E-2000 or Not........Question for Andrea

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

I’m a 25 year old male to female transsexual. I’ve had almost all of my beard removed with electrolysis, but continue to have treatment for stubble. You can’t ever see a shadow, but you can sure feel the hairs. I also need some work on the back of my neck. I live in Dallas, but haven’t ever used E-2000. Should I be, though? I like the electrologist I’ve been using. I don’t have much hair left, and it doesn’t take more than an hour or so to clean all the poky ones from my face each time.

I’ve had great results, but the remaining hairs seem stubborn and I wonder if E-200O couldn’t speed things up a bit. That being said, they are pricey and I don’t need or want anesthetic injections for the face ( I will for South Pole areas, though.) Should I stick with who I have now, or spend the extra cash to go get my remaining work done by E2K?

Any thoughts?

#2

What you may find that E-2000 may provide that your current practitioner might not is a better level of magnification and lighting. IF that is true, you would get hairs that you are not getting now, and they would go easily.

It is at least worth a trial visit, even if you have to pay for 15 mins to an hour.

#3

Electrology 2000 is currently reorganizing and may be under new management in the future. Be sure to call and ask about their plans for the future before making any other commitments.

Quote:
July 5 2006

As it stands so far, Electrology 2000 may be aquired by another doctor, who is also in the “T” community. We are still in the discussion phase since there are many things that are involved and these things take time. One details and transsfer is complete, service will resume as usual, with most of the same staff, same service, as well as a better fullfillment of the gender clinic promised for so long. Exact dates are not yet determined. For this reason, there could be some down time, yet we are not yet sure of that either.

Please feel free to print all that.

The new doctor has a deep interest in serving the T community and regards E2K as an institution in that service. Assuming we can come to terms and work out details, she will be dedicated to quality as I have always been.

Long live the community, and may it grow well,

Bren Piranio
Electrology 2000 inc.

#4

Thanks! That was an old post of mine, and I am actually done now with facial electrolysis (not done at E-2000, but somewhere else in Dallas) but that’s still good info for others.

#5

E2000 is open again and accepting new clients.
Same staff and Dr. To make an appt. call their office or look at Electrology 2000 web site.

#6

From a reader today:

Hello, I just thought I would ask if you might put a blurb on your website about E2000 still being open. There were some rumors ciculating on the internet that it was going to shut down. I just returned from my second appointment with them this past Monday. Brin is no longer the owner as the technicians purchased the business from her. The only change is the name has changed from Electrology2000 to Electrology3000. Otherwise everything else remains the same. Additionally, the office ran as smoothly this last time as it did during my first appointment when Brin was still the owner.

#7

Do these guys inject you on other parts of the body with lidocaine if you need treatment thats not on the face? If so, how dangerous is too much lidocaine via injections (like say throughout the abs, lower back etc…). Thanks.

#8

They will inject you where ever you are getting treated.

Other than allergic reactions, the most common side effect of this stuff is digestive complications. Temporary constapation, kidney and liver problems and such.

#9

Too much lidocaine can be harmful or fatal. There’s definitely a limit to how much can be injected. I have only used injections once, on my upper lip. The rest of the time I made do with Elamax, or nothing. Unless you’re extremely sensitive to pain, I think injections are overkill. Modern electrology machines (my guy uses the Apilus) cause less sensation than older models seemed to.

#10

Most recent intel that I have is that they are still using Special Order Instantrons based on the Elite Spectrum machine. I have had no mention of any intent on their part to upgrade to Apilus or adding a VMC.

I was not going to mention the fatality issue, as we all have heard about the deaths from over use of even topicals.

#11

Besides using a newer generation machine, operator proficency makes a big difference as well. I had a very good example of this when a friend of mine from the Sacramento Area came by my office a couple of weeks ago with her epilator. She wanted to give me a good demonstration of blend, but also wanted to have me work on her with my Apilus Senior II.

It was an interesting and fun experience as she worked on my leg (on the shin area, which is usually fairly uncomfortable) using an older ClairBlend machine and it really wasn’t that uncomfortable at all. She was also the fastest blend operator I have ever seen (Sorry James, she was faster than 6 to 8 hairs per minute. More like 10 to 12. Very good and quick at making insertions and she uses a very good quality form of magnification. I know that the light source was good as she used mine! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). However, it still had a somewhat higher discomfort level. (I wouldn’t call it pain - more like the sensation of a hair dryer on the high setting)

As far as E-2000 goes, from what I’ve seen of them, one might be better off financially to find a good single operator and stick with them. Regardless of the methods they use, the complete time for a total hair free state will still be basically the same. I have the concern that their clients are paying too much for the appearance of total instant gratification. The process, regardless of the method of application, is ultimately under the control of the length of the hair growth cycle for the areas being treated.

Also, if they are using that much topical, it makes me wonder how good of insertions their operators are making and/or if they are using too much power in many instances. This does sort of negate the comfort level of treatment which, IMO, is a good indication of how much energy I can safely use on most clients without injury to their skin. The really sensitive client isn’t that common in my experience. For most of the people I’ve worked on, I use single pulse microflash and they do just fine with that. The only time that I go to multiple pulses is when I have a sensitive client and need to deliver the energy at lower level to keep them comfortable.

Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#12

Understand, E2000/E3000 utilizes injections. They also have a topical that they employ if the client gets an script for it, but the reason people travel so far is for injections and multiple practitioners at the same time.

