Blend versus High HF.

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

In recent days we have been able to read things like this:

"[i][color:#990000]Thermolysis is not the current that will permanently destroy all the cells in the follicle for deep course hair. What most likely happened with your case, is that the electrologist had the Thermolysis setting too high and was in the follicle way too long. Perhaps even was working with a old machine that runs much hotter than newer thermolysis epilators. The pits you were left with will slowly heal a bit and level out some, but most likely you will have some sort of deviation on the skin. I have seen many clients that have previously been treated with Thermolysis with the orange peel skin depressions with thick hair still growing out of the pits/ depressions!!!
I never use straight Thermolysis (AC) on deep course hair. Thermolysis works best on fine vellus hair. Blend uses Galvanic current and low level thermolysis. You would benefit from Blend or just straight Galvanic.

I would recommend you look for a Blend or Galvanic operator for your unwanted PCOS hair.

Electrolysis is a procedure. It is up to you to inform yourself. You must do the home work on learning the differences between the modalities since you don’t want further damage and want the hair off.[/color][/i]"

"[color:#990000]High Frequency can cause over treatment due to the quick rise of the heating pattern of the current. A skilled HF (AC) electrologist with good insertions and vision will not have an issue. People with darker skin have options and I personally would recommend short treatments on the side of the lip to thin out the area slowly and to be careful to not have the AC setting too high. I am a manual blend operator, and would set machine at .3-30 and move up to .4-30 , or .3-35 and see how the skin reacts.[/color]"

Now let me show you an interesting case:
Arms woman, 27 years old, Asian skin.

Before. April 2014:

SAM_3579.JPG769×577

Right forearm: first clearance made by a former electrologist in Germany with Blend.

April 2014: Aspect of the right arm, several months after the first clearance by a previous electrologist with blend:

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Left forearm: first clearance made by me, with Flash (high “thermolysis”):

Appearance of both arms, left arm, right after the first clearance

[img:center]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wXu4faAWRFQ/VMLLvMSpJ7I/AAAAAAAAGF8/XX5GIYMOHEg/w769-h577-no/SAM_3636.JPG[/img]

January 2015. Before third clearance, 7 months after the second clearing:

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I could draw a conclusion after seeing this: Blend can cause overtreatment due to galvanic, since this is the current that was not used in the left arm!

I could, but I will not, because that would completely untrue and unfair. We’ve all had the opportunity to see the magnificent work of an electrologist who often post here, and who uses Blend with high HF and some galvanic.

#2

Several months? My god! That’s indeed simply bad work.
It might happen with every modality if that is used wrong. I do not even want to know who of my colleagues caused that (but luckily no one in my vicinity - i know how they are working).

Even in my early days my results were better. With blend, first slow blend, later fast blend. Now with some sort of flash thermolysis, dependent on the machine i am using and, of course, the skin. The healing was always comparable.

Thanks Josefa. That’s why i responded, and that demonstrates why i felt insulted (and that’s what i had in mind when i spoke of two different groups of colleagues).

#3

Yes Beate, I was the first to react after reading the words in red from this electrologist who received a harsh, nasty, overwhelming , and not very welcoming response.

Well, when a well-meaning colleague makes statements like this, others felt seriously harmed.

I want to be fair to the person who made this arm, while the body work was very bad (overtreatment in legs is much more serious), she did an excellent job on her face.

#4

It is, if you think about it, sort of strange. We ALL use two currents (DC and HF) in a very wide variety of ways (that’s the simple way I look at this “VERSUS” thing).

Even between different blend users and between various “flash” users there is ongoing strong disagreement about this-or-that. What matters is the final product.

I’m reminded of the many religious wars that took place over the most ridiculous of differences. Many bloody wars were waged over the “look” and decorations in the Christian churches (e.g. in England). Then, of course, there are the cartoons of “the prophet” that enrage the faithful to killing people.

I don’t have to remind any of us how strange human behavior often is. I think the key problem is with how you identify yourself. A good solid of dose skepticism, including your own notions, can be the start of real growth.

With reference to this “new electrologist being trashed,” I was commenting to how ALL of us jumped-in and posted all over the place (I did it too). Lots of posts … a whole lot … too many! Not that the content was nasty (or inaccurate) … but the amount of condemnation was a bit much. It felt like bullying to me. I stand by my statement.

