Hi there!
Is it ok to wax the décolletage and breasts area until i decide to go with laser treatments? I’m on birthcontrol pills to balance out the little hormone problem that i have, but u have loads of hair on my body that i need to maintain to look somewhat presentable lol! so, is it fine to wax these sensitive areas…just until i know that i’m going to go for the laser?
If you are planning on undergoing laser hair removal, you should limit plucking, waxing/sugaring for six weeks before treatment. That’s because the laser targets the hair roots, which are temporarily removed by waxing or plucking. You should also avoid sun exposure for six weeks before and after treatment.
Just a quick note. Laser doesn’t work that well on finer hair.
Moreover laser on hormono-dependent zone such as breast could stimulate vellus hair in terminal hair.
Electrolysis is the only permanent hair removal method and works perfectly on fine and fair hair.
Ok, first you DON’T need to avoid sun exposure six weeks before and after. That’s just false information, ask your Dermatologist, as I did and three days is more than enough.
Second it’s true that laser works best on thick dark hair in their growth phase on white skin. BUT fine hair can also be treated with good results. Here I am speaking of over 2 years self experience of a dozend laser sessions, home and professional.
Third, where does the information come from that laser stimulates any type of hair?
To summarize my view, I see so much ignorance against laser treatment from local electrologists and very sad from many big names on this board. Ok, it’s true that electrolysis is the most effective and best method for hair removal, but laser technique has his rights to stay as an option.
It depends on the type of laser. Doing laser session on a tanned skin Such as Alexandrite for exemple can provoque a skin burn. Thus it depends on what do you mean about “sun exposure”. Walking in the street when it is sunshine is ok, but doing sun exposure with tan effect is an other thing. Moreover the melanogenesis of each person can be very different from each other. Some people get tan and produce more melanin with little sun exposure, some don’t. This is why some laser hair removal practicionner prefer advise to avoid sun exposure more than a week before treatment. (I agree 6 weeks sound a lot).
My French dermatologist who uses a Alexandrite laser recommands to avoid sun (at least wear skin protection cream) more than 3 days before the session. Moreover if the patient is tanned, she refuses to treat him/her.
However with Diode Laser, you could work with less precaution.
“Good results” on fine and fair hair ? On hormonal-dependant area ? That is interesting. I am wondering if you could share photos of your work please. (Before and after photos)
Have you ever heard about paradoxical laser hair growth ? Ever?
This is a chance a laser specialist like you could bring her point of view about laser technique and enlighten us with your knowledge. Do not afraid to answer to “big names” of this board about laser if you are not agree. This is the point of a forum board.
Hello Adrien,
can just speak for my skin type and that dermatologist even in summer just advised me to avoid 3 day sun exposure. And the cases you described are right.
I have heard about paradoxical laser hair growth on this forum. Personally I see no scientific background on that topic and believe that people are more hairy than they think, more of a psychological problem. Don’t like to deny that it’s possible for paradoxical laser hair growth but that must be just a really rare case.
Big names like Bono or Josefina reject people who had laser treatment and I got rejected too, when I needed one Electrologist most. So my anger is personally, but despite that they lack of education on that topic and ignorance are real.
Actually don’t like to share any pictures of my results, but you are young and more open and I see benefits in showing you what can be archived through laser hair removal, write me a pm.
I currently have two female medical doctors of Indian descent that I’m working on, both of whom experienced the paradoxical laser growth. They aren’t my only ones, but they are both Fitzpatrick type 4 skin, which is where I seem to see it the most often. It’s a very real problem, not merely a psychological one… particularly in the case of the one that mostly had some chin and neck hair, but as long as they were doing it, she asked them to do her cheeks as well. She went from a pretty simple case to an almost complete beard.
Big names like Bono or Josefina reject people who had laser treatment and I got rejected too, when I needed one Electrologist most. So my anger is personally, but despite that they lack of education on that topic and ignorance are real.
It’s not that THEY lack education, it’s that people that have had laser done don’t want to admit that it was the laser that is the problem. We didn’t get to see people before they had the work done and absolutely NOBODY can predict how much hair is going to grow in after you’ve had laser done. I have clients that thought laser was a miracle cure and 5 years later, their hair is back. I have a client who spent a year doing laser on his back and, 6 weeks after his 12th and final session, he had an entire back full of hair again.
Electrolysis is permanent removal. It’s the one thing that is proven to kill every single hair anywhere… yet, we have to deal with clients that had laser work done that insist their continuing hair problems are OUR fault. Some go as far as maligning the reputation of their electrologist.
While I’m not going to speak for Michael or Josefa, I know that, I hold myself to a pretty high standard and I get frustrated when a client isn’t progressing the way I want them to, even if I’m just simply not killing as many hairs as I’d like to because someone wants to take a 5 minute break every 10 minutes since they need to fidget. People that have had previous laser work done are likely to take longer to finish with electrolysis than if they had skipped the laser entirely. Yeah, you read that right… I have clients that continue to get new laser regrowth 5 years after laser and 2 years after starting electrolysis… and it frustrates us just as much as it frustrates our clients, even doubly so, knowing that there’s a high likelihood of that client is going to go out there and tell people just how awful we are and how “electrolysis doesn’t work.” Some people are at a point in their careers where, maybe, just maybe, they don’t want to deal with that.
As a practitioner, the single most difficult part of my job is managing the emotions and expectations of my clients. A lot of the laser places do an absolute horrible job of telling their prospective clients the truth, carefully hiding behind weasel words like “permanent reduction” that mean nothing while intentionally letting people think they mean permanent, actual permanent, complete removal. Most people don’t want to admit they were conned and of the ones that can, they’re immediately distrustful of us too, given they’ve already been lied to.
Laser is fine for what it is, an incomplete reduction that may not be totally permanent. If you’re doing something like wanting to thin down your leg hair, awesome, but if you want something completely perfect, it’s not going to live up to the hype. I personally take people that have had or are having laser work done (for example, the back guy was coming to me to get the white hair removed since the laser wasn’t going to touch that at all)… but I work REALLY hard at managing their expectations. Often, I work too hard in that realm and I can see why others don’t want to do it, since there’s more than enough work out there on cases that may be way more severe, but far less difficult.
It’s not the fault of the electrologists - it’s the fault of the marketing behind laser, the practitioners that oversell what it really does (and way too many chain laser places care only about selling you a contract, not whether or not it will even work for you) and, frankly, the people that bought into the hype, likely out of desperation.
Hi
It is not as rare as you think. I personnally know many people who received a laser treatment on hormonal-dependant areas such as woman face, man’s back… Not only we can not see any reduction, but also vellus hair become terminal hair after the laser treatment. We can find on the internet some scientific litterature about paradoxical laser induced hair growth. This is pretty well knowned in France.
Can you confirm me, you get rejected by Josefa only because you did laser ?
I can not speak for Mickael Bono, but I can do it for Josefa. If she rejected, as you say, all people who previously did laser treatment, she will not have any clients from foreign countries (and this represents the big majority of her clientele), moreover she will not work on people of this forum board, because 99% of them tried laser in the past. (including me)
Josefa works on people who get laser if you accepts to follow the protocole and let your hair grow as it needs, before the electrolysis session, I saw it with my very own eyes.
Please do not defame Josefa. Never ever she was against laser. She never wrote or say that laser is not effective. Some people get results, that is a fact.
She is only against crooks and thiefes when people paid more than 10.000$ in laser treatment and ALL hair come back. She is only against liar crooks who promise magic results and none is visible, she is against this type of “practitioner” as much as she is against electrologists who tweeze hair.
Funny how statements get amplified and misunderstood.
I will work on former “lasered” people … but want them to wait a year or so, so that I can get on track with my own style of electrolysis.
I don’t do “hunt-and-peck” … I do “CLEAR the whole area off.” Don’t like to wait for the hairs to return. And, with local anesthetic this is not possible and works against me.
Gosh, people always seem to get angry at the slightest thing these days. Nicht war?
Ok, not sure where this dicussion is going but anyways…
to add on to my post,
So yeah, i’ve had electrolysis done on pretty much all of my face and neck, of which MOST of it has actually thinned out. BUT i cannot say they are gone permanently as of yet… even though i have been getting it done frequently during 3 years and then going for touch ups every now and then since 2 years. HOWEVER my chin hair still grows back as thick as before, slower yes, but not thinner!? should it not be gone by now?
So… i got a a gynecologist to check me and she said it looks completely alright, so no PCOS thankfully! but i did have a bit of hormone high/low. So now i’ve got birthcontrol pills to take starting this month. Hopefully it will at least reduce the time of the growth. Right now, i wax my legs one day and 3 days after its back … which is PAINFUL to watch.
BUT my biggest concern at this point is the 2-3inches long hairs that i have around nipples and between my breasts, around the belly area and since last year i am noticing it below collarbone!!!. wth am i suppose to do with these?? Can no longer wear a normal neckline dress/shirt! im literally going crazy … what treatment should i take for these sensitive areas?
I am fair/medium skintone and very dark hair so laser should work or is electrolysis the way to go? gonna take yeeeaaarrs for it to clear up then… 
In my attempt to contribute to this forum, it seems that I misspoke and would like to rectify the matter, by offering an apology to all. It is not necessary to avoid the sun 6wks, pre/pos laser, but I also have seen individuals suffer laser burns, that contributed to sun exposure, so I error on the side of caution. To be fair, that was some time ago and technology has advanced and newer generation lasers have been designed to safely bypass the skin and find the melanin pigments to safely remove hair.
With that said, it’s still not encouraged to soak up the rays, prior to a laser session, but if, this is the case the laser’s settings cannot be as aggressive as they would be, if you didn’t tan. Which essentially means, you will need more sessions. More, sessions also does not mean better results.
Please, understand that laser hair removal is subjective and results vary greatly from person to person. I,nor anyone else can state, laser is the answer to your problem. What I can say with certainty, is treatment with a skilled electrolysis is the only means of permanently removing all offending hairs, and no, it does not take years. My suggestion to you is, to speak to your electrolysis and inform her of your slight hormonal imbalance and ask her specifically, how long will it take to clear, and also have her explain to you the difference between new growth and regrowth.
Very nice and thoughtful post GiGi.
Truth is that often electrolysis can “take years!” I’m just finishing up a M/F Trans-girl who had a very dense beard. We are finishing up at about 75 - 78 hours, but this has taken almost 2.5 years, “elapsed time!” An hour per week … here and there … but, we are now down to 15-minute appointments and I’m have trouble finding anything.
Amazingly, this girl now has extremely soft fine blond vellus hairs on her face (in just the right places) that she loves. This totally looks feminine and gives her such a perfect feminine appearance. And, this is one of the most positive affects of electrolysis … it looks so totally natural now: not shaved … just real.
Women’s faces can also take years to complete … appointments here and there when they have time. Surprisingly, male body hair (and women’s body hair too) is much faster in elapsed time. Three or four clearances and that’s it … usually at 3 - 4 month intervals. Still the whole damned thing takes about 1.5 years.
Electrolysis really does seem to take too long, doesn’t it? Gosh, how we all wish it could all go FASTER … but, that’s sort of the reality: “a marathon; not a sprint?” I think focusing on the TTT (total treatment time) and the COST is more important. But overall it’s too slow and too expensive.
I was not rejected by Josefina, but I read her older posts and she doesn’t seem to like laser.
My anger goes especially to one local electrologist who not only rejected me the first time, even ignored my emails and calls the second time after waiting six months.
Their is nothing false to wait when the clients had laser treatments, but it’s just ridiculous to get mad and offended when such client ask for help.
@EmancipatedElect
Your statements are exactly the same from our local electrologist who have no long term experience and deep education on that topic. Of course they are negative effects and risks, but it’s important to get a neutral professional view on that whole complexity.
That’s was surprisingly honest. Awesome Bono, cheers.
I am sorry you had a bad experience with your local electrologist. I hope you will find a professional who could help you.
Oh … I forgot to say: electrolysis hurts too much too!
Ja … ich bin ehrlich (mostly)!
If this phrase in red summarizes all my posts in Hairtell, I should have spent my time learning crochet. At least now I would have a beautiful quilt to decorate my bed.
For someone who gives lessons of neutrality, you seem quite inclined to give personal opinions based on impressions.
In the future, I would appreciate if you avoid mentioning my name.
Dear Cihan Yaman,
I’m looking at your photo and I don’t understand what I’m supposed to be looking at.
Now, don’t be naughty to Jossie because I’m going to have to come over to Germany and spank you! ha ha ha
In my entire 40-year career in this sometimes (often) nutty profession … Josefa is the most important person I’ve met as far as influence, new ideas, honesty, and inspiration. Probably only Art Hinkel influenced me more … but, it’s a close one.
ha ha … excellent
Remember that “us zappers” mostly encounter people who had had failed laser, and that’s why they are coming to us. So, we get a somewhat “skewed” look at this.
Overall clients have to be diligent in finding the right solution to their problem and not JUMP into any procedure and spend a fortune … only to discover it didn’t work. And, that includes both electrolysis and laser.
Picking one ‘technology’ alone guarantees nothing!
If, for example, clients think that FDA statements guarantee success … well they are wrong. I have a lot to say on this subject … a video will do a better job of it.
You’re right about one thing, Cihan, laser is not an enemy but an option with limitations. The enemy here is human stupidity, a fairly common feature, and certainly not only applies to us, electrologists.
Here are some “perles” of “precision and objectivity” expressed by a few “vice versa”:
“In those patients with blond or gray hair electrolysis may be helpful. Electrolysis isnt permanent and will require maintenance tx.” -John E. Gross, MD
Los Angeles Plastic Surgeon
“Laser work best on light skin and dark hair, Electrolysis can be used on anyone despite their skin or hair color. Currently, there are some lasers successfully remove blonde hairs, but it has not yet perfected them. The average clearance rate of the hairs was 74% by Laser and 35% by Electrolysis six months after the initial treatment.” -Rose Lee- HairLaserremoval.co.uk
“Electrolysis is tedious, time-consuming and uncomfortable. The GentleLASE System safely removes unwanted body hair without damaging the delicate pores and structures of the skin. Facial and bikini areas are usually completed in less than ten minutes; legs, backs and larger areas can take longer.” -Clinical Skin Center-
“Q: Could I have my eyebrows reshaped with electrolysis? Answer: This procedure can be done, but it is inadvisable because the muscle structure under the eyebrows is extremely delicate. In addition, the bone is close to the skin, making it difficult to insert a needle” -Encyclopedia of Health-