If 100 hairs per hour is the norm for electrolysis in your area, traveling to someplace faster looks really good. If “I don’t treat men!<CLICK>” is the normal response to a male voice on the phone, or the locals are not trans friendly, travel looks even better!

As for the “blend” thing, there are few places I am orthodox on, and this is one of them. The rational for saying the statistical limit of blend is 8 hairs per minute is simple mathematics based on an orthodoxical starting point. (If one doesn’t share that orthodoxy, one may say that “Blend” has the same statistical limit as thermolysis)That point is this, if your treatment time is less than 7 seconds inside the follicle, you are in fact practicing thermolysis with the galvanic current only serving to keep the needle clean. Sixty seconds divided by seven seconds treatment time equals 8.57 insertions per minute with no time alloted for removal of hairs.

#13

if your treatment time is less than 7 seconds inside the follicle, you are in fact practicing thermolysis with the galvanic current only serving to keep the needle clean.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I used to do some hairs in less than 7 seconds with straight galvanic (fine to medium). Is there some new info on blend regarding the 7 second limit?

#14

I am sure none of those were on a 25+ year old male beard.

According to Bono, any hair of any substance would require 7 seconds of blend. The thermolysis is there to speed the the chemical reaction. It is not there to do the treatment.

A hair that would release in less than seven seconds with galvanic alone would either be a low lye count hair, or the galvanic energy is up way high, leaving the possibility of excess treatment as the lye reaction continues even after the hair releases.

If you would like more on this topic, I could see if Mike wants to give a brief note on it, of course, I can’t promise he will.

#15

Hi James,

One of the things that I see a little need for clarification on is your 7 second minimum. One of the things that I was taught in school was that the minimum time for effective blend on average hair was 5 seconds. I imagine that this would include most of the hormonally stimulated hair on the female anatomy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

However, I can see where the thick, deep hairs in the male beard would require a longer minimum time for treatment using blend. I know for a fact that using blend on a few of the long-term eyebrow pluckers that I’ve worked on over the last few months have taken over well over 10 seconds, at fairly high galvanic levels, to gain release. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

One of the things that I can also state here, with regards to my leg hairs, is that they are quite a bit finer than a lot of the hairs on other areas that I am contending with. If figures! The ones that I am content to shave are a lot thinner than the ones I don’t want to shave…sigh…

Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

#16

Oh I see, yes I do have to take that long for beard hairs. Thanks.

#17

Needless to say, 7 seconds is an AVERAGE. We are talking about the amount of time a certain chemical reaction takes place, followed by the time needed for enough of that product to be produced to cause a particular result.

How long does it take for a person to climb ten steps? It depends; how tall is the person, how old is the person, is the person fit or out of shape? Does the person have to step on all ten steps? There comes a point where a certain person with a certain leg length and leg strength can bound the stairs in two steps, but then one is no longer stair stepping, that person is jumping. On the other hand, if the stairs are smaller and lower, there comes a point where one can step over the whole stair case without setting foot on the thing at all.

The hairs we remove on many women are frequently removed only because of the color they present, as opposed to being to long or too thick to be unnoticeable. When it comes to hairs that are too long and too thick one gets to the point where it is unlikely that something under 7 seconds would be good treatment, and if it were, one could lower the current for client comfort sake and get permanent hair removal with a sleeping client.

#18

Thanks James.

One of the things that I am very careful to do is stay well within the client’s tolerance level. Pain is the body’s notification that something is not right. I have found that if one stays within the tolerance level, skin damage is a lot less likely to occur. That is also one of the reasons that I am not real hot on locals prior to electrology. I have seen too many cases where the use of locals has allowed severe skin damage to occur. Brrrr!

When locals are used, it is entirely the responsibility of the practitioner to be certain that over-treatment does not occur. With the nerve endings deadened, the client certainly can not tell that injury is happening.

BTW…It does not matter which modality is being used for damage to occur. Galvanic can do as much damage as microflash if too much time/current is used.

Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

#19

I have seen too many cases where the use of locals has allowed severe skin damage to occur. Brrrr!

When locals are used, it is entirely the responsibility of the practitioner to be certain that over-treatment does not occur. With the nerve endings deadened, the client certainly can not tell that injury is happening.

BTW…It does not matter which modality is being used for damage to occur. Galvanic can do as much damage as microflash if too much time/current is used.

Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

You are correct. Since all 3 methods are effective, all 3 can be very destructive, and can cause unfavorable results. The only thing I have maintained is the learning curve for each method is a little different, so less professional mistakes with one method over others is bound to happen.

#20

Well put James!

One of the things that I found out in school was that the usual method of getting around bad insertions is to increase the power to the point where the hairs come out anyway. I thought I would get away from this as I moved out into the real world. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

No such luck! The first 2 electrologists I tried when I came home from school were just as bad as some of the students that worked on me, they just cost a lot more. Luckily, I knew how to take care of myself, post treatment and haven’t had any noticable scarring from these people. I also haven’t gone back for more! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

The electrologist that I use now is not the best that I’ve ever used, but at least she doesn’t overtreat and I am experiencing a signigficant degree of permanent removal. (4 months in and very little regrowth in treated areas with a very noticable reduction in total hair on the upper lip!)

This is why it is so important to consult and get sample treatments with several electrologists and go with the one who gives the best treatment within your range of possibilities…

Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />