     
10/14/05   1.5      Nape   Flash
10/21/05   1.0      Nape   Flash
11/01/05   1.3      Nape   Flash
11/10/05   1.0      Nape   Blend
11/21/05   1.5      Nape   Blend
11/29/05    ?
 

At a meeting I attended last year, a physician stated that approximately 1% of laser hair removal clients had increased hair growth.

This year, I attended another meeting where Dermatologist, Dr. Eric Siegal inferred a much higher number by indicating that hair growth can be stimulated if the laser treatments are not aggressive enough.

He explained how settings that are too low can, “tickle” the follicle into producing a hair on certain areas of the face.

I just want to clarify that we are referring to facial hair treatments as this is the only area I have witnessed increased growth and Dr. Siegel was also only referring to areas on the face.

I think it might be intersting to note that recently, I met a very successful laser-hair-removal businessman who has a chain of laser centers. He has had hair removal laser administered to his own body for 5 years now. I asked him if any part of his body is completely hair free as a result. He didn’t answer my question directly so I repeated the question over and over, finally, he said that he still needs maintenance.

I have completely cleared men’s backs with electrolysis in far less time.

Does anyone actually finish laser hair removal where no more hair appears in the treated area?

Once I am convinced that lasers will result in permanent hair removal, I will buy one outright so that I can speed up the process to ending the unhappiness, insecurity, self-consciouness, distress and discomfort and all the problems that result from unwanted hair.

Once I am convinced that lasers will result in permanent hair removal, I will buy one outright so that I can speed up the process to ending the unhappiness, insecurity, self-consciouness, distress and discomfort and all the problems that result from unwanted hair.

The Christiano/Sirna gene therapy may pan out before then!

Nothing interesting to report as of the last appointment, I will update this thing once final exams are over.


Date       Hours    Area   Method     
10/14/05   1.5      Nape   Flash
10/21/05   1.0      Nape   Flash
11/01/05   1.3      Nape   Flash
11/10/05   1.0      Nape   Blend
11/21/05   1.5      Nape   Blend
11/29/05   1.0      Nape   Blend, quite a bit of swelling
12/13/05   1.5      Nape   Blend, less swelling, used lower settings but longer time per hair
01/06/06   1.5      Nape   Blend, not a total clearance
01/13/06   1.3      Nape   Blend, total clearance
01/20/06   1.0      Nape   Blend, total clearance 
01/25/06     ?

I went too long between appointments over Christmas, but I am back on track. My electrologist wants me to stick to weekly appointments for now so we are more likely to get hairs in the growth phase. I will be working out of town over the summer, so the goal is to be as done as possible by then.



Date       Hours    Area   Method     
10/14/05   1.5      Nape   Flash
10/21/05   1.0      Nape   Flash
11/01/05   1.3      Nape   Flash
11/10/05   1.0      Nape   Blend
11/21/05   1.5      Nape   Blend
11/29/05   1.0      Nape   Blend, quite a bit of swelling
12/13/05   1.5      Nape   Blend, less swelling, used lower settings but longer time per hair
01/06/06   1.5      Nape   Blend, not a total clearance
01/13/06   1.3      Nape   Blend, total clearance
01/20/06   1.0      Nape   Blend, total clearance 
01/25/06   1.6      Nape   Blend, total clearance
02/01/06     ?

Why did it take longer only five days later? I got a haircut which greatly assisted in fine-tuning which hairs were to be treated. My skin reacted very well. On one area of my neck, my muscles had a reaction to the current. I never really felt the current or had time to react to it, the current just instantly caused them to spasm. Luckily, I didn’t move much, or else I would have probably gotten poked. Next treatment is in one week.

I haven’t mentioned it before, but the clinic where I am having treatment is Bluegrass Electrolysis in Lexington, KY, and I do recommend them. They also operate a school for training electrologists, and offer a reduced rate if you have a student perform work on you (I have no experience in that regard, but thought I would mention it).

Date Hours Area Method
10/14/05 1.5 Nape Flash
10/21/05 1.0 Nape Flash
11/01/05 1.3 Nape Flash
11/10/05 1.0 Nape Blend
11/21/05 1.5 Nape Blend
11/29/05 1.0 Nape Blend, quite a bit of swelling
12/13/05 1.5 Nape Blend, less swelling, used lower settings but longer time per hair
01/06/06 1.5 Nape Blend, not a total clearance
01/13/06 1.3 Nape Blend, total clearance
01/20/06 1.0 Nape Blend, total clearance
01/25/06 1.6 Nape Blend, total clearance
02/03/06 1.1 Nape Flash, total clearance
02/08/06 ?

I had a date on Wednesday and had to move my appointment, which was originally on Wednesday. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My electrologist used some different flash settings this time. She lowered the number of tenths of seconds that the machine pulses, but used the same technique she used with flash in the past, giving 2-4 pulses per hair. I estimate it would have taken close to two hours had she used blend. There was much less skin reaction this time than the other times we’ve used flash. No neck spasms this week! There was very little discomfort during the treatment. I have another appointment in five days.

I am encouraged by the shorter appointments. I would love to be able to get started on my upper arms, although I know that even if I started now, I wouldn’t be finished before I move home for the summer–I would, however, make at least some headway.

Question: Is the amount of current used for flash cumulative? Just making up even numbers out of my head here, but if one changed the setting from 2/10 second to 1/10 second, would it apply double the amount of current for 1/10 second as compared to 2/10?