Article: New Side Effect of LASER May Be Permanent.

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

New Side Effect of LASER May Be Permanent.

Reporting in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, Dr. Moshe Lapidoth of Rabin Medical Center in Petah Tikva, Israel describe 10 people in London and Israel who developed “reticulate erythema” after having one or more LASER hair removal treatments.

Temporary redness and swelling, as well as long-term skin discoloration and scarring, are known potential side effects of LASER hair removal. The condition reticulate erythema refers to inflammation and reddening of the skin in a net-like pattern that arises from the widening of small blood vessels near the skin’s surface.

According to the authors, patients have suffered the condition for up to 14 months with no sign of improvement.

Stating that this is the first time reticulate erythema has been linked to the procedure, Lapidoth indicates that all of the patients had hair removed with a diode LASER, apparently damaging some blood vessels in the treated area, causing nearby tiny vessels called venules to compensate for the damage by dilating.

“This is a unique, sometimes irreversible rash,” he said, noting that while some of the 10 patients in his team’s report have improved at this point, none has yet recovered totally.

It also appears that the side effect may occur mostly in people with a history of chilblains – itchy, red or purple bumps that develop on the skin in response to cold temperatures. Six out of the 10 patients described in the report said they had chilblains in the past.

Lapidoth and his colleagues advise that patients should immediately stop LASER hair removal treatments at the first signs of reticulate erythema. They also point out however that early signs of the rash could be “easily overlooked,” especially if non-medical staff perform the procedure.

#2

is there a link?

#3

To get that article online from the source I got it, would require a paid membership and password to a professional industry organization. Putting up a link would be useless in this situation.

Sorry.

But if you want to check out the orgainization, here is their public page. Unfortunately, this article is not one of the one’s they are giving away for free right now.

http://www.jaad.org/

#4

Has anyone seen any information on this from other sources?

#5

found it here: http://www.womenfitness.net/news/womens_health/sp_laser_hair_removel.htm

It’s dated Nov 2004

#6

Your other source is right here. This happened to me. On my stomach. And yes, the bruise-type blemish is still there. It formed after about the third treatment. The techs just looked at it and ignored it.

I, a medical school grad, made this statement on 12/28/05

The claims they made were false, and if anything, and most importantly, the RF component of the Comet can lead to premature skin aging, vascular disruption of the dermal capillary beds (it appears as bruising, and it looks ugly),

At the time I thought it more of an RF issue, but now this has clarified it for me.

And it was argued by, people with no scientific training whatsoever. As if posting to the internet can turn somebody into an expert. I made it on this thread:

High tech gimmick

Sometimes I’m just sickened by the way scientific common sense is just ignored here. And, yes, I’m considering posting pictures of the ugly marks as well.

Mantaray

Electrolysis people. Don’t play games with your health.

#7

This article is quite old ( more than 2 years old ) and it had to do with using the Lightsheer Diode on clients with certain skin preconditions. It has been presented in certain Dermatological meetings in the past. Nothing new.

#8

RF does draw moisture out of the skin so make your own conclusions. RF is not Laser.

#9

Even in the scientific community two years is not that old. Not enough to catagorize as ‘quite old’.

Mantaray

Most people that have read my posts here would agree that I can tell the difference between RF and Laser.

#10

So now you’re saying you got burned or received some kind of mark on your body from laser? May I ask why you haven’t mentioned it before somewhere among your 50 other posts talking about how dissatisfied you are with your Diode/RF? It seems hard to believe.

I personally haven’t had any negative effects on my skin. It’s actually perfect as opposed to all the marks and pigmentation from ingrowns etc prior to laser. For those who are not aware, I used an alex laser considered the best on the market for LHR.

There are lots of pictures of people with scars from electrolysis however. Unfortunate, but happens all the time. Even the top contributor on the electrolysis section just mentioned it.

WeRNotAfraid

Junior Member

Reged: 07/28/02
Posts: 79
Loc: Dallas
Re: Skin Damage, And The Treatment Of It [Re: Barbara_CPE]
#34500 - 07/29/06 11:57 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

Actually, I’m a transsexal and I’m only 26. Hormones have softened and thinned my skin some, but I am a long way from becoming old and wrinkled (I hope!) Again, don’t get my wrong, I love my electrolysis and I am almost done. However, I do think it left me with a little bit of skin damage. Some of it may be my fault, since I didn’t always follow the most rigorous after care regimen. However, I do think it’s hard to end up with perfect skin after having that much hair removal. Going 2-4 hours a week, week after week, for a long time would be pretty hard on anybody’s skin. The only problem areas are the upper lip and chin, which got the most heat and most treatment. My neck/sideburn area/back of neck/eyebrows look great, with no damage WeRNotAfraid

Bottom line?? I don’t think either laser OR electrolysis is healthy. The healthiest thing for your skin is to leave it alone. However, for those with major hair and seld-esteem issues because of it, it’s worth the trouble and some minimal risk. That’s why we’re all here. Honestly, Mantaray, if you think there is a 100% guarantee that you will end up 100% hairfree and with absolutely perfect skin, you’re setting your expectations a bit high again and will end up disappointed. I can almost see it in 1 year when you’ll be posting your analysis POST-treatment and your unmet expectations from electrolysis then as you turned it around with laser (Comet in your case).

