Apogee Elite

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

I am of middle eastern descent with olive toned skin. I am not too dark I believe. Probably a skin type 4. I have tried laser hair removal in the past with the lightsheer diode. I had 5 treatments done on my underarms, bikini, and 2 treatments on stomach. The stomach did not respond at all because of finer hairs. And I kind of knew that already, but decided to try it anywayz since she was offering me a deal. After five treatments on the underarms and bikini, I would say i still have about 80% hairs. I was really disappointed with my result, specially being a student and basically wasting all that hard earned money.

It’s been over a year since I haven’t got anything done in those areas. Someone from this forum has been kind enough to give me hope and loads of information. This time around, I am going to give the Cynosure Apogee EliteTM Laser a try. I have a consultation booked this friday. I am going to ask to get a test patch done. They charge $99 for underarms, and $99 for bikini area. Which seems reasonable.

Anyway, I wanted to know if you guys have any advice for me…or any questions that I should be asking at the consultation?

#2

I’m assuming that they will using the Yag side?? Right?? The prices sound great.

I would do electrolysis on your abdomen. Are your hairs thick, dense and dark on your underarms and bikini? Was there in reduction in the hair structure with those five LightSheer treatments? If the hair structure is smaller, then you may need electrolysis.

With the LightSheer, did they use compression. That is an important aspect in making this laser work well.

#3

The questions for consultation are at the link below. There is also a link for the FAQs which you should read if you haven’t already.

As I mentioned to you in private messages, please make sure to check out 3-4 clinics before committing to any one.

Also, when you go, ask for joules, pulse width and spot size that they’re using on your test spot and plan to use on you in general.

Dee, she’s a type IV or so, so it’s good for her to go with a place that has both an alex and a Yag, so they can test both to see what her skin can handle.

#4

So, an alexandrite can be used on type four skin with safety and effectiveness?? Wouldn’t she get burned?

Thanks.

#5

Type IV is in between dark and light. Skin types are not exact…they weren’t created for hair removal purposes. The skin needs to be tested to see how high of settings it can handle on an alex. Some type IV clients can handle high enough settings on an alex, others can’t. It depends on underlying pigment, tan, etc.

#6

OKAY…so I went for my consultation today. Before I went,I made sure to print off the consultation questions that you guys have put together. And I took it with me. Well first of all, I was very impressed by the way the “medispa” looked like. It was very clean,posh and upscale. That was a start. But there was no one else in there. Except a receptionist, who also happened to be the laser technician. First she sits me down for like half an hour, while she chats to her friend on the phone. I am thinking to myself like okay, when is the technician going to come out and get me?After she’s doing chit chatting, she introduces herself as the laser technician and takes me to another room.

Then I reached for my purse to get my questions out, as I told her I have lots of questions for her. Her eyebrow raised. But said “sure”. She got very offended when I asked her the question about “education, training and professional affiliation…” She thought it was not my business to know that and I should stick to questions relevant to laser. I thought it was relevant. But whatever.

She did not answer any of my questions. The ones that she did answer, were pretty vague. When I asked her about the wavelength, energy, pulse rate, spot size etc…she said she did not have the liberty to disclose that info…and i shouldn’t be asking her for it. But I said it’s my body, don’t u think I have the right to know? She’s like, “we can send it to your family physician if you want”. I told her my family physician has nothing to do with me getting my hairs removed.

Anyway, she was very rude. At one point, she asked me if I was doing this for a company? So I didn’t bother asking her anymore questions.

Then she goes, oh by the way, to do a test patch we charge $50. I told her I wasn’t aware of this. when I booked my appointment, nobody said anything about charging $50. She’s like, “oh im surprised they didn’t tell you…but yes we do charge $50”…She was soo full of crap.

I took my bag and left. It was a complete waste of time. Before I left, I told her…“now it makes sense why you’re both the secretary and the technician cuz you’re not busy…people don’t come back after being treated the way you just treated me…” she goes “oh no they’re VERY happy and they do come back”…I said “really?? is that why I am the only one sitting here for the past one hour…”

Anyway, it was a horrible experience. But onething she did say about the Apogee Elite was, that it isn’t much different or better than light sheer diode. It gives pretty much the same result, it just has a cooling agent. That’s the only difference.
She said the lightsheer diode is a very strong machine, and if I didn’t get much result with that machine, then I am probably one of those few people who don’t respond to laser at all.

I am not going to agree with her…and continue my search until i find the right place and the right person.

#7

oh and I forgot to mention…she said I was a type 3 skin. I thought I was a type 4.

#8

You’re doing the right thing. This is the type of place that most people should run from.

Type and model of machine is just one factor in getting results. If the technician doesn’t know what they’re doing, it doesn’t matter if they’re using the best machine out there. They will still not get you results. LightSheer is a decent machine IN GOOD HANDS. Apogee alex is a bit better just because it’s an alex and alex machines are more powerful. But in bad hands, it won’t deliver either. There are adjustable settings on all machines that need to be set correctly and there is an application technique that needs to be done right to get results.

If the hair is coarse and dense, you will get results, especially on each to treat areas like underarms and bikini that you’re treating.

#9

The previous laser place that I got my treatments at was using the gliding motion, not up and down. Is that the right way?

#10

I can understand her initial “raising eyebrows” reaction, but other than that she is full of crap.

In my opinion a place that makes you sit and wait while they talk with some friends on the phone is a no go. It is a lot of money and you could be taking risks in the wrong hand so why bother with someone that at least on a first impression doesn’t give a damn about you?

#11

ok so I just went for another consultation to a lady who is just starting to do laser. But she is been doing electrolysis for about two years now. And just starting laser. She works for a dermatologist in burlington, Ontario and she was trained by the doctor. She is also a health inspector by profession. Very nice lady…had much better experience at the consultation than the previous one I went to today. She actually came and picked me up from my home for the consultation and dropped me back off.
Ok so she uses the Soprano XL laser. And she did a test patch on me. Actually, she did my whole armpit for free. And here are the settings she used:

Wavelength: 810 nanometres

Repetition- 10

Energy : 8 Joules/cm2

Pulse duration: 10 milliseconds

Spotsize: she didn’t know the diameter of the spotsize.

She used the gliding motion. And asked me to tell her as soon as I feel “a warm wash cloth feeling”…to make sure I don’t get burned. I let her go over it until I could handle it and then told her…hehe

She seemed pretty honest, and not the type of person who was out to empty out people’s wallets. She has a nice house, and already a very good job. She is doing this just on the side. She is of Italian descent and she said I am just as hairy as she is. She showed me her arms and legs, that she had done only one treatment on. And it looked baby smooth. The hairs on her arm grew back like peach fuzz…That’s after one treatment. And I could not see it with bare naked eyes. She has to show me the regrowth under a magnifying glass. I mean that’s amazing.

She said to be patient with the shedding. Keep shaving but stop at about three weeks point…and then see. The shedding does happen, but it takes longer. And I should be very happy with the result.

I will update and let you guys know how it looks.

#12

The Soprano XL uses a 12mm spot size.
Couldn’t you handle more than 8 joules? She doesn’t need to do many passes, and we call it in-motion by the way.

#13

I could handle more…but she was being too careful. 10 is the highest isn’t it?

#14

8 joules is VERY low on a diode. I’m not very familiar with this machine’s settings, but on a LightSheer diode, anything under 25J or so with a relatively low pulse is pretty useless.

Different lasers are used differently. On LightSheer, gliding is not the best way to get results. Most don’t use enough compression and end up missing a lot of areas when treating, so up and down technique is usually better.

I wouldn’t go to someone with so little experience. She may mean well and is tring to build up her laser business, but that doesn’t mean she can get you results. That requires experience on any specific machine to learn what does best on it. Plus, she bought a machine that’s not the best on the market, which makes me wonder why.

#15

As i tried to explain you many times before, the Soprano XL is different from what you know, what she mentioned is SHR mode which means 10 pulses a second, so every second of the laser firing you get 80 joules and it goes as high as 100 joules a second.

You can also set it for small areas like between the eyebrows or upper lip for a single pulse mode like the LightSheer and then it goes up to 120 joules and you usually try to use it between 26-35 joules to get results.

#16

I am very hopeful about the Soprano for some reason. I have a good feeling that it will work for me. The laser technician is not experienced I know, but she is getting her training from a doctor who has an established practice in Burlington and she rents the machine from them like once a month. The good thing about this machine is that it’s pretty safe. There are very little chances of burning the skin. it’s not aggressive like an alex or lightsheer diode. And even she said, she has not yet seen anyone burn or blister on highest settings.

So i don’t know. It didnt hurt me to try. I didn’t have to pay for it. I have one armpit with five treatments of lightsheer diode. And the other armpit with five treatments of lightsheer diode and one treatment of Soprano. So Im going to wait and see the comparison.

#17

Hope doesn’t get results. So far, there aren’t any consumers reporting results with the Soprano on the forum. Hopefully, that will change as it’s a relatively new machine.

Your comment about this machine being less likely to burn the skin is completely inaccurate. Low settings on any machine will guarantee no burns. You need power to kill hair. And you need someone experienced to know how to find that balance between power and no burning for your skin type. If it’s free, then sure why not. But if you have to pay, I don’t understand why someone would spend more money to “try” something with so many question marks when they JUST wasted a bunch of time and money on ineffective treatments for the exact same reasons.

Odi, I am still trying to figure out if you really understand how lasers actually kill hair. You can’t add up those joules like that to assume it has the same impact on the hair as high joules to begin with (btw, I’m not sure that you compared pulse duration of the Soprano to other machines. I don’t think you’ll find much difference). It sounds like you’re repeating what the Soprano sales people told you to see the machine. So far, what we know for sure is that youre customers seem to need treatments every 4-6 weeks, which means their hair is not being affected permanently.

#18

Time will tell.

I honestly don’t see “many” questions marks there and maybe it isn’t 3ms pulse width but from what i understand 10ms isn’t so bad either.

And sure you can add up those joules, i didn’t make up that equation, the people who came up with the idea did. As i said before, the idea is to fry an area at the same time which is why this method works.

#19

So my laser technician just emailed me, and this is what she has to say:

“I am quite certain you will see some positive results on the test area. I am happy to hear that you have no redness or blistering. In all the treatments I have given I have not had any side effects like that. so that is good. I am hoping that you will see good results. As far as the settings on the various machines I don’t think you can really compare them, I think the true test is the results.”

So let’s wait and see.

#20

Zala, her response is also based on just “hope”. Experienced technicians don’t have to do that. You won’t be able to tell permanency anyway after 1 treatment. All you can judge by at this point is shedding. So that’s what you can wait for and see. All treated hair needs to shed within 3 weeks of treatment. If it doesn’t, nothing affected the hair.

I think you’re overly concerned with burns and not enough with results. Burning is no something you need to worry about at all when you go to someone experienced. Once again, the only way to get permanent results is to use high settings, and the only technicians who know how to do this well are those with lots of hands on experience because there is a certain balance that needs to be achieved when being aggressive and safe at the same time.

And yes, you can most definitely compare settings. That’s how we know what works and what doesn’t compared to 10 years ago for example.

Odi, you’re talking about two different things, which is once again why I’m concerned about your level of knowledge on the subject. One is pulse width and the other is pulse duration. 10ms pulse width is not 3ms, but it’s fine. What we were talking about is not the pulse width, but pulse duration. At least, that’s what you brought up. Now, you’re claiming that basically treating at a faster duration is somehow supposed to kill the hair any better. If you have any backup for this in terms of hard studies or evidence, I would love to see it (I’m not looking for anything sponsored or claimed by the Soprano manufacturer, which isn’t unbiased). If you just use common sense, I think it’s clear that applying a low setting multiple times at a fast duration still doesn’t impact the hair. Overall, the intensity of the heat doesn’t increase, and you need that to disable the follicle.