And, I’m sorry for it. I think we have lost her and the two “multiple-needle” users too. If you think about it, it’s our loss. Look, if you know what you’re doing, no incorrect statement should get you too “harmed.” I’ve been in business for decades and people that don’t know me say that I “destroy the skin” and maybe even “kill people.”

F— it!

#5

Lessons have been learned through this experience. Mentally hardy people carry on and are not intimidated or run off by respectful disagreement.

#6

First time posting on the hair tell forum, I was thinking it was a forum where I can help hirsitute clients by answering questions as a licensed professional electrologist. I had no idea that my humble opinion would cause so much negativity. Not my intention at all. I am here to read and learn from others … clients, and other electrologists. I did not realize that giving someone advice from my point of view as a blend operator would be so upsetting to others.

With that being said, I AM OPEN to learn
ALL technics. (some ppl here are not open) but I am.

My perception is that this forum is open to discuss and find solutions to hair problems. A place where people with unwanted hair get information about ALL methods of hair removal and where other electrologist in the business can HELP clients and Help EACH OTHER. I didn’t know that my views as a Blend Operator are not allowed in the forum. If thats the case, its a shame because clients who have serious depression about there hair issues will never hear the opinion of another professional who uses a different modality other than what most of the electrologist here are… thermolysis operators. (btw, I am am not against this modality)

I am a positive person. I want to learn. I WILL continue to post and learn from other peoples point of view, and successes and be open to understand ALL ideas. I don’t mind if my professional views are different, I am successful at what I do, which is permanetly disabling follicles, and changing hirsute peoples lives for the better and helping with their self esteem. I care, thats why I’m here.

In regards to the original post on this thread, (nada personal para mi colega) I can see the over treatment on the darker complexion clients arm. Posting picture like that and saying Blend made this happen does a disservice to electrologist who use the technic correctly. Someone else can post pictures of over treated skin with pits, scars and spots and say "thermolysis results’ -Thermolysis works when the right person behind the machine is working. Likewise, Blend works when the right person is behind the machine.
As a blender, I could say that the Blend of AC and DC was not properly set for the clients skin type. This can happen to any client who sits with ANY electrologist (Thermolysis, or Blend) that doesn’t understand their machine, skin reaction, or currents.

This forum should bring us ALL electrologist together. HEY…!! ELECTROLYSIS WORKS WHEN YOU HAVE A GOOD OPERATOR WORKING THE MACHINE ! How about that concept?! I bet the laser technicians on here are laughing at all Electrologists here who are arguing over nothing.

On to positive things please… we are all professional adults here.

My week was AWESOME. I helped a ton of people. I have been very busy. So now I’m finally posting after a long work week (TGIF!). This week I worked on a new client, a 25 yr old male with back hair. He had thick course terminal hair that was previously treated with Laser with a reduction of 60%, and now I am doing the pickup work. 2 hours to clear his back. He is going to be so ready for spring break ! :slight_smile:

Today I also did a marathon session with a lovely client that lasted 2 hours and 45 min. It went by fast… body technic … using a good amount of HF and Galvanic together. Game plan is to clear and wait. I am happy to do this… its gratifying work… I love my job.

#7

AMEN

#8

I think that was Josefa’s point all along - even though she uses thermolysis to deliver great results for a variety of hair types, it would be unfair of her to generalize about the effectiveness of blend just because she has seen cases (like in the pictures she provided) where it was used incorrectly. So you two are on the same page.

#9

Bravo Gorillagal ! great to know everyone understands … I’m here and I’m happy to meet everyone on this site !

Greetings to all !

#10

13 post yeah ! I’ll be a HairTell Pro before you know it ! :slight_smile:

This place is a blessing to all who understand and learn from others… clients and professionals alike.

BTW Thank you for all the PM’s i have received. I am welcomed… and Thankful!

#11

I think that was Josefa’s point all along - even though she uses thermolysis to deliver great results for a variety of hair types, it would be unfair of her to generalize about the effectiveness of blend just because she has seen cases (like in the pictures she provided) where it was used incorrectly. So you two are on the same page. [/quote]

EXACTLY! that was the point of this post. Show that you can manipulate information to discredit a modality or another, according to your own convenience. The title was intended to be “sarcastic”. HF in any of its versions, can be as safe as Blend in any of its versions.

That said, I have absolutely nothing against SF, or Multineedle, everyone is free to express their preferences or their views. I am a fervent defender of freedom of expression, and I demand the same privilege. If SF has been intimidated or overwhelmed by my words, I offer my sincere apologies. Like blenders, I also know what the hell I’m doing when I use high intensities of HF.

#12

Of myths and “rules”

In the last couple weeks a few former students, now teachers and examiners, have been talking to me.

The question, in my mind, is … from whence do these ideas emerge?

“Rule 1” (Holland)… If you are doing blend, and you see “lye” bubbling out, that is dangerous because the lye will damage the skin’s surface (seems plausible). If you see this, immediately reduce the DC, or use a bigger needle."

The error is that the bubbling is largely hydrogen gas. The DC “froth” does not damage the skin (it’s good to see it) … and needle size effects the HF reaction; not DC!

“Rule 2” (Holland) … not actually a “rule,” but an examiner has noticed that with machines that make a “beep” sound (and they all do), students assume the treatment is finished … and they just tweeze out the hair.

“Rule 3” (New Zealand) … “Live Probing”: You have to start the DC before you add the HF, otherwise (because HF totally DRIES OUT the skin), if you start both currents together you won’t be able to get the DC to work at all. (This is an old rule … and probably largely forgotten?).

“Rule 4” (New Zealand) … You can’t use polished needles; you need “rough” needles so that the DC reaction (lye) will swirl around the imperfections on the needle. (Again, an old rule.)

Rules 3 and 4 were the brainchild of Neil Blok (a Dutchman living in NZL and Australia). No basis in fact.

He used to refer to me as “That NUTS of a Bono” (and other less complimentary terms too). I never met him.

Whenever I scheduled classes “down under” he would schedule his own meetings at the same time and same City … “rivalry,” I suppose? He seemed ready for some sort of war, and would not talk with me … I never gave him a “war.”

So there it is: “Blend vs. Blend!”

#13

“Rule 4” (New Zealand) … You can’t use polished needles; you need “rough” needles so that the DC reaction (lye) will swirl around the imperfections on the needle. (Again, an old rule.)

Written by makers of cheap needles :wink:

#14

Of course I “get it.”

Jossie, I would not be too quick to ascribe MOTIVE to a person’s beliefs. Most of the time they really believe what they are saying.

Especially new “graduates.” They are filled with great optimism and want to help … and want to give the whole world the information they have been taught! I think they’re sincere. It’s really kind of beautiful, really.

How can we expect much more … when they have been taught material that we know is not factual?

Here’s an example …

Last year I met a young woman (recent graduate) wanting to start her business. I told her that she can use my office for free, work on clients … get a good base of clients (money coming in) and then go forward with her own office. (I do this a lot.)

When she saw that I was using blend, she physically recoiled in horror! I could hear her “gasp!” She said, “How can anyone stand that? … Aren’t you ruining their skin?” She decided (I guess) not to take my offer because I never heard from her again.

So where did her ideas come from?

My point is that we should not assume MOTIVE with folks with bad ideas. Yes, sometimes the shit is deliberate … but most of the time it’s not … they simply have incorrect information. (Books, schools, other “gurus” in the field?)

#15

SFelectrolysis , first as I have related to you privately, I want you to both thank you and encourage you to carry on expressing your opinions in an attempt to help others. I’ve done the very same here on a number of occasions but no longer do so. I’m afraid I’ve largely given up.

Only a few here will even recognize this account. I’ve maintained it only to keep in touch with a few people here via private messaging.I want to let you know that beyond the vocal few who may cry out at the smallest of opinions, there are a number who work in the background to encourage open discussion of issues and support of issues. I think a few of them saw my avatar on the first day and immediately recognized my therapy dog mischief and immediately messaged to find out if it was in Fact Seana. Yep. And now that I’ve revealed that, I expect this account will disappear shortly.
I originally came here as a DIY’er. Some of the first advice I recieved as such was to work in galvanic first. I did and I talked about it on the forums here. I immediately had quite a few of the pro’s here in my face, because how dare I talk about galvanic being good for this and that and how dare an AMATUER talk about modalities. I remember posting a link to a site for an california electrologist who works in only galvanic, and immediately had several of them condemning this electrologists work and opinions, and discrediting photo’s from her site showing the empirical evidence of her assertations. It’s ironic, but I’ve seen some of these same practitioners 2 years later commending and recommending her work. The modality wars, have always been alive and well here on hairtell and I’m afraid you stepped right in the middle of that.There are a few very vocal people here who are fiercely defensive of their thermolysis or fast blend. Thermolysis is used a lot in this industry, because of the percieved speed of progress. Some can show spectacular results. Anything you say they feel is insulting to their chosen modality or is untrue or they think is being presented unfairly. will be quickly and fiercely challenged. There is definitely resistance to newcomers, and some resistance to any idea which doesnt exactly match their own. IT is what it is though. a thick skin and the ability to stand up for your opinions are a necessity if you are going to post and assist consumers on this site.There are some who will constantly push their own agendas or that of the AEA. Expect if you make any assertion on any modality, that if you dont have 6 papers and medical studies to back up any observation, that there are some here who will challenge that opinion.And some of those people are very vocal. Again a thick skin is the key.

Everyone here has their favourite technique or modality. Like yourself I do a lot of blend and some attempts at fast blend. I’ve seen spectacular results, not only on myself but on at least a dozen transwomen on which I also work. I’ve seen spectacular work done by other local electrologists I’ve interacted with who work in thermolysis alone too. You are deinitely correct that the skill of the practitioner is the most important.

I encourage you to assist consumers. There is a lot that can be done to inform and assist and I highly commend your motives. Dont let the turkeys get you down or deter you from this goal. Stand up for yourself.

Now, when I left this site there were quite a few that requested that I dont, or start a blog or forum somewhere to continue to offer advice and help with electrology. It’s taken some time, and for many I would point out I post as SeanaTg on reddit fairly regularly, and also occasionally on the blog of follikill.com but I have finally taken the advice offered, and I started a set of forums a few weeks ago. It’s taking a bit to get things going, but for those looking you can now find me over at http://electrolysisinfo.forumotion.ca/ . A few very knowledgeable familiar faces have joined me, and I’m proud to offer this resource on electrology. My copy paste works.

As always, the commission of crazy zapper people reminds you that all information is super top secret , and the commission will disavow any knowledge of this message or of electrology in general.This message will self-destruct in 5-4-3-2-1…

Seana

#16

Oh, my God, I have never tried to insinuate that SF had some MOTIVE. I just put an example of how you can draw the wrong conclusions from actual data.
I love the enthusiasm of this new member, she reminds me of myself years ago. I have no doubt that Hairtell readers and the profession in general will benefit from her kind contributions.

This is the time that new generations of electrologists receive the “baton”.

#17

Thank you all who I have made contacts with on this site this far. I will gladly accept the baton as a olive branch. Its my pleasure to be here, to meet all of you who help so many with their unwanted hair problems. I would be so happy to move on from the debate between our differences and start looking at what we all have in common.

with love from SF,

Lily

#18

Jossie, I suppose I was questioning this statement:

“EXACTLY! That was the point of this post. Show that you can manipulate information to discredit a modality or another, according to your own convenience.”

I read that as people having the intention of discrediting a modality by altering the facts …

Maybe it’s something “lost in translation?”

Manipulate: to control someone or something in a devious way.

Discredit: to make something appear wrong.

Convenience: making something easier or better for you.

#19

Yes, you have perfectly understood what I meant, but I was not explicitly accusing SFelectrolysis, but those who manipulate readers, using the malpractice of other colleagues to discredit a particular modality in order to make it easier or best for themselves. Such as this filthy trash:

http://hairzapper.com/thermolysis/

I have already apologized to the person concerned, but if this is not enough for you, I can ask that this thread be removed immediately.

#20

Yes Jossie, that was the galvanic practitioner I was referring to but deliberately not mentioning by name.Actually, you showed my point .Thank you and I’ll leave you in peace now.

Thick Skins to all! Opinions can still be valid without being nasty to enthusiastic newcomers.
Seana