#11

Lagirl,

This quote:

So now you’re saying you got burned or received some kind of mark on your body from laser? May I ask why you haven’t mentioned it before somewhere among your 50 other posts talking about how dissatisfied you are with your Diode/RF? It seems hard to believe.

verifies to me that you not only fail to understand the science, but the fact that I’m pointing out that I mentioned it earlier. Read it again.

This is what Andrea is trying to address here, that people are making unwarranted attacks. This is a forum that is supposed to help people, not blind them to dangers. You must understand the science behind this or cease to be so confrontational. I am clearly stating a firsthand experience of being harmed by a laser treatment, so that others can avoid this, and you are attacking/ confronting me as if what I’m saying is not true and I’m only saying it for inflammatory reasons.

I am so upset over still having the capillary disruption bruises, mentioning it here, again, only to have you come here say these things that area completely irrational, lacking any reason, that I really don’t see the point in interacting with you any longer in this thread.

For the record, electrolysis has given me complete hairlessness in areas done so far and I am OVERWHELMINGLY HAPPY with the results. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Andrea, I’m trying to be nice. I’m ending this post here.

Mantaray

#12

This quote:

verifies to me that you not only fail to understand the science, but the fact that I’m pointing out that I mentioned it earlier. Read it again.

I am clearly stating a firsthand experience of being harmed by a laser treatment, so that others can avoid this, and you are attacking/ confronting me as if what I’m saying is not true and I’m only saying it for inflammatory reasons.

And it was argued by, people with no scientific training whatsoever. As if posting to the internet can turn somebody into an expert. I made it on this thread:

High tech gimmick

Sometimes I’m just sickened by the way scientific common sense is just ignored here. And, yes, I’m considering posting pictures of the ugly marks as well.

I just reread your posts again. You did mention some kind of effect on one area on your skin and said you will post a picture. will you still do that please? does it look similar to what’s described in the old article above? are you sure you haven’t had a previous condition that resulted in similar effect on the skin as most of the other people in that study? do you think it was the cause of the diode or the RF component? do you know what settings on the RF and what settings of the diode part of the machine they used on you?

This was not a confrontational thread before YOU posted. You once again you made it that way by posting what is quoted above

– noone “without scientific training” argued with the ineffectiness of your treatments; I think you made it clear that your treatments were ineffective. what was said is that it is an EXCEPTION, not a rule.

–“common sense” was never ever “ignored” here. generalizations based on one personal experience with an ineffective laser, the Comet, is what is debated. the lack of common sense is on your part in assuming that what happened in your case is a rule, not an exception
—you’re obviously not unintelligent, so i don’t know why you keep playing word games. you stated “so other can avoid this”, “this” being laser hair removal in general, as well as adding a link and other discussion where you talk about ALL lasers and ALL laser hair removal being ineffective and causing side effects FOR ALL. THAT is not factual information. THAT is what I’m correcting. And you know it’s not, so yes, that’s an inflammatory remark because you’re stating something that you know is not true IN GENERAL.

–The confrontational misinformation you’re stating is basically everything you added AFTER actual factual information about your treatments, which noone is disputing. You do not know anyone on this forum personally or what training they have, so it’s not necessary to make those statements. THAT is a personal attack on other members.

All I’m doing is trying not to make it misleading to unsuspecting consumers reading this. You just started electrolysis. A couple months of treatments are not indicative of anything, with electrolysis OR laser. You also realize this, but choose to ignore it because it doesn’t support your argument.

here’s a part of what you wrote in that link above:

took special notice of the fact that as treatments went on, he and the other nurse that administered treatments would avoid making any real statements of substance. They never asked about progress. The general attitude was, ‘Let’s get going on this treatment. What do you want done today?’ Never anything asking about if I really did in fact feel as though there was hair loss occuring.

I also noticed that the clinic also didn’t seem as confident about their proceedures as time went on. They began to appear outright dodgy. I heard in the background once the receptionist arguing about a refund a patient was demanding. I heard a nurse trying to talk a patient into paying for a package deal when the patient first wanted to see proof. The waiting room was noticeably emptier as time went on.

Here, on December 28th, 2005, almost two full months after my fifth and last treatment with the Syneron Comet. Almost every bit of hair I had has returned. If there is any hair loss, it would have to be in the 5% range, and hardly enough to justify the $2500 I paid for the treatments. The claims they made were false, and if anything, and most importantly, the RF component of the Comet can lead to premature skin aging, vascular disruption of the dermal capillary beds (it appears as bruising, and it looks ugly), and an increase in skin dryness.

  1. I should mention that your statements about what laser can potentially cause are not proven by anything. Any research so far hasn’t shown any of that. So, consumers can decide for themselves whether it’s a possibility.

  2. “Bruising” is not normal. If you’re getting that after your treatments, something is not right. The only aftereffects of normal treatment is redness around the follicles for up to 3 days at most. Anything longer or more serious than that is a sign that settings are not set correctly.

  3. The laser this specific clinic uses (Comet) and the tactics you mentioned are exactly something customers should avoid when looking for an LHR clinic. All signs of their incompetence.

Comment on the Comet from another forum’s expert (smooth solutions owner) :

“Comet is a syneron laser. It is a diode with an RF (radio frequency) gimmick. As you can tell by my comment, I am not a believer in the RF part of the equation. How good is the laser? Well, a diode is OK but not as good as an alex or YAG.”

#13

Now that I have been quoted, I need to clear something up. I said my skin didn’t look its best around my mouth. I did NOT say I was “scarred” or anything like that. Nobody’s ever said anything about my skin to me, it’s my own impression based on looking at it closely in the mirror.

Despite my minor problems, I still have electrolysis and have yet to have any other problems with it. I had my eyebrows, fingers, neck etc done many years ago, and continue to have zero hair regrowth with no skin problems in these area. This is a far cry from my laser experience. Despite having tried 3 different ones with 3 different operators, I had 100% regrowth.

Even the worst skin damage from electrolysis cannot compare with the hideous 3rd degree burns and scarring laser can and has inflicted. People have gone blind and been mutilated for life by laser. This is in addition to the large numbers of people who did not respond. Now we find out laser might be causing permanent skin problems. Think about it, we really don’t know what else it’s doing in the skin, besides zapping the hair.

Between the two, I’ll pick electrolysis any day. The minor problems I’ve had are minimal compared to the permanent removal of all hair in the treated areas. Laser, on the other hand, left me red, burned (I still have a small scar on my back) and every hair pretty much regrew. I think Mantaray has a point, and I do NOT want my name used in an attempt to bad-mouth electrolysis or push laser. I am NOT scarred, and even if I had been it still would have been a better result than the so-called “wonders” of laser hair removal gave me.

#14

RF does draw moisture out of the skin so make your own conclusions. RF is not Laser.

Good point!

IPL is used to treat many conditions of dilated surface blood vessels, such as rosacea.

RJC2001

#15

This has once again become a useless discussion to discredit laser. Btw, noone has gone blind from laser hair removal lasers and burns are rare and caused by setting settings too high by inexperienced practitioners.

Once again, the whole point is that the consumer chooses for themselves what risks etc they’re willing to undertake and the only thing that bothers me here is unfairly exaggerating the risks of laser and downplaying the risks of electrolysis. By the same token, if people want to go fake-tanning 5 times a week, they can do that and many are, EVEN given all the research about how bad that is, which is NON-EXISTANT with hair removal lasers.

Just like you state your experience, I state mine as did others (hairlessinla, hairybastard, NoHair, RC2001, etc ) who got tired of typing the same thing over and over to these useless repetitive exaggerations. I have PERFECT SKIN after ONLY 5-6 laser treatments (depending on the area) with NO hair, no scars, no pigmentation – and I’m not an exception, it’s a RULE given knowledgeable techs, effective lasers, etc. The things you’re talking about are EXCEPTIONS and they’re pretty RARE. I have nothing but hairfree skin. However, I DO have some minor pigmentation from electrolysis on the upper lip. As you mentioned before, probing the skin continuously with a needle for months/years at a time is not the healthiest or the most natural thing to do to your skin. But I and you choose to do it. It’s OUR decision, just like it should be left up to the consumer to decide whether they want to undertake laser hair removal.

#16

I can’t believe that posting a simple article could become so darn controversial. I did not write the article, it apparently has been corroborated by others who have seen it, so I did not pull it out of my butt. Am I naive to wonder why one doesn’t just read it, and then just choose to believe or disbelieve it?

Would it make people happier if I put together a long winded talk about the dangers of electrolysis and how they happen? I mean, I believe that information is available on the site here, and we have explained how one can figure out pretty quick if you have had a bad treatment on one follicle, or your entire work area. We have also explained how it is that good work can be performed that avoids negative effects.

Really, I am at a loss.

#17

yes, I think it would actually help to put something like “risks of electrolysis” up. There is an overwhelmingly unequal amount of “risks” from LHR as opposed to risks from electrolysis on the forum recently, which makes the few people who didn’t get results from laser jump on the wagon of more laser-bashing. and talking about wasting money - there are more than a few people on the electrolysis forum who are seeking advice after they’ve spent a year or more with one electrologist and didn’t get results, and asking if they should switch electrologists. there are incompetent people in every industry and not doing research or realizing that the practitioner is incompetent early enough can lead to a waste of time and money, as well as possible scarring, with both laser and electrolysis.

#18

Can we talk? I mean, pardon me while I rant here.

One reason there are not as many electrolysis horror stories, is if you are getting poor work, you usually stop pretty quickly, and only a small area has been damaged. If one takes our advise and checks out everyone in town, and maybe down the road a stretch, one finds out the WIDE gap between the best available practitioner in your area, and the best ones (notice I said plural) in your area.

Here is where I get it coming from both sides.

Because I bleed to explain to you all what is possible, how to find the best available in your area, and how to evaluate your work, I am crucified in my own industry, while at the same time taking it from people saying that electrolysis is too slow to be a practical alternative to LASER. (Um, isn’t LASER actually an alternative to electrolysis? I mean this works in a which came first kind of way, right?) I have kooks spending money calling up other electrologists all over the world (I am not kidding, or exaggerating when I say ALL OVER THE WORLD!) trying to mount some kill James momentum. I can’t walk into a convention without being peppered with questions, dirty looks, whispers, and teachers admonishing their students to stay away from me. (Which only makes them invite me to the private party the teacher is not invited to.)

I tell you all here that you may live in an area where 100 hairs per hour is the fastest you may be able to find, and scabbing every appointment may be a fact of life… AND IT DOESN’T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. For this, I am attacked as well.

I tell you that it is possible to remove hundreds of hairs, even thousands of hairs in a single day, and still be able to go to work, and not spend time in a hyperbolic chamber in order to heal, and for that I get kicked as well.

When someone talks about their bad electrolysis experience, someone on here (ok, most likely me, because I type faster) explains exactly what happened, if we can figure that out from the strands of poorly worded clues we get here, and we guide the person on how to heal the area, and what their electrologist may do to avoid that complication in the future, and if it is an indication of incompetence, we advise continuing the search for someone good… if we do that, we get electrologists complaining that we are on a disinformation campaign and trying to either shut them down, or force them to buy outrageously expensive equipment they will never recoup.

All this makes me the devil. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> All this makes me someone trying to get everyone to see me. (Sorry, can’t fit you all in)

Do I think I am THE authority on electrolysis? Hell no. Am I out to make myself the first and last word in this industry? Couldn’t care less.

What I am is the second most frequent contributor to this site, and one of only two people still posting from the first year the site went up. Nothing more than someone volunteering time that could be spent doing other things, in order to help people I will never meet, never talk to in a direct way, and most important to some people, never make a buck on.

Do people travel to see me? Yes, but mostly when they have already ruined something and want someone to fix it.

Do people who have not ruined anything come to see me? Yes, and I always point out that the most practical thing in most cases is for us to establish some clearance, and they find someone to maintain what we get started once they get back home. Can I help it if some of them keep coming to see me instead?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />People, Elvis is going to go upstairs, sing Moody Blue and eat a few Peanut Butter and Banana sandwiches. No one is allowed upstairs but Prescilla, and Ann Margret. You all can enjoy the hospitality and play all the instruments in the studio, but I am not sure that The King will be coming down to the Jungle room tonight. Thank You Very Much

Good Night.

#19

I’ve had 3 treatments of the Aurora Elos laser on my face to get rid of unwanted peach fuzz and darker hairs around the jawline. Shortly after each session i noticed that i was breaking out in areas ive never broke out in before. I get very mild acne, like 1 or 2 at a time and its gone in 2 days. These breakouts have lasted over 2 months and im wondering if its from the laser. I haven’t noticed any reduction in hair and it actually looks as though i have more than when i started. I go back for another treatment tomorrow but i don’t feel great about it. My best friend is getting the exact same thing done and has noticed the same results except for the breakouts. If this next session makes me breakout again or if i dont notice even a slight reduction then thats it for me…i’ll wait til something better comes available.

#20

Thanks for posting that information,James. It is from a great source, too, and I don’t think it is old information in the sense that it is from two years ago. Mantaray, I think what Chris meant is that he first heard about this reaction happening to some people two years ago. James, do you remember that a poster a while back reported something like this when her mother had laser on her lower legs? I haven’t taken the time to search for this, but I think I’m right? This helps explain it now as I had no idea if that was related to being lased.

Again, being that this is consumer only website, anyone can post and share information, positive or negative, frequent contributer or first time contributer, about hair and hair removal. I’m always interested to learn like everybody else here!

Bearded lady, do you have darker skin? If you think more hair is being stimulated to grow, then I would think carefully about continuing treatments. It appears that darker skin tones have this problem and there are evidence-based articles to support this statement.

Okay, do I need to grab my helmut for saying this? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />