I have type 3 skin and very dark coarse hair. Could I see decent results at these settings? It seems a lot of people talk about using 16J - 18J, but my skin can’t handle settings that high. So the tech wants to reduce to a lower setting. Could I just be throwing away money? The tech says that if the skin turns red after each zap then she knows it is working. A spanking will make my skin turn red, but it’s not going to remove hair! 
Lagirl will know better but 10-12 I think is too low. 16J is the recommended for type 3 by Candella but people here usually recommend higher. When you say your skin can’t handle higher, in what sense do you mean? Like have you done a test area and just find it hurts too much, or does it actually burn the area?
Yes, those settings are too low. If you’re a true type 3, you should be able to handle 16j/18mm without burning. If you can’t, you’re not a type 4 and simply need to use GentleYAG instead. On coarse dense hair, it will work well regardless at good settings.
Yes, redness alone is not enough to tell anything. The hair may even shed, which is a better way to judge, but it will not be killed permanently. Don’t waste your money at those settings.
Here is what is confusing me now. In one consult I had 3 test patches done. Neck line at 14J, the left thigh at 14J and the right thigh at 16J, all with a 18mm spot size. The neck looks fine. Both legs had bruises that are starting to fade now 2 weeks later. Both legs now look like they have been slightly burned as there is pink that has developed in the test patch area now. The only differences that I can recall between the neck and thigh area is that the neck was shaved fresh that morning. The thighs had about 4 days of hair growth on them which was not shaved off first. I applied aloe to the neck 2-3 times per day for the first 3 days, but did not do it to the thighs. And lastly the neck has obviously seen a lot more sun in it’s time so the skin is darker. My thighs have seen almost zero sunshine ever. It seems to me that no matter what method of hair removal I have explored thus far my skin does not like it and I have extensive healing times. I also have some southern Italian blood in me. Could that have any impact to my skin type being misleading? I’ve got lots of red tones in my skin and respond well to the sun. I can get really tan if I want. I’m of course going to discuss all this with the pracitioner, but I wanted to see what some of the experts on here think.
Wait when you said your thighs had 4 days worth of growth, did the tech shave that off before treating the area, or did they treat it with actual stubble? If they did then that’s why it would burn like that, you need the hair to be as short as possible. It doesn’t matter whether you shave before going or they shave it there it wouldn’t change the outcome. The laser works by targeting the melanin in the hair which is why you need it to be as short as possible, so that it avoids the skin and hits only the melanin in the root of the hair. If there’s actual hair growing outside the skin, then it’s basically like setting fire to it which would absolutely burn your skin.
Just as an example, I did a test patch on my neck before, I had shaved in the morning just as normal, not spending much time on it. I’m average I’d say, so when I shave you still see a bit of stubble, unlike when you shave say underarms or forearms where the hair isn’t so dense and coarse and you could go a day wihtout even seeing any hair in the area. After my treatment, for a week it was a bit red/brown around each of the hairs that were treated which I’m guessing was because I didn’t shave crazy close since I didn’t want to irritate the area. When I went to do my entire face, I shaved as close as possible, first against the grain then with it, so I basically looked completely smooth when I went. (I don’t shave like this normally since any guy can tell you it’s irritating and more trouble than it’s worth). After my treatment my skin was perfectly normal, no reaction aside from the normal ones, and no darkening around each hair.
If your tech actually treated you with 4 days worth of growth then you may want to switch clinics because that’s not right. Even when I go to mine I’ll shave my areas as close as possible, and she still spends about 10 minutes touching up and making sure there’s not a single hair that was missed.
The area should have been shaved. If there was more than just a little stubble, the burn could have been from laser burning those hairs and your skin nearby got affected too.
Also, with your skin type, pigmentation and sensitivity can vary between areas. If you want to be completely safe, go with a Yag. It sounds like it’s a bit of a risk to use GentleLASE on you.
The tech didn’t shave the 4 days worth of stubble at all, which makes me wonder if I should bother with them now. So, that makes sense now why I see a difference between the neck and legs. I also forgot to mention that I’m 25% Mediterranean decent. My maternal Grandma came from Naples Italy. The rest of me is German with a drop of Polish. So now I need to decide to keep my Wednesday full face treatment with the GentleLase or look to get a test patch with the Yag.
You need to be fully shaved before treating the area, if the tech didn’t shave you then it sounds like they have no idea what they’re doing. GentleLASE is one of the best lasers there is though, but like mentioned 10-12 is too low so only do GentleLASE if you can handle at least 14 otherwise like lagirl suggested you may need to go with a Yag.
The power (joules) is too low.
It drives me nuts to see how many people offer help about something they know nothing (or next to nothing). They may think they know all about it but many operators are not licensed as their state has no laws about using lasers, and no schools to teach it, therefore, many patients are not being treated properly and patients repeat what they have seen but do not know their info is useless. (I am too upset to try to put this is proper grammatical order but you probably understand what I mean). If not …I’m sorry.
Laser treatment is minor SURGERY, as is electrolysis. FDA definition of surgery is… any planned procedure that alters the structure and/or function of the area being treated. In order to destroy the ability of a follicle to grow more hair, the parts of the follicle that are responsible for regenerating hair MUST be destroyed and/or permanently altered so they can not continue their original function.
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Yea, I just checked and it looks like there are no license requirements for operators here in New York. Pretty scary!
Actually, New York has many places offering classes in L.A.S.E.R. treatment protocol. What the state doesn’t have is a state mandated license for the field. In many places where things go from unlicensed, to licensed, the only effect is to give some few a monopoly, and leave the great many without service, or stuck with no competition and a short supply of service.
Existence of a licensing program does not create a state where better education or service provision occurs. We have driver’s licenses, and yet, bad drivers still exist. The only real change is we are all paying extortions in hopes of limiting the amount of times we are pulled over and given special attention from the palace guards.
Yeah I agree, I think when its unlicensed as well you get probably better rates, since it allows people to open up their own clinics versus only plastic surgeons and so on. It’s generally these smaller places where people actually take the time to learn about proper treatment and also give you the best prices.
To Kate and Berty
Oh dear.
I have watched this thread and feel that I would really like to put my bit in.
I have had a few - not many, but a few - clients who have responded very well on lower joules.
Client 1
Skin type 3
Area - bikini
Test spot 15/5/08 10j 18mm
Tx 1 22/5/08 10j 18mm
Tx 2 1/9/08 10j 18mm
Tx 3 3/12/08 10j 18mm
No more treatments on this lady on her bikini. I am still seeing her as I am treating her lower legs and the hair that remains on her bikini is fine and sparce
Client 2
Skin type - 3
Area - lower leg and bikini
Test spot 16/2/09 12j 18mm
1st tx 20/2/09 12j 18mm
2nd tx 28/5/09 12j 18mm
29/10/09 tx to bikini ONLY as not enough regrowth on lower leg to justify treatment
If I had the time I could probably find anothr 10 - 20 like this. I admit that they are not the norm (just as well or I would be out of business!) but it does prove to me that a lower setting CAN work.
The Gentlelase is a superb machine. I bought my first of 5, 13 years ago when I started doing Laser Hair Removal and if I was buying another tomorrow, it would still be a Gentlelase. Of course I do try and get the settings as high as is possible - I am not one of those practitioners who keep it low in order to a) keep the clients coming back or b) to avoid any kind of litigation - but sometimes it cant be done.
However, I think it is important to have faith in your provider. If I had a client who insisted that we went to a higher level I would do test areas to either prove to them thats its not a good idea or to prove to me that it is!
Hey guidance, that’s really good feedback. I think the important part is what you said, how you at least do a test patch. It sounds like they don’t want to do that, plus the fact that they did it with 4 days worth of growth is crazy to me!
Guidance,
How do lower fluences figure into induced laser hair stimulation from your experience?
Thanks,
Dee
Hi Dee
I have found that ANY fluences, high or low can induce stimulation. I have had type 4 with no stimulation and type 1 with it. I have seen it only on the recognised areas, female faces and male shoulders and backs. It makes me very, very wary of treating these areas at all.
I just wish there was a rhyme or reason to it. It seems that there is a predisposition with the darker female faces and for this reason I no longer routinely treat them. The exceptions would be in PCOS where the situation is unbearable for the client.
I have just re read your question. HOW? I have no idea. I am currently treating some hyperstimulated clients ( for nothing I hasten to add) and am using the double pass/ice packs +++ but have yet not seen any improvement. Very distressing. With new clients who fit in to the exceptions above, I start with double pass/icepacks ++ and to date have not seen any stimulated growth. Have I just been lucky?
Edok - can you ask them to at least do a further test patch and if they wont, ask them for the rationale behind that decision?
Hey guidance, I was just replying to the original poster, I have no issues with getting test patches
Sorry Edok - I mis-read your post
Okay, thanks.
Can you explain double-pass +++++ ice packs?