19 year old male. Severely depressed.

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#1

I feel hopeless. I don’t expect anyone to reply to this, but I need somewhere to vent. I know that Hairtell users would be able to grasp my problem better than anyone else out there. Don’t feel obligated to reply; I’m not looking for sympathy or anything in particular. I have never even written or said any of this in real life, I’m way too insecure about it. I really don’t care who knows anymore. I’ve kind of given up at this point.

After what I thought I was moving in a positive direction in dealing with my current problem, I’m currently in college and have been working my ass off to save the money for electrolysis (on top of tuition, rent, and other ‘life’ expenses). I’ve been obsessed with my body hair for the past four years of my life, and it has completely consumed me these past few months (as I assume my puberty and hormones have progressed).

I’m a 19 year old male with a native background. I shouldn’t have a single hair on my body. I’m covered from head to toe in black hair; be it vellus or terminal. I have thick, terminal hair all over my chest and abdomen; that alone has made me depressed, as I see my buddies who can’t even grow forearm hair able to swim and whatnot. I see the hair starting to get thicker and grow outward from just my abdomen area to my sides (on my ribcage). I have a pool and hot tub and cannot even enjoy them anymore because of my insecurity.

In the past year or so, I have also been ‘blessed’ with a surge in growth in my shoulder hair. I now have long and medium-thickness vellus hairs on my shoulders. I used to bleach them, but as of late, that will not work (there is too much and it is too noticeable). I have seen this hair creep from my shoulders onto my shoulder blades. My armpit hair is now making a little trail from my armpits to my shoulders.

Below my waist is a different story; I should have been born Italian and thirty years ago. My legs, bum, everything: black, terminal hair. I even have that little trail of hair on my lower back leading to my butt. I just looked in the mirror now (as I rarely do, I hate seeing my body) and have noticed the small trail of hair from the back of my neck connect with a small patch of vellus hairs that will, no doubt, start going terminal in the next year or two. The middle of my back has not seen any growth, but I can see on the sides (sides near my ribcage) that there are vellus hairs there too. Those will start growing with time.

I’ve even noticed thick “peach fuzz” hairs that cover my ears. I use a beard trimmer on these to keep them as short as possible. I don’t think people understand that when I say I’m covered, I’m COVERED. Be it in vellus or terminal hair (like said before).

I’ve personally dismissed being happy with someone else. I can’t even look at my own body in the mirror, let alone share it with another person. This depresses me alone beyond belief. I’ve begun to miss out on the summer pool parties, and any kind of themed party where any kind of ‘skin’ is shown. These are obviously some of the most fun because they involve themes and whatnot. I don’t take off my shirt at the gym or anything. I’m not overweight whatsoever (I have an athletic body type and am in great shape). I obsess over whether or not my sleeves on my t-shirts are showing some of the vellus hairs that are creeping down my shoulders.

I don’t know what else to do. My dad is not hairy whatsoever. My grandpa on my mom’s side is (absolutely covered in hair, I expect I’ll be like him…), however, and my mom is a little hairier too. I don’t know where I have inherited this much hair from unless it’s from my grandpa.

I’ve definitely toyed with the idea of suicide before. I’m sorry for being so extreme, and I know this may seem like a petty problem, but I can’t even begin to explain the magnitude of an effect it has on me. I mean, who wants to sit through what could be potentially thousands of hours of electrolysis? I don’t even want to think about laser in fear of worsening my situation. I’ve been to my doctor and she has always turned me away. She said I am depressed (this is obvious), and would not listen to me when I suggested hormone tests or pills to block androgens to prevent further growth. I don’t know what else to do at this point. I’m driving my friends, family, and everyone in my life away because of a problem that I can’t even control.

I feel helpless and really want this all to end.

Thanks.

#2

If you think coarse hair, laser will be a godsend. Since you’ve already convinced yourself to not do laser out of the fear of inducing growth in areas that no one has ever reported a single case of induced growth in those areas ( namely, chest, arms, and legs), your only option then would be all those hours on the electrolysis table. Honestly, your best bet is to laser the areas that have thick coarse hair and leave electrolysis to the rest.

#3

Reading your post, I can not help thinking of my dear Norwegian boy. Please Connor, thinks that if he has done it, so can you. He only has 24 years, and almost every hair on his body have been eliminated. Just two years ago, he must have felt as you feel now. Check out his diary, your appearance can not be worse than his prior Electrolysis.

#4

Your post sounds exactly like my own story, you can read it in this forum, probably right next to your thread. I actually am Italian, so I know what you mean. I won’t lie, the thought of suicide appeared a few times in my head but later on I realized how ridiculous that would actually be.

You can PM me if you’d like to talk, trust me when I say we’ve been in the same exact situations.

1 Like
#5

I have seen a number of reported stimulated growth in these exact areas. I have seen reported stimulated growth on all areas! I am even the ‘perfect’ candidate. I have extremely pale skin in the winter months with coarse, black, terminal hairs. I want to treat these with electrolysis (if I even end up pursuing treatment now) and avoid laser because I have seen Michael Bono’s speculations about a supposed “delay” in the telogen phase for hairs prior to laser treatment. I do not want to delay this for a potential few months and receive extremely ineffective electrolysis. I hear it produces very patchy end results.

Thank you so much for your kind words Josefa; your work is inspiring and I have been following it (and your YouTube channel + website) for a few years now! I only wish I had the money to start treatment right away (and skip this summer out of embarrassment). I don’t have terminal hairs all over my body, but I also do not want to induce further growth by treating vellus hairs with electrolysis. I have looked at a number of your postings and stories (they are so inspiring!!!) and only dream of achieving the same results one day.

Hey man, and yeah – I did check out your story. We seem to have been blessed with the same curse. I’ve been depressed for a few months now in general (hair aside, other problems), so the idea of suicide has not been foreign for me for the past little while. I’m trying to stick around namely for my mom, I couldn’t put her through it. I try to fight the good fight, but it’s very tough when there’s little to be positive about in our world. I appreciate your kind words. I wish you all the best in your endeavors. :slight_smile: And for sure! Likewise, if you need to talk – I’m here for ya.

#6

Then please share the links to each body part experiencing induced growth on a male that has thick coarse hair in those areas. But for the record, I have not a read one single reported case of a male experiencing induced growth in an area containing thick coarse hair. Induced growth on males generally has only happened on the upper arms/shoulders and where the hair is fine. If you don’t believe me, here is a quote from a laser tech that used to post on the forum:

“You will not get IHG [induced hair growth] on your legs”

Patchy results only occur with incompetent laser techs. You’re in Toronto – there are plenty of recommendations on the forum from people in Toronto who got permanent results with laser. Really, a solution to your problem is right in front of you. It’s frustrating you won’t take advantage of it. You said you want all this to end… then go take care of it! I’m sorry if this is sounding harsh, but I was in your place years ago. Let me show you my own results –

Before: http://oi44.tinypic.com/9ih3wi.jpg
After Pic 1: http://oi42.tinypic.com/f0ahlc.jpg
After Pic 2: http://oi40.tinypic.com/uojuv.jpg

Honestly, if I hadn’t done laser, I’d be in the same position now in the areas I did electrolysis on (namely my face) – I just would be much further behind on my arms and legs. and that’s a lot of hair and surface area to cover. The choice is ultimately yours.

#7

Brenton, I have spoken with edokid (not sure if you remember him, he was on here a few years back) and he was from the Toronto area. He has given me his laser clinic’s number. I read in the ‘Diary of a Scandanavian guy’ who did Alexandrite lasers on his chest and arms and had even more growth!

I have tracked down an Alexandrite laser clinic in Toronto (the one that Lee – edokid – used years back), but after reading his diary (Josefa did hundreds of hours of work on him), I was too scared to do laser.

How old are those pictures? I am obviously interested, but I am so sick of being indecisive. Did you treat with electrolysis after? How many treatments was that? What laser did you use? Did they use a “grid” system on you? What areas did you get treated?

I’m sorry for all of the questions. I’ve done a ton of research but obviously the line between what should work theoretically and what results to actually expect are two entirely different things.

Thank you for your posts. They are encouraging.

#8

Yes I remember edokid. I don’t remember what happened to him, but yes I remember him. You have to remember in the diary (and I didn’t see this, but you can point it out to me if I missed it), but I didn’t see what settings were used. In general, it’s hard to find a clinic that will use strong enough settings to get result. I get treated at a dermatologist’s office so it’s different than a medical spa thing.

The picture of my arm being hairy was about 3 years ago. The after pictures I took this morning so I could show you. I have not treated with electrolysis on those areas after. There are other more important areas that laser won’t do well on me on that I’m treating with electrolysis. I’ve been dong electrolysis on my face and will be moving into my back now that my beard is almost completely gone. My legs also have fantastic results. Areas I treated that have finer hair (I had not found this forum at the time so I treated finer hair as well) did not respond as well. I did not get induced growth but I didn’t get a reduction in those areas. The laser I used was a Gentlelase at 18mm/16J. It’s by far my favorite laser to be treated with.

This is a woman who does electrolysis in your area and posts regularly on the forum: http://northlondonelect.com/

My best advice to you is to do laser on the areas that will respond well at the clinic edokid used, and work with Carmella to do other areas that you know right off the bat won’t respond well.

#9

I spoke with him through his YouTube channel a couple of weeks ago, actually. That’s how I was able to secure the recommendation.

Here is a picture of my right forearm right now: http://i.imgur.com/nGx9Jvk.jpg

Do you think this hair would respond well to a Cynosure Apogee Elite? Edokid even recommended me the laser tech that treated him and said she was thorough and he has received awesome results. I just want to be sure that I will not experience any additional growth; I don’t want to be further shamed by this.

As for electrologist recommendations: thank you! I have spoken with Carmella over these past few weeks and we have been emailing back and forth. I go to school in London so I, unfortunately, won’t be able to start steady treatments until I go back to school. I plan to, however, start treatments and treat the desired areas aggressively throughout the school year (I may end up staying in London next year to pursue further treatment… who knows?) I need to be religious about this and plan accordingly. I hope Carmella is up for the monstrous journey. I will, of course, document with many pictures.

Thank you for your treatment parameters as well. I think I may set up a consultation with the laser clinic in Toronto later this week. I’m not sure if I can’t read or what, but how many treatments did you get on your forearms? I see you said you also got great results on your legs: was this with electrolysis or laser?

#10

The apogee elite has both an alex and a YAG part. Since you’re very pale, I can guarantee they will pretty much use an alex on you. On that laser, if they’re using a 15mm (and they should), you want it as close to 25J and as low as 5ms on the pulse width as possible. That’s the max on this machine. There’s a good chance they won’t go to max, but as long as they’re near there, you’ll be fine. I’m not crazy about the laser, but that’s because the person who did my treatments used poor parameters. I’m sure if the settings were higher, it would’ve been fine. Edokid knows what he’s talking about. Also, looking at your arm, there is no way in hell I’d expect to see any induced growth whatsoever.

Carmella is wonderful. I have only talked to her on the forum, but I have the utmost trust and respect for her expertise. By the end of next school year, you will have come a long way.

So for my forearms, I started at a place that used crappy settings because I didn’t know anything about that, so I had about 8 treatments that did nothing. After that, I went to a dermatologist’s office recommended on the forum that is about 1 hour, 15 minutes away. The after pictures are from about 4-5 treatments at good settings (I forget the exact number honestly). My legs have had about 5 treatments I think (again, can’t remember exactly but about there) with laser. I knew my arms and legs would respond well, so I decided to do laser there and let an electrologist focus on other areas I wanted gone soI could kill more hair in a shorter period of time. That way by the time my electologist would get to those areas I treated with laser, a lot of the hair would be long gone.

#11

Yeah… the YAG reaches further into the dermis, yes? Would that reach deeper rooted hairs? I can always get a base tan in order to use the YAG part of the laser? Or would I be best off just using the Alex part of the laser?

Here is a picture of me with a tan, just to show you how dark I can get.

I apologize for the context of the picture, but that’s one of the only ‘clear’ pictures I have of me with a darker tan. Would it prove ineffective to try and also use the YAG part of the laser?

Should I look for a GentleLase? I was always under the impression that the Cynosure Apogee Elite was the absolute best laser on the market, so that’s what I looked for. I have not brushed up on my laser knowledge, however, so I can’t be so sure at this point.

How long apart did you wait to have your arms and legs lasered? At this point, those were areas that I was also interested in having treated. As for your beard (you say you’re nearly done?!), did you use electrolysis or laser? I would think that it would be quicker to use laser in the beginning, and then use electrolysis to treat the remaining hair? Would the laser get rid of the bulk of the hairs and then further reduce the thickness of the remainders? Sorry for so many questions, your knowledge is extremely valuable.

Thanks Brenton!

#12

Oh no, definitely don’t tan. You can use a YAG on lighter skin as well, but the alex wavelength is much more effective at disabling hair, so if you can handle an alex on strong settings, you should go for that. The Gentlelase is just a preference of mine, but honestly, the apogee is a fine laser. If that clinic edokid recommended will use strong settings on you, stick with them. I don’t know how prevalent the Gentlelase is in Toronto, but finding one may be hard, and then finding one that someone will use at good settings may be even harder. You have a great recommendation from somewhat who got great results, so I’d follow his advice. Apogee Elite comes highly recommended on this forum along with Candela laser (the company that makes the Gentlelase).

Arms I waited around 2 months, legs around 3. You’ll be able to look at yourself and determine when you need to go again. Since I had to drive pretty far, I would usually just wait until my legs needed to be treated again and then do my arms and legs together both at around 3 months. Nothing bad happens with waiting a little longer.

Yes I am nearly done with my beard. Last week I didnt’ shave at all. This week I will shave one small spot on my neck since we didn’t get to that area, and that will be it for the weak (no shaaving cream needed – just about 2 seconds with a razor blade). I started with laser and then switched to electrolysis. Laser got rid of my shadow, but as it turns out (and there are multiple electrologists who can vouch for this) my hairs were DEEP. Even with laser at high settings, it wasn’t enough. In fact, my current electrologist told me at one point that her electrolysis probe wasn’t even long enough to get to some of my hair. Eventually we were able to get it by squeezing the skin and whatnot, but it was definitely a tough job. What I’ve read from people who transitioned that the general consensus for facial hair was to have laser treat the bulk of it (it will hurt like ALL HELL btw… I got to have numbing injections and it still hurt like crazy) and then have electrolysis to finish it off. Of course, everyone has their own opinion on things, but my case for facial hair was a bit different than what a lot of people typically would experience.

Btw, you’re also quite handsome so you have no reason to be depressed. One piece of advice: it will look a bit odd if you have hairless arms but have hair on your chest. That’s what I have now. I ultimately have my shirt on all the time and no one really notices, but if I took my shirt off in public, it would probably look a bit weird. Just keep that in mind based on the order of areas you have removed (e.g. hairless legs + hairy chest = odd.) If you’re wearing clothes all the time, it doesn’t really matter, but just something to think about.

#13

Okay, I just assumed that the wavelength of the YAG and the Alex together would provide even better results. I found a CoolGlide in my own town, so I wouldn’t have to travel to Toronto. I would obviously prefer the superior laser, regardless of distance. Would you go for the Apogee Elite or the CoolGlide (both Alex lasers)?

Okay perfect, I can also always provide pictures and ask around when my ideal treatment date would be if I’m unsure myself.

That’s amazing! I’m surprised. You seem to be going down the route that I would ultimately want. How long has beard removal taken for you? Also, would you mind disclosing how much you have spent in total on your laser treatments? I know this would vary from country to country, clinic to clinic, patient to patient, but I’m looking at a ballpark area for how much I should be saving. I would love to have my beard reduced, even just to remove the shadow – I like my facial hair. I have a nice even beard, I just wouldn’t want to make it patchy…

As for my depression. My depression stems from a couple of things, but my being hairy is just another reason that ‘adds’ to the depression. I’m unable to see why another person would find me good looking, but I’m guessing that’s because my perception of self is a little distorted. I’m now aware of why anorexic girls (merely for example) look in the mirror and see “fat” or “ugly”. I see the same thing (but obviously within a different spectrum). I also don’t go swimming or anything in public, and I have never taken my shirt off in front of my roommates. I rarely wear t-shirts and have vowed not to really expose much skin until I get my entire body under control (or certain areas like my arms and legs.) I’m pretty good at concealing it, but it’s wearing on me. Just like it does to everyone else.

I look like I’m relatively hairless in the picture above because I spent hours shaving, waxing, bleaching, trimming, blending my hair all over my body. That was at my school’s “after prom” – so little clothing was worn the entire weekend. I had to be sure that none of my hair would come back to haunt me.

Thanks Brenton, I appreciate all of your help.

#14

Well the apogee elite will only fire one of the wavelengths at a time. There is a certain apogee machine that will fire both simultaneously, but you really only need one. Coolglide is a YAG, so if you can handle an alex, you would be much better off going for that. I’d take the apogee elite on the alex side with strong settings over a YAG.

So, the beard is an interesting story. From electrolysis and maintaining a schedule, my beard basically went from a full beard down to this in about 8.5 months (plus a 3-week vacation, so really a lot closer to 7-7.5 months). The cost for my beard has been hard to keep track of honestly. As for other parts, my legs have been $350/session and my arms $175/session. I spent close to $3500 on poor treatments since I didn’t do enough research. If I had, I would’ve spent much less… if I started with the dermatologist I’ve been seeing, LHR on the arms and legs should have come out to <$3000 for effective treatments.

Reducing the beard with laser needs to be done carefully cause the beard can and often does grow back patchy. If you like your facial hair and want to keep it (but reduce it), I’m sure Carmella can work on that with you. I think you should first focus on body hair before facial hair as that seems to be bothering you more.

#15

Oh, yes! Sorry, I didn’t clarify – I meant using the Alex and then the YAG settings at different times, but after your post, I think I’ll just stick with the Alex.

And amazing! Ah, I want to reduce the amount of times I need to shave too, that would be awesome. Are you going for 100% removal? But thank you! That number isn’t so bad, but then again, we’re entirely different cases. I’m expecting to be 10-20K in the hole once I have the ‘body’ I want haha (ie: a fish! Hahaha).

And yes, Carmella also has a Soprano XL, so it’s nice that if I decide to use laser, I can stick with the one practitioner (who is also very passionate about her clients and results.)

Anyway…

I’m wondering if anyone would be able to chime in on what kinds of treatments I’ll need, where. I have taken pictures of my entire body basically. I have an idea of where I’d want laser and where I’d want electrolysis but I just want to be sure. I’ve heard of Michael Bono saying that certain areas with just electrolysis would be way easier than complicating the process with introducing laser, so I’m looking for second opinions.

Here is the link to the “gallery”: http://imgur.com/a/IIcgc

Can I get some guidance on where to treat with what?

My biggest concern right now are my forearms. I have a consultation booked at the laser clinic that edokid used (in Toronto) for next week. I want to potentially get my forearms treated (not my biceps – I have growth there but it’s fine and sparse!) as well as my armpits for the reduction. I know my armpits would react perfectly to the laser, but what about my forearms? I’m looking at a 75-90% reduction on my forearms, and probably a 75-80% reduction on my armpits.

Any other recommendations for other areas?

#16

Connor_15, I know EXACTLY how you feel. All of my body was also totally covered in hairs… just ask Josefa :wink:
I also used to obsess whether it was possible to see my hairs when I wore a t-shirt in the summer.

You have come to the right place. I know people will guide and help you through it and you will get rid of your problem.

#17

Don’t worry – after I do the rest of my body with electrolysis once I finish laser, I’ll be around 10-20K in the hole as well lol. Personally the soprano XL has a number of negative reviews, but I think a large percentage of that is from clients who had practitioners who didn’t know how to use it. It’s a more difficult laser to use. I’m sure Carmella knows how to use it properly, but I still say you’d be better off with an alex laser at good settings. I certainly hope she will give her opinion though!

For your body, I’d say your arms and legs would work well with laser. Your back (including the neck) and stomach needs electrolysis. The dense parts of your chest will do well with laser and the finer parts wouldn’t.

#18

boy1989, I saw your diary! So inspiring. That’s EXACTLY what I want done! Did you end up getting any effective treatments from laser at all? I’m only going to laser in the coarse areas, but I’m still nervous for induced growth. I think I should be fine, however.

And Brenton, the money doesn’t matter though – am I right? The satisfaction and boost in confidence that hair removal provides is priceless. I used to be religious about electrolysis treatments and I always felt amazing coming out of a treatment. The satisfaction of being a ‘smoothie’ was unparalleled! The money, to me, is merely a medium to get to where I want with my treatments, it is nothing else.

But thank you for all of your help! I think I’m going to end up lasering my forearms, armpits, chest (not abdomen), legs and buttocks. Those areas all seem like they would respond very well. My forearms may thin out a little quickly so I may only be able to do 2-3 treatments on them before the Alex laser becomes ineffective.

#19

I’m happy to hear that :slight_smile:
To be honest, I don’t think the laser treatments gave me any reduction at all. I could have thrown the money out the window or flush them down the toilet and had the same “results”.

Remember, this is just my experience.

In my opinion the electrolysis treatments is actually a very liberating experience. When you see that the hairs you have struggled with for so long gets killed and taken away from your skin like butter… It is VERY satisfactory!
If Josefa was working on an area that was difficult to see, she would provide me with a mirror so I could see her killing the hairs :smiley: How I loved the sight! I imagine it is better than therapy, haha!

#20

Look at this site. That helped me a lot to accept my hairy body at least partially. Gay and hetero boys that show their hairy body with a high level of self confidence.

http://www.google.de/imgres?q=hairy+body&um=1&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=643&hl=de&tbm=isch&tbnid=vv_C175ZYp-h7M:&imgrefurl=http://www.flickriver.com/groups/554850%40N23/pool/interesting/&docid=mJ-9R15fuE_CyM&imgurl=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5187/5680889638_80d2f9a99c.jpg&w=328&h=500&ei=ylK3UfqhD9GKswaZn4GABg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=751&vpy=184&dur=150&hovh=277&hovw=182&tx=113&ty=182&page=1&tbnh=154&tbnw=101&